This guy would do well as Obama's bulldog.

/a la Huxley

Democratic military officials treat troops as though they count.
Republican military officials treat troops like worthless pawns.

Wesley Clark is an asshat who, while a General, arranged for a photo-op between himself and a Serbian war criminal, Ratko Mladic, against a US State Department appeal. They even traded hats.

I'm not necessarily saying that McCain is a military genius, but Clark sure as hell isn't fit to manage anything.

jackmalice: Wesley Clark is an asshat who, while a General, arranged for a photo-op between himself and a Serbian war criminal, Ratko Mladic, against a US State Department appeal. They even traded hats.

I'm not necessarily saying that McCain is a military genius, but Clark sure as hell isn't fit to manage anything.

So that makes him a poor general?

"Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?"

Howard Dean-2004

Funny, I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where a Presidential candidate must have military experience. Maybe that's in the Secret Bill of Rights that the corpse of Thomas Jefferson is clutching in his skeletal right hand.

Ladies and gentlemen, your new Vice-President.

IStateTheObvious: "Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?"

Howard Dean-2004

Wow!! Howard Dean knows what he believes it!! He's an EXPERT on what Howard Dean thinks!!!

Too bad it doesn't really apply anywhere else.

IStateTheObvious: "Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?"

Howard Dean-2004

Funny how no one mentioned Howard Dean.

Obama/Clark '08!!!

/wishes...

How many lives did John McCain save, again?
How many did John Kerry save?

Arguments should be consistent with contributions... no matter which way you look.

Did you hear the whoosh as the point went right over your head?

Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.

I wasn't aware that McCain was making the argument that his military service makes him more qualified to be President. I figured it was his twenty or so more years of service in the Senate than Obama that made him more qualified. Go figure.

jackmalice: Clark sure as hell isn't fit to manage anything.

That's quite a leap there, jack. Are you really going to go with the argument that meeting with an enemy leader equates to an inability to lead? Really? I mean, if you are, then great. But I just want to set the record straight that this is your claim.

IStateTheObvious: Did you hear the whoosh as the point went right over your head?

Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.

Well, Bush certainly had a successful career in the military!! Not a single Viet Cong infiltrated Texas or where-ever he was stationed during Vietnam!! :D

Nice strawman, btw.

whidbey: skeletal right hand.

The Bilderberg Group heisted that to reanimate Cheney in late '03.

IStateTheObvious: Did you hear the whoosh as the point went right over your head?

Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.

According to Howard Dean... whom no mentioned mentioned but yourself.

Can you smell the "fail?"

IStateTheObvious: Did you hear the whoosh as the point went right over your head?

Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.



Reap what you sew.

Is MSNBC backing McCain, or just those 2 characters?

WFern: ...no one mentioned mentioned...

Can you smell the "fail?"

I'll save some of that for myself.

ScienceRocks: culebra:(bush and mccain)

Bush: You've abandoned your son!
McCain: I'VE ABANDONED MY BOY!!!

puffy999: How many lives did John McCain save, again?
How many did John Kerry save?

Arguments should be consistent with contributions... no matter which way you look.

McCain = -134 (Forrestal CV-59 Fire)


It takes balls for someone whose Dad is a serving Admiral, and Grandfather a retired Admiral, to run on their record of service in the Navy

DeltaXi65: I wasn't aware that McCain was making the argument that his military service makes him more qualified to be President. I figured it was his twenty or so more years of service in the Senate than Obama that made him more qualified. Go figure.

THAT makes a LOT more sense!!!!

Also, him refusing early release from the Hanoi Hilton because of whom his father was showed character. If Bush had wound up in the HH, do you think he would have refused an early release due to family connections?

evilotto: IStateTheObvious: Did you hear the whoosh as the point went right over your head?

Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.


Reap what you sew.

Speaking of sewing, they managed to beat the heart bandage theme for this year's convention by striking while the iron is hot on this fashion craze:

DeltaXi65: I wasn't aware that McCain was making the argument that his military service makes him more qualified to be President.

You must not be paying attention, then. McCain harps on his military experience in almost every stump speech he gives. It's even the basis of his first national TV ad.

Well, in terms of what Clark's main point, that McCain never really had much experience in high-level military terms, I think he makes an interesting point. It's not something that can be used to discredit McCain entirely (you don't las this long in politics without picking up a few things), it definitely something to consider along with all these position changes.

/I want McCain 2000 back
//That woman was annoying

IStateTheObvious: Evidently, when a Democrat with military experience is running for President, it is important. When its a Republican, not so much.



If you have a problem with that argument, perhaps you should consult the person responsible for this being an issue in the first place.

Wesley Clark is a very impressive person. I listen to all the little digs on him, and it just amazes me. Of course, he is going to have said and done things that people find fault with. He was a 4 Star General. You don't rise to a position like that without ruffling feathers, and actually making decisions.

I personally have no basis to judge him. He has walked the walk, and earned his right to have a say in public discourse. I thought the coont news personality was extremely rude an opinionated.

Clark is not perfect, but at least what I hear come out of his mouth sounds a lot less than the pandering I hear from the average politician, and he has more spine in public life than Colin Powell, who is one of the greatest disappointments for a man a beieved had so much promise in political life.

