Cheney has no credibility left. Even his own people know it.

Tabatha Static

congratulations, you've managed to make the teletubbies sun baby even more evil looking.

I saw "exposes" and "Cheney" in the same sentence and my brain panicked. That could be because I was reading the moobs thread a moment ago, though...

I keep hearing these talking points about how the U.S. has vast untapped oil reserves off the coast of California, but the gotdamned communist hippie environmentalists won't let us drill out there and hate America.

I've never been able to find anything either supporting or refuting this. Can anyone help?

in the 80's i saw an offshore drilling rig working off of the coast in Long Beach California but it was disguised to not look like an oil drilling rig.

go figure

The Grim Creeper: Honestly, f*ck Republicans. They're as untrustworthy as they are wrong. Which is to say, very.

Uh, Mel Martinez is a Republican.

/gross generalizations are stupid

Still, why aren't we drilling more to increase our supply while encouraging alternative methods of energy. It IS possible to do both.

L33t Squirrel: I saw "exposes" and "Cheney" in the same sentence and my brain panicked.

I saw "Dick" and "Drilling" and had a similar reaction.

Crosshair: Still, why aren't we drilling more to increase our supply while encouraging alternative methods of energy. It IS possible to do both.

How nice of you to willingly risk the beautiful coast of North Dakota and the brazillions it generates in tourist dollars.

People who don't live in Florida or California are always so reasonable about offshore drilling.

But, then, they do have the unbiased wisdom and expertise of Dick Cheney to support them.

He didn't lie! He just was just handed faulty intel!

/Neocon all-purpose get-out-of-jail-free card

Now wait and witness as Sean Hannity CONTINUES to spout this as though it were fact on his radio show.

Regardless, I don't understand how people can demand we end our dependence on foreign oil w/o letting us drill for our own. It's not like we can change our entire infrastructure in a couple years.

Heh heh, Mel Martinez was the Bush administration's hand picked candidate to run for the Senate in Florida, and even he's calling Cheney's bullshiat on this. Sweet.

Cheney said: "As for other locations, George Will pointed out in his column the other day that oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida."

Huh, he repeated a George Will mistake. Doesn't seem like much.

But there is one thing we can be sure of. This mistake is severe enough that Dennis Kucinich will make this impeachment article #36.

Martinez seems like a decent guy. At least not all Republicans are feckless tools.

*Ahem*

The United States has less than 2 percent of the world's oil reserves, while consuming 25 percent of the world's oil. Our own oil supply, without foreign imports, would last just three years. Drilling is not the solution.

make me some tea
I keep hearing these talking points about how the U.S. has vast untapped oil reserves off the coast of California, but the gotdamned communist hippie environmentalists won't let us drill out there and hate America.

I've never been able to find anything either supporting or refuting this. Can anyone help?

Actually, oil companies didn't want to drill, and not just in the US.

During the 1990s, oil was way too cheap to justify the investments to look for new oil. Which is one of the reasons oil is so expensive now. Most of the cheap oil has been pumped out of the ground, and the reserves are in expensive fields.
But those fields haven't been developed much, because it was too expensive. OPEC must now invest billions of dollars if it wants to maintain its output, let alone increase it.

Of course, now that oil is expensive, investments are being made, but there is a shortage of materials and experts. So even if Congress says "drill now!", there might not be anyone available to drill. There's a 2-3 year waiting list to get a new rig now. Plus, there is a huge shortage of qualified engineers, all the old ones are retiring, and for the past 10-20 years, everyone went into computer science/finance/IT, because oil engineering wasn't attractive. Now it's changed, but you have to wait a few years for the new graduates to come on the market.

/But it's easier to blame "environazis"

Dick Cheney is still alive? