I have yet to meet a black conservative who wasn't an asshole.

/FTFM

Michelle Bernard is pretty hot. She's a republican,writes for Townhall and is a big Obama fan.

Ron Paul Revere: I've yet to meet a white liberal who wasn't a pedantic, push-over pantywaist.

See? Stereotypes are fun!

I've yet to meet a person who stereotypes that wasn't a smug, self-centered, goat-farking know-it-all.

Oh, c'mon. Not voting for Obama would be like kicking a puppy.

Ron Paul Revere: Unright: I've yet to meet a person who stereotypes that wasn't a smug, self-centered, goat-farking know-it-all.

I can't say you're wrong about me, but it's not nice to call your mom a goat. She did bring you into this world.

uh, I'm not the guy from Sportscenter..

"I don't necessarily like his policies; I don't like much that he advocates, but for the first time in my life, history thrusts me to really seriously think about it," Williams said. "I can honestly say I have no idea who I'm going to pull that lever for in November. And to me, that's incredible."

Translation: The only reason I am even considering voting for him is because of his skin color.

/MLK Jr. would be so proud.

Crosshair: "I don't necessarily like his policies; I don't like much that he advocates, but for the first time in my life, history thrusts me to really seriously think about it," Williams said. "I can honestly say I have no idea who I'm going to pull that lever for in November. And to me, that's incredible."

Translation: The only reason I am even considering voting for him is because of his skin color.

/MLK Jr. would be so proud.

I think MLK would say something along the lines of "Whatever it takes to get the better man elected." Because clearly the better man in this election is not McCain. The only way he wins in November is if the slack jawed yokels come out in force this November to vote against the scary black man. So if a few of the so-called black republicans swing over because of race, I think MLK could deal with it.

Tor_Eckman: I think MLK would say something along the lines of "Whatever it takes to get the better man elected." Because clearly the better man in this election is not McCain.

It isn't Obama either. I highly doubt that MLK would even give Obama the time of day. MLK wouldn't be so dumb as to think that because one candidate sucks, the other MUST be better. The reality, both candidates suck. Neither is "the better man". Both are politicians who will say and do whatever gets them votes.

MLK wanted people judged, "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." It seems like that message has been lost for the most part.

Don't Tase Me Bro: I have yet to meet a black conservative who wasn't an asshole.

/FTFM

Fine. I'm a Buddhist too, does that help?

Jerk.

*kicks sand*

Crosshair: Translation: The only reason I am even considering voting for him is because of his skin color.

That does really appear to be the import of what the speaker is saying.

Crosshair: It isn't Obama either. I highly doubt that MLK would even give Obama the time of day. MLK wouldn't be so dumb as to think that because one candidate sucks, the other MUST be better. The reality, both candidates suck. Neither is "the better man". Both are politicians who will say and do whatever gets them votes.

MLK wanted people judged, "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." It seems like that message has been lost for the most part.

You are en fuego this morning.

Ron Paul Revere: I enjoyed your beating death story. Great writing.

Thanks. Still on the query trail for the first and second novel. Enlisting the girl critter as secretary on that grind.

I hardly think Alan Keyes is conflicted about not voting for Obama.

Crosshair: Translation: The only reason I am even considering voting for him is because of his skin color.

Not done being utterly retarded after claiming that Obama wasn't filling sand bags in Iowa, huh? Well, keep it up there slugger.

Ron Paul Revere: Crosshair: I highly doubt that MLK would even give Obama the time of day.

MLK's socialist agenda makes Obama's platform look like Margaret Thatcher's. His complaint would be that he wasn't going far enough.

This. If you don't think MLK would support Obama in this campaign, you're crazy. MLK was extremely far left economically in addition to being socially liberal.

Crosshair: . I highly doubt that MLK would even give Obama the time of day.

"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day."-MLK

You think this guy wouldn't give Obama the time of day? WOW!

Black republican. And he will NEVER get my vote. Never.

gruntmints

Black republican. And he will NEVER get my vote. Never.

In addition to that, John McCain will never get my vote either. What a wonderful country, I have nobody I can vote for in good conscience!

All eight black conservatives are conflicted by the Obama campaign

gruntmints: Black republican. And he will NEVER get my vote. Never.

Uh... Why?

