The alternating tense in the healine will make my head hurted.

So that basically means a bunch of Republicans plus Joe Lieberman, right?

How can he claim with certainty that he's including Dems, Reps, and Inds if he doesn't take measures to ensure that all three groups are represented? Hmmmm?

_{/devil's advocate}

In his defense, he probably has no idea where he is half the time.

/"confused"

aimtastic: So that basically means a bunch of Republicans plus Joe Lieberman, right?

Lieberman was the token Independent, Zell Miller there as the token Democrat. They had to ask Zell to leave when he challenged a passing cloud to a duel with revolvers.

JPJ007: How can he claim with certainty that he's including Dems, Reps, and Inds if he doesn't take measures to ensure that all three groups are represented? Hmmmm?

Yep, spot on. The list says there were a number of McCain supporters and independents. It didn't mentions Dems, so I guess he lied...Let's overreact or somtehing.

Edsel: In his defense, he probably has no idea where he is half the time.

/"confused"

He should ask Zombie Admiral James "Who am I? Why am I here?" Stockdale to be his running mate.

Hey, what's that bulge on McCain's back under his jacket?

Perhaps the Iraq war protesters shouldn't be such douchebags.

I understand people who are against the war. I was against the war before I was for the war. (hehe) But aimlessly yelling at a politician who is trying to speak his mind accomplishes nothing. I respect war protests if they are well organized and more than just a few random hecklers. Go march on DC if you have such a big problem.

Shaggy_C: The list says there were a number of McCain supporters and independents.

Independent independents or O RLY independents?

Nestea Plunge: Did they have to sign something like this?

Who do herby endorse?

SangamonTaylor
Perhaps the Iraq war protesters shouldn't be such douchebags.

huh? That has absolutely nothing to do with McCain's "town hall" meeting.

Nestea Plunge: SangamonTaylor: Perhaps the Iraq war protesters shouldn't be such douchebags.

I understand people who are against the war. I was against the war before I was for the war. (hehe) But aimlessly yelling at a politician who is trying to speak his mind accomplishes nothing. I respect war protests if they are well organized and more than just a few random hecklers. Go march on DC if you have such a big problem.

That's pretty interesting. Too bad it's in the wrong thread or something.

I think he's trying to say that McBush shouldn't be exposed to any kind of negative opinions or be told that his policies are killing and maiming American citizens.

Politicians stacking an audience? Shocked I say, simply SHOCKED

/Clinton did it as well
//As I'm sure did Bush I, Regan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, etc
///kill all the career politicians & start over with a national lottery - couldn't be any more screwed up than this mess...

GAT_00: I think he's trying to say that McBush shouldn't be exposed to any kind of negative opinions or be told that his policies are killing and maiming American citizens.

Maybe just that we shouldn't be critical of the government unless we're physically marching up and down the Mall. Which is just as dumb, really.

Nestea Plunge
So it makes it alright because Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon did it.

Personally, I endorse Richard Nixon as the moral arbiter of our nation.

patrick767: SangamonTaylor
Perhaps the Iraq war protesters shouldn't be such douchebags.

huh? That has absolutely nothing to do with McCain's "town hall" meeting.

Why do you think they only distribute tickets to these events to supporters and other independent groups? Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out. They have to, ya know, keep the loonies out.

That's exactly why Bush started only inviting supporters to his events. If the protesters weren't so obnoxious, and were randomly chosen to ask their (hopefully well thought out) question, this wouldn't be such a problem. Instead of being normal (sane) individuals, however, the asshats ruin it for everyone.

McCain will bring McDeath to millions if he has his way. But don't worry, they'll be poor and you won't know any of them, so it will be okay.

SangamonTaylor: That's exactly why Bush started only inviting supporters to his events. If the protesters weren't so obnoxious, and were randomly chosen to ask their (hopefully well thought out) question, this wouldn't be such a problem. Instead of being normal (sane) individuals, however, the asshats ruin it for everyone.

Yes, how DARE McBush know that people disagree with him. We've got to hide that from him.

Recoil Therapy: Politicians stacking an audience? Shocked I say, simply SHOCKED

/Clinton did it as well


I do seem to recall a hilarious trainwreck of a Townhall meeting where Madeline Albright and some other Clinton guys (don't recall if the man himself was there) where they went before a non-ringer audience to promote the war in Kosovo, and it was pure chaos as the audience shouted her down everytime she opened her mouth.

Farking hysterical.

SangamonTaylor: Perhaps the Iraq war protesters shouldn't be such douchebags.

I understand people who are against the war. I was against the war before I was for the war. (hehe) But aimlessly yelling at a politician who is trying to speak his mind accomplishes nothing. I respect war protests if they are well organized and more than just a few random hecklers. Go march on DC if you have such a big problem.