But wait! He's still a moslem that wants to enslave other races...

Nice hat Wesley. Go Obama!

LostSaidDocument: ScienceRocks: culebra:(bush and mccain)

Bush: You've abandoned your son!
McCain: I'VE ABANDONED MY BOY!!!

Are you implying that at some future point McCain will bludgeon Bush to death with a bowling pin?

/I'd pay to see that

slobarnuts: But wait! He's still a moslem that wants to enslave other races...

McCain is a Muslim?

Those sneaky bastards!!!

What will they think of next?

Somacandra: Those sneaky bastards!!!

What will they think of next?

THEY'RE ALL MUSLIMS!
THEY'RE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

Military experience doesn't automatically make you qualified to be commander-in-chief. If it did, every private would be a general.

soy_bomb: Nice hat Wesley. Go Obama!

Nice post, Douchebag. Go home!

The pros
he has a long list of accomplishments that's for sure.
and he's a son of the south.
provides a good balance to the ticket
certainly defuses the lack of experience argument
no voting record for the other side to exploit
doesn't have to give up a valuable seat to take office.

the cons:
he has gone on record saying unflattering things about Obama.
he has a PAC
He's not that great of a speaker.(not a big thing for a VP though)
he's a Clinton supporter

jackmalice: Clark sure as hell isn't fit to manage anything.

Yeah, most former 4 star generals aren't.

slobarnuts: THEY'RE ALL MUSLIMS!
THEY'RE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

In all seriousness, since part of what NATO did was essentially rescue Albanian Muslims from genocidal Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christians, it might not be a bad idea to push this idea a bit in terms of foreign policy. I've always thought highlighting the Serbian War more would do well for the U.S. in Dar-al-Islam. Gen. Clark played a pivotal role in that. Why not give him a larger role to play?

FDR never served in the military. Seems to me he did an alright job, considering that spat that was going on across the pond at the time.

ScienceRocks

You and I must be listening to different speeches. McCain references his military service, but I have never seen or heard him use it against Obama as part of the argument that because of military service he's more experienced than Obama.

I just scanned the last dozen or speeches on the McCain website, and I don't see that argument there. If you can point me in the right direction as to where you saw this, I'd appreciate.

There's nothing I hate more than being wrong on the internet.

SkyIsFailing: FDR never served in the military. Seems to me he did an alright job, considering that spat that was going on across the pond at the time.

Wasn't he Secretary of the Navy? Prescott Bush would disagree with you on his job performance.

robbiedo: SkyIsFailing: FDR never served in the military. Seems to me he did an alright job, considering that spat that was going on across the pond at the time.

Wasn't he Secretary of the Navy? Prescott Bush would disagree with you on his job performance.

Actually, he was Assistant Secretary of the Navy. And even still, the Secretary of the Navy was a civilian position within the Cabinet before it was moved under the Secretary of Defense within the Dept. of Defense in 1947.

Wesley Clark and Tony "Skeletor" McPeak, two of Obama's top military advisors, are are quite possbily the two biggest ass hats ever produced by their respective services.

robbiedo: Wasn't he Secretary of the Navy?

That's a political post, not military.

robbiedo: SkyIsFailing: FDR never served in the military. Seems to me he did an alright job, considering that spat that was going on across the pond at the time.

Wasn't he Secretary of the Navy? Nazi sympathizer Prescott Bush would disagree with you on his job performance.

FTFY

the_colonel: Wesley Clark and Tony "Skeletor" McPeak, two of Obama's top military advisors, are are quite possbily the two biggest ass hats ever produced by their respective services.

explain, please

DeltaXi65: ScienceRocks

You and I must be listening to different speeches. McCain references his military service, but I have never seen or heard him use it against Obama as part of the argument that because of military service he's more experienced than Obama.

I just scanned the last dozen or speeches on the McCain website, and I don't see that argument there. If you can point me in the right direction as to where you saw this, I'd appreciate.

There's nothing I hate more than being wrong on the internet.


linky

"I take a back seat to no one in my affection, respect and devotion to veterans," McCain said. "I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did."

Somacandra: In all seriousness, since part of what NATO did was essentially rescue Albanian Muslims from genocidal Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christians, it might not be a bad idea to push this idea a bit in terms of foreign policy. I've always thought highlighting the Serbian War more would do well for the U.S. in Dar-al-Islam. Gen. Clark played a pivotal role in that. Why not give him a larger role to play?

It wasn't so much a religion issue. Yes it played a big part in Kosovo. But it genuinely was just nationalism gone overboard. Serbs v. Kosovar Albanians. That's the thing about some of those former Eastern bloc countries, Religion is used when it suits, but nationality and ethnicity usually take precedence. This could be seen by the KLA lobbying for support from both Islamic and Western countries.

Never-the-less, it may be a decent card to play. Although even to this day, KFOR still maintains regional security and no one knows what the fark is actually going to happen with that little bit of frontier country. Russia pisses on every proposal, vetoing ever UNSC resolution. They're afraid that what happened in Kosovo could be repeated in Georgia. Even after Kosovo declared Independence (a couple months ago), Russia still refuses to recognize the status.

So by propping Clark up in such a manner, you risk pissing off one of the more potent enemies the geopolitics presents: Russia.