I find it interesting that most people don't realize that most blacks were republicans until the late '50 and early '60. Southern white democrats were entrenched in the KKK. One of the oldest ongoing political organizations in the south is made up of black texas republicans. My older brother is in it. My whole family was republican until the civil rights movement. It was white northern democrats who pushed things in a different direction and one lone southern democrat (LBJ who was considered a trator by many in the south) who finished the job.

This is a simplistic political view but it was meant as such.

/i was a republican until 1999.

Ron Paul Revere: Duh. He's black.

Black man doin his muthafukin' thang in the world baby, ya feel me?! (new window)

gruntmints: gruntmints

Black republican. And he will NEVER get my vote. Never.

In addition to that, John McCain will never get my vote either. What a wonderful country, I have nobody I can vote for in good conscience!

My brother tried to get me to vote for Huckabee. That was an interesting conversation.

Ron Paul Revere: Yeah, it would have nothing to do with the fact that real conservatives aren't buying John McCain's flip-flopping, pancake-loving schtick. Not in the slightest.

Yeah, except that TFA and TFQuote completely contradicts that.

blade1228: I find it interesting that most people don't realize that most blacks were republicans until the late '50 and early '60. Southern white democrats were entrenched in the KKK. One of the oldest ongoing political organizations in the south is made up of black texas republicans. My older brother is in it. My whole family was republican until the civil rights movement. It was white northern democrats who pushed things in a different direction and one lone southern democrat (LBJ who was considered a trator by many in the south) who finished the job.

This is a simplistic political view but it was meant as such.

/i was a republican until 1999.

I admit its something I dont understand. The republican party was founded on the cornerstone of freeing the slaves. They appointed the first Black person to a cabinet level position, Supreme Court etc. And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat? Not saying that Republicans have always been pro-Black, but certainly neither has the Democrats. The only former KKK member still in Congress is a Democrat...the Republicans have done a pretty good job purging those people from their ranks.

/honestly dont get it

Don't Tase Me Bro: I have yet to meet a black conservative who wasn't an asshole.

/FTFM

I was sitting at the Tobacco Shop on the night that Tim Russert died when a kind, compassionate Conservative patron of the shop decided to let everyone know how glad he was that Tim Russert was dead because he was a Liberal and (spoiler alert) Liberals have destroyed America. Now I'm all for mocking the death of a celebrity, but to flat-out claim that their death was justified because of their political views is just disgusting.

/Conservatives are assholes.

IStateTheObvious: I admit its something I dont understand. The republican party was founded on the cornerstone of freeing the slaves. They appointed the first Black person to a cabinet level position, Supreme Court etc. And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat? Not saying that Republicans have always been pro-Black, but certainly neither has the Democrats. The only former KKK member still in Congress is a Democrat...the Republicans have done a pretty good job purging those people from their ranks.

/honestly dont get it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: I admit its something I dont understand. The republican party was founded on the cornerstone of freeing the slaves. They appointed the first Black person to a cabinet level position, Supreme Court etc. And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat? Not saying that Republicans have always been pro-Black, but certainly neither has the Democrats. The only former KKK member still in Congress is a Democrat...the Republicans have done a pretty good job purging those people from their ranks.

/honestly dont get it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

So Richard Nixon recognized that a Republican would never get more than 20% of the Black vote, so he wrote off even trying to get their vote and pursued the white votes?

Call me crazy, but that seems pretty reasonable, even if it did appeal to some racists. If they arent going to vote for you regardless, why waste time and money on trying to get that vote?

Basically, this Southern Strategy came about AFTER Republicans lost Black support. So it really doesnt address WHY they lost that support.

Thanks, ClicheGuevara. My dad and I spent the weekend talking highly about Tim Russert because we thought he was pretty fair and didn't dodge hard questions all the time, and actually listened to guests before pouncing.

Remember the pounding he took for not setting up a teeball stand for Hillary to swing at.

But, I guess your anecdote about conservatives trumps them all. Hm. Oh well.

Wait until you see the RNC if you want to see a bunch of brothers on stage!