Funny seeing a ginormous douche calling other people douches for expressing their views. Town halls always get hecklers THAT'S THE POINT. A town hall is an open forum for anyone and everyone to come and express their views. McCains town halls are anything but, which is the point of the this article.

And speaking of McCain town halls, I'm watching todays right now and have caught most of these on CNN. I was surprised to hear these town halls were supposed to be real town hall meetings, since the crowds at these so called "town halls" are always very small and clearly 100% Republican.

Well how was he to insure that there would be Democrats and Independents there other then to invite them. And if I was in charge of security for a candidate I would demand that at least some kind of back ground check was done before I let them in the room with them. I won't cry foul here, and I will not cry foul when the story about Obama doing it comes out.

Mr McCain, how has your faith helped you in these trying times?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I won't cry foul here, and I will not cry foul when the story about Obama doing it comes out.

I hope he doesn't do that, and if he does, the backfire is just as big against him.

rcain: Funny seeing a ginormous douche calling other people douches for expressing their views. Town halls always get hecklers THAT'S THE POINT. A town hall is an open forum for anyone and everyone to come and express their views.

Yes and for everyone to get a chance to express their view we need some kind of order. If everyone yells at once no one will be heard. If the point of a townhall was just for everyone one to talk then we could have them in football arenas and EVERYONE could talk. But that's useless!

And to the protesters: Take turns you damn dirty hippies. It's not all about you no matter what your mommy tells you.

"My friends..."

GAT_00: I hope he doesn't do that, and if he does, the backfire is just as big against him.

Just as big or bigger? It's like a family value Republican getting caught with the kiddie porn. Yeah it's bad but it's worst cause he rallies against it. Would be the same for Obama playing old school politics. I understand why he would do it. But still it could be turned into a talking point.


Like I said before, I'm not going to cry foul.

Run it like a town meeting. People get the right to talk, but not interrupt or yells things out. And please have people who actually disagree with the candidate as well. Otherwise you might as well just give a speech.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And if I was in charge of security for a candidate I would demand that at least some kind of back ground check was done before I let them in the room with them.


It would be a little difficult to vett everybody :)

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yes and for everyone to get a chance to express their view we need some kind of order. If everyone yells at once no one will be heard. If the point of a townhall was just for everyone one to talk then we could have them in football arenas and EVERYONE could talk. But that's useless!

And to the protesters: Take turns you damn dirty hippies. It's not all about you no matter what your mommy tells you.

Hecklers are a fact of life. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are necessary in a public forum.
The event carried on as planned, so they clearly did not remove order.

But the important function of the heckler is to present a confrontation with a challenging point of view. It's important to see those points of view and important to see how the candidates deal with them.

Remember Michael Richards and that entire racist rant he went on? You remember why? Hecklers.
He lost it and couldn't deal with a few jabs from the audience and went ballistic. You want a president that does the same when things don't go his way?

So yes, heckle away, it's part of the process. And for those of you trying to quell free speech and eliminate dissent: Go fark yourselves and leave this country to those who not only value the Constitution but exercise our rights under it. While I value your right to say what you think, I will fight you to the death to uphold my and others rights to speak our minds in any manner we chose.

rcain:

So yes, heckle away, it's part of the process. And for those of you trying to quell free speech and eliminate dissent: Go fark yourselves and leave this country to those who not only value the Constitution but exercise our rights under it. While I value your right to say what you think, I will fight you to the death to uphold my and others rights to speak our minds in any manner we chose.

Our town holds meetings where the merits of proposed legislation/town spending is hotly debated. Hecklers would add nothing good to this process. You can encourage dissent and still have order. I don't see what gives you the right to heckle.

Dinki: It would be a little difficult to vett everybody :)

A complete FBI/CIA investigation? No. A simple background check? No problem.

rcain: Hecklers are a fact of life. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are necessary in a public forum.
The event carried on as planned, so they clearly did not remove order.

But the important function of the heckler is to present a confrontation with a challenging point of view. It's important to see those points of view and important to see how the candidates deal with them.

Remember Michael Richards and that entire racist rant he went on? You remember why? Hecklers.
He lost it and couldn't deal with a few jabs from the audience and went ballistic. You want a president that does the same when things don't go his way?

So yes, heckle away, it's part of the process. And for those of you trying to quell free speech and eliminate dissent: Go fark yourselves and leave this country to those who not only value the Constitution but exercise our rights under it. While I value your right to say what you think, I will fight you to the death to uphold my and others rights to speak our minds in any manner we chose.

WTF? Now heckling is a noble profession? When has a heckler ever brought up something new to a candidate ?!? NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR!!! Oh wow that's shocking and thought provoking. Thank god those kids got that banner into that speech or I never would have had a negative thought on people killing other people! BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!! You're kidding me? I never heard that before! I'm shocked, thank you Mr. Protester. I never would have heard that point of view if you hadn't make a complete fool out of yourself. I understand those kinds of protests in China, but here if you have something negative to say about the government just stand outside of the event with a sign. Odds are a reporter will be there with a camera and a mic for you to give your own speech. That way you can let the grown-ups debate the issues inside.

The whole argument that the invitation only crowd is to keep out hecklers is a canard- this has nothing to do with keeping order at the meeting, and everything to do with protecting the candidate from having to answer uncomfortable questions.

Nestea Plunge: So it makes it alright because Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon did it.

Absolutely not. However the playbook goes back much further than the currently much despised (justified) administration. For people to act like this is the first time that it has happened/someone was caught at it then that person is either woefully ignorant/unobservant of history or has the deliberate partisan blinders on.

I think John McCain just didn't want to hear opposing viewpoints like these.

ExJerseyGirl: I don't see what gives you the right to heckle.

It's called the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. Deal with it.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: WTF? Now heckling is a noble profession? When has a heckler ever brought up something new to a candidate ?!? NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR!!! Oh wow that's shocking and thought provoking. Thank god those kids got that banner into that speech or I never would have had a negative thought on people killing other people! BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!! You're kidding me? I never heard that before! I'm shocked, thank you Mr. Protester. I never would have heard that point of view if you hadn't make a complete fool out of yourself. I understand those kinds of protests in China, but here if you have something negative to say about the government just stand outside of the event with a sign. Odds are a reporter will be there with a camera and a mic for you to give your own speech. That way you can let the grown-ups debate the issues inside.

I didn't say it was noble or a profession, but a fact of life and a necessary function.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong.

And peoples reactions to things that they don't agree with are very telling in their support for the democratic process and dictates the society we live in. Seeing how many people would to take away our freedoms and replace them with laws restricting us to their own values tells me America is in trouble of losing it's status as a free republic. When people can no longer grasp that differing points of view and dissent against "authority" is ok, we are already well on our way to becoming a fascist regime.

Someone yelling out some snide remark might very well be rude. But what are the options? Passing laws to what you may or may not say and when you may or may not say it? Why stop there? Why not execution for not abiding by party beliefs? Would that make you happy?

I have no problem with an invitation-only event. Just call it a campaign event rather than a town hall meeting.

rcain:

It's called the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. Deal with it.

If I hold a function I have every right to ask someone to leave if they are disruptive. If I am a candidate, I can hold an event and insist that people don't yell things out of turn. You want to stand outside and protest? Go for it.

Three Crooked Squirrels: I have no problem with an invitation-only event. Just call it a campaign event rather than a town hall meeting.

Yes, if you are going to call it a town hall event, you need to have actually discussion and dissent.

There's a difference between "Hecklers" and "people who may have an alternative opinion".

Look at it this way: If the Fark Politics page didn't let in anyone who wasn't a left leaning Democrat, because we wanted to keep the trolls out, it wouldn't be very much fun to discuss politics.

You want to debate in the Democratic Underground* or Free Republic, go ahead- but just remember, you're not allowed to have a different opinion than the moderators.

* not sure how DU handled the primary season, but I bet it was ugly.

rcain: Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong.

JEWS DID WTC

I don't think McCain really wants to hear anything out of the 'great unwashed masses' except 'SIRYESSIR!' and 'whip me harder master!'

ExJerseyGirl: "If I hold a function I have every right to ask someone to leave if they are disruptive."

Sure, you have the right to ask.

"If I am a candidate, I can hold an event and insist that people don't yell things out of turn".

You can insist, but good luck with that, it happens to just about every candidate.
That's why Bush set up "Free Speech Zones", in a true show of his respect for the Constitution.

"You want to stand outside and protest? Go for it."

Sure, and people do.

What you forget here is that by "asking" and "insisting" you are only making a request for your preferred conduct. But for you to expect everyone to follow that is unrealistic.

Personally, hecklers annoy me, but I find that hecklers annoy me a lot less when they are heckling about a topic that I share their point of view with. How about those Hillary hecklers or the hecklers at Obama rallies? I'm sure you didn't have such a big issue with those people.

And I'm sure you'll find that there have been hecklers throughout history. Back to the dawn of time. So if there has always been hecklers, why would there not be any hecklers now?

rcain: And peoples reactions to things that they don't agree with are very telling in their support for the democratic process and dictates the society we live in. Seeing how many people would to take away our freedoms and replace them with laws restricting us to their own values tells me America is in trouble of losing it's status as a free republic. When people can no longer grasp that differing points of view and dissent against "authority" is ok, we are already well on our way to becoming a fascist regime.

Someone yelling out some snide remark might very well be rude. But what are the options? Passing laws to what you may or may not say and when you may or may not say it? Why stop there? Why not execution for not abiding by party beliefs? Would that make you happy?


Wow, tow the line or die? You really think I am trying to limit speech? Just the reverse my friend. I'm trying to give everyone a chance in the spot light. How do we do that? You see that line over there at the mic? Get in it. Or if they are having a drawing, put your name in the hat. If everyone who jumps up and starts yelling gets to cut to the front of the line then guess what will happen? Everyone will jump up and no one will be heard. Why is that so hard to understand? All the heckler does is give the speaker a chance to prove that everyone on the other side of the debate is a wing-nut. You act worry about free speech, what about the speaker's free speech? What about the rights of every other person in that hall that came to hear the speaker? Oh they don't matter? Forget their rights? The only person's rights who matter is the heckler's? Fark them. We live in a civil society, you cant play by the rules then you dont get to sit in the hall.

Maybe he was telling the truth. Maybe they are loyalists who registered as Democratic to vote against Hillary.

rcain:

You can insist, but good luck with that, it happens to just about every candidate.

What you forget here is that by "asking" and "insisting" you are only making a request for your preferred conduct. But for you to expect everyone to follow that is unrealistic.

Personally, hecklers annoy me, but I find that hecklers annoy me a lot less when they are heckling about a topic that I share their point of view with. How about those Hillary hecklers or the hecklers at Obama rallies? I'm sure you didn't have such a big issue with those people.

And I'm sure you'll find that there have been hecklers throughout history. Back to the dawn of time. So if there has always been hecklers, why would there not be any hecklers now?

I just don't see the need to have hecklers at a town hall event. Let people have their turn addressing the candidate, not just shouting shiat out. If they are going to shout out shiat, then remove them so you can have an actual debate about issues.

And what's with the Hillary and Obama hecklers comment? Why would I think differently if they had a town hall event?

His mistake was calling them "townhalls". "Freedom Townhalls". might be way more patriotic.

rcain: Sure, you have the right to ask.



Oh they may ask they may not, either way you are leaving.

rcain: And I'm sure you'll find that there have been hecklers throughout history. Back to the dawn of time. So if there has always been hecklers, why would there not be any hecklers now?

It's going to happen so why try to stop it? I really hope that is tolling bait.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wow, tow the line or die? You really think I am trying to limit speech? Just the reverse my friend. I'm trying to give everyone a chance in the spot light. How do we do that? You see that line over there at the mic? Get in it. Or if they are having a drawing, put your name in the hat. If everyone who jumps up and starts yelling gets to cut to the front of the line then guess what will happen? Everyone will jump up and no one will be heard. Why is that so hard to understand? All the heckler does is give the speaker a chance to prove that everyone on the other side of the debate is a wing-nut. You act worry about free speech, what about the speaker's free speech? What about the rights of every other person in that hall that came to hear the speaker? Oh they don't matter? Forget their rights? The only person's rights who matter is the heckler's? Fark them. We live in a civil society, you cant play by the rules then you dont get to sit in the hall.

I rest my case. You have shown that you fail to grasp that you can not force people not to succumb to human nature.

Sure, you can set up a line to a mic and request that people please restrict their comments to that venue. But that doesn't mean that you wont get a few who heed that request. You then say that it's about the defense of the speakers free speech. Well, didn't your momma ever tell you that if you speak, you can expect to get spoken back to? Just because he's a candidate doesn't mean he's immune to that, in fact it makes him a more likely target.

And then you get into rights, and you bring out the persecution complex.
By someone exercising their rights, you claim they are denying everyone else their rights.
Bullocks. No one's rights are being violated. The only rights violations I see here are the people wanting to restrict free speech because they think it's rude. They would take away all of our rights just so the world could fit into their very narrow point of view.

Benjamin Franklin once said when asked what form of government had been decided upon "A republic if you can keep it". Well, part of keeping that republic is understanding that not everything in the world is the way you want it and that other people might want very different things. Things that even, FSM forbid, might offend your delicate sensibilities. But that does not make those "other" people wrong. They are just as valid as you.

I'm not calling for anything, other than for things to stay the same as they have been since ... well, ever. You are the only one that wants to change things and restrict things. You would have us undermine the Constitution itself under the precept "manners" But it's really nothing more than a desire to instill a doctrine of dictating what a person can say and when he can say it . And that is not an American value, that is something only a fascist could love.

Don't like me saying the word fascist with you in its context? Then stop using fascist arguments.