/Number of Black Republicans in congress = 0

IStateTheObvious: attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: I admit its something I dont understand. The republican party was founded on the cornerstone of freeing the slaves. They appointed the first Black person to a cabinet level position, Supreme Court etc. And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat? Not saying that Republicans have always been pro-Black, but certainly neither has the Democrats. The only former KKK member still in Congress is a Democrat...the Republicans have done a pretty good job purging those people from their ranks.

/honestly dont get it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

So Richard Nixon recognized that a Republican would never get more than 20% of the Black vote, so he wrote off even trying to get their vote and pursued the white votes?

Call me crazy, but that seems pretty reasonable, even if it did appeal to some racists. If they arent going to vote for you regardless, why waste time and money on trying to get that vote?

Basically, this Southern Strategy came about AFTER Republicans lost Black support. So it really doesnt address WHY they lost that support.

I think it was more the fact that they were actively seeking out the racist vote, exploiting racial tensions to gain votes in the south. The whole "states rights" thing was originally, in a large part, an anti-Civil Rights code word. Also, the restructuring of the parties in the wake of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had a lot to do with it.

The last straw for Black support for Republicans was Hoover's screwup in the Great Depression. As the great book, The Forgotten Man says, (paraphrase) "The black leaders turned the picture of Lincoln face to the wall, the Debt had been paid in full."

They had been taken for granted for years by the party. Then New Deal policies won them over big time. Political realignments like that happen every so often in this country. The Southern Strategy was essentially looking at what numbers you could get in which coalition, and it turned out that disenchanted white voters outnumbered the amount of black voters they could get. This is a gross simplification that ignores a lot of racial history also, but remember that Eisenhower was key in pushing some Civil Rights stuff through, and Kennedy didn't care much until he had to. Such is politics.

blade1228: Crosshair: . I highly doubt that MLK would even give Obama the time of day.

"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day."-MLK

You think this guy wouldn't give Obama the time of day? WOW!

It's the latest talking point. Mr. Manny's got to get it out there, and early, so folks can buzz with it. When you NEED to manufacture a "coalescent" idea, timing is everything...

Ron Paul Revere

If you think the only reason I'm not voting for Obama is because he's black, you're seriously the one who is focused on race here. He's not getting my vote because I don't believe in his policies, nor do I think that he has enough real experience for the presidency. Yes, some people out there DO only care about policy. Which is completely untrue of most black voters, who will vote for someone simply because of their race, or most democratic or republican voters, who only vote if there's an R or D next to the person's name. Sorry, but nobody gets my vote in this election cycle.

And BTW, I voted for Michael Steele in Maryland's last senatorial race for my area, and he lost despite the fact that he had the cleanest campaign I've ever seen. This after democratic stole and posted his private information, threw oreos at him, name called throughout the entirety of the race, simply because he is a black republican. One of the most unbelievably dirty dealings i've ever seen a person get, and he took it with class and didn't respond in kind. Lost mostly because people will still vote the party line, regardless.

IStateTheObvious: So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat?

Not trying to troll, but Democratic support of government aid programs targeted at poor minorities, like welfare, affirmative action, etc. If Republicans ran on a "forty acres and a mule" platform, they might pull blacks back towards them, but then they would lose the racist-reactionary element of their base, which is quite large unfortunately.

Remove all Republicans: IStateTheObvious: Basically, this Southern Strategy came about AFTER Republicans lost Black support. So it really doesnt address WHY they lost that support.

Easy. Johnson and the Democrats promised to help African Americans. The Republicans decided that they wanted to keep their good old white boys' club going. What do African Americans gain by supporting the party that is against affirmative action, the program designed solely to help the African American community move up and create a true color-blind society?

Johnson certainly did. But the Democrats in general did not. In the Senate, 69% of Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 vs 82% of Republicans. In the House it was 61% of Democrats for vs 80% of Republicans.

And as for AA, as long as you are highlighting differences of people based on race, a color blind society will be impossible.attackingpencil:

attackingpencil:

I think it was more the fact that they were actively seeking out the racist vote, exploiting racial tensions to gain votes in the south. The whole "states rights" thing was originally, in a large part, an anti-Civil Rights code word. Also, the restructuring of the parties in the wake of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had a lot to do with it.

And the Democrats have never done this? Of course they have. So what's the difference? (Not that 2 wrongs make a right)

blade1228

Your brother is screwy if he thought Huckabee was a good candidate!

My girlfriend and I were both for Ron Paul, actually, though even he was kind of a bottom of the barrel candidate for me. It's been a really pitiful selection for a long while on the conservative side.

IStateTheObvious: And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.)

It's more complicated than that.

The two parties began to switch sides with the New Deal. In 1964, the major support for the Civil Rights Act came from Northern liberals who were relatively new to the Democratic party. The major opposition came from conservative Southern Democrats, and from Barry Goldwater's growing conservative/social libertarian movement in the Republican party.

After 1964, most people shifted parties to align with their new places on the political spectrum. Zell Miller is probably the best case of someone who didn't, he is a conservative who remained in the Democratic party for 40 years.

When Miller spoke at the Republican convention in 2004, saying that the Democratic party had left him, he was telling the truth.It remains a mystery to me why he hadn't become a Republican before.

Of course the Democrats were always more than happy to have him caucus with them, and support him in elections instead of having his seat lost to a conservative in the Republican party.

IStateTheObvious: And the Democrats have never done this? Of course they have. So what's the difference? (Not that 2 wrongs make a right)

Did you read the article I linked? The Republicans have actively used the southern strategy since Nixon. Can you point to a similarly scaled effort on the part of Democrats?

attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: And the Democrats have never done this? Of course they have. So what's the difference? (Not that 2 wrongs make a right)

Did you read the article I linked? The Republicans have actively used the southern strategy since Nixon. Can you point to a similarly scaled effort on the part of Democrats?

Yes...and as I stated before, this was AFTER the Black support was lost, not the reason it was lost. Although it would certainly effect voters today and does make sense. But I would really like to know why they lost that support in the first place. If that hadnt happened, there would have been no 'Southern Strategy'.

IStateTheObvious: And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat?

Note the vote... It was split north/south not democrat/republican...Link

joestalin, you hit the nail on the head. It's hard to vote against someone who wants to give you something. If some politician said he would give me 5k a year just for breathing, and it would be absorbed by taxpayers that I feel have screwed me anyhow, why would I vote against them.

Now, the GOP cannot do this, simply because, A)as you said, they would piss off a large amount of people who disagree with such handouts, and B)the GOP always comes off as second best in the handing out loot category.

Look at the times when the Republicans DO try to "reach out" and try such policies. They are usually told to screw off. I feel that the fiscal irresponsibility that the GOP has now gotten a reputation for comes down to them thinking they could buy democratic constituencies by promising loot. They spent like drunken sailors, and still no one was moved by it.

You don't agree with his policies, but you'll vote for him because he's black.

Is there a white version of the "That's racist!" kid?

blade1228: IStateTheObvious: And the Republicans are the ones who got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. (It was Democrats who tried to fillibuster it.) So why do so many Blacks vote Democrat?

Note the vote... It was split north/south not democrat/republican...Link

Thanks...hadnt seen those stats before. Assuming they are accurate as they arent sourced. The stats I used came from the Congressional Quarterly, June 26, 1964

IStateTheObvious: attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: And the Democrats have never done this? Of course they have. So what's the difference? (Not that 2 wrongs make a right)

Did you read the article I linked? The Republicans have actively used the southern strategy since Nixon. Can you point to a similarly scaled effort on the part of Democrats?

Yes...and as I stated before, this was AFTER the Black support was lost, not the reason it was lost. Although it would certainly effect voters today and does make sense. But I would really like to know why they lost that support in the first place. If that hadnt happened, there would have been no 'Southern Strategy'.

Probably because a Democratic President (Kennedy) proposed the CRA and a Democratic Pres. (Johnson) got it passed. I know that southern Democrats in the legislature strongly opposed it, but people tend to remember presidents as far more representative of the party then lawmakers, and the parties realigned a lot after the act passed.

gruntmints: blade1228

Your brother is screwy if he thought Huckabee was a good candidate!

My girlfriend and I were both for Ron Paul, actually, though even he was kind of a bottom of the barrel candidate for me. It's been a really pitiful selection for a long while on the conservative side.

It has been for a while. In a way, Obama getting the Presidency can be a huge boon for the Republican party. It would allow a passing of the torch to a younger, and perhaps more truly Conservative members of the party to step up into place, as opposed to the radicals who have been masquerading as "Conservatives" and have gotten the GOP hung up with the Christian Right that has done the party few favors and really forced the platform to shift from core Conservative values.

It's funny what are called "Moderates" nowadays used to be old fashioned fiscal Conservatives, and social Conservatives as well. By linking the GOP with radicals who view the party system as a sort of culture war, we've allowed very radicalized and very much un-conservative ideas to leach into the well, so to speak.

I'm hoping that a win by the Democrats, and possibly even two, will allow the GOP the time to reform itself, and shed some of the detritus that now bog down the party.

attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: attackingpencil: IStateTheObvious: And the Democrats have never done this? Of course they have. So what's the difference? (Not that 2 wrongs make a right)

Did you read the article I linked? The Republicans have actively used the southern strategy since Nixon. Can you point to a similarly scaled effort on the part of Democrats?

Yes...and as I stated before, this was AFTER the Black support was lost, not the reason it was lost. Although it would certainly effect voters today and does make sense. But I would really like to know why they lost that support in the first place. If that hadnt happened, there would have been no 'Southern Strategy'.

Probably because a Democratic President (Kennedy) proposed the CRA and a Democratic Pres. (Johnson) got it passed. I know that southern Democrats in the legislature strongly opposed it, but people tend to remember presidents as far more representative of the party then lawmakers, and the parties realigned a lot after the act passed.

Ok..that makes sense. Didnt really think of it that way. You are right about the President getting credit (or blame) for what happens. Thanks for your help.

black conservatives are conflicted

Why?

No one is voting for Obama because of his skin color. It has nothing to do with him being where he is.

Right? Huh? Bueller?

Remove all Republicans

You honestly believe he's for change? I don't. He's the same kind of big government spending democrat that's been around for quite some time. I don't believe he's for a new type of politics. He believe in large educational spending? I don't. I've seen and been witness to the fact that simply increasing spending in education doesn't make a difference. I think there are greater needs in that area that need to be addressed, mainly, the parental involvement factor. And I teach high school english in a public school, so I think I do have a bit of first hand experience in that one. In fact, after my experiences in public school, but being taught and working in them, I'm fairly sure I'm either going to put my kids in private school or home school them.
He wants to increase taxes significantly on the rich. Ok, but will that help? I doubt it. When he says "progressive" tax code, what I'm sure he most likely means is putting a large tax burden on those at the top. Yes, most people think, hey, tax them more, they have more. Sorry, I don't think that way, not now as someone who only makes 40k a year, nor will I ever think that simply putting 50, 60, 70 percent tax burden on the richest of those of us will somehow improve the economic status of us and the country.
He's for clean coal, that one I give him. I think we need to get away from middle eastern energy sources and tap into what we have here, and coal being one of the most abundant sources we have, good, lets go all for it.
When it comes to health care, I'm against government run, canadian, european style health care. I believe that it should remain privatized.
I believe that unchecked illegal immigration is a problem, and I don't think Obama will make any headway into this area, or that he will make the right choice when it comes to it. While I think it's economically impossible to simply send everyone who is illegal "back to where they came from" because of how intergrated they are into out system, I also disagree with the stance of simply making them pay a fine and letting them become citizens. This is completely unfair to all those who did it the legal way, and would just be more incentive for people to come across our borders unchecked. Just look what happened last time we offered amnesty. all it did was increase illegal immigration.
And I also believe that his associations have been extremely suspicious. Yes, he did finally leave the radical church that he had been a part of, but I also do not believe anyone with a working intelligence would sit there for 20 years listening to the racist putrid coming from that church and not leave immediately. And neither do I believe that it was just a random happening, nor that it was only something Reverend Write et al, suddenly started saying.

The things that matter most to me, as a voter, are the economy, education and national defense. I do not believe that Obama aligns with my beliefs in any of those areas, and therefore I cannot vote for him. However, of every candidate running, I do find him to be the most likeable, with the most charisma, and probably the one who will bring America back to some good standing on the worldwide scene. Those factors aside, I do not believe he is good for our internal affairs, and he cannot and will not get my vote.

barneyfifesbullet: No one is voting for Obama because of his skin color. It has nothing to do with him being where he is.

Right? Huh? Bueller?

especially not the democrats, of whom 121% will vote for obama here in philadelphia this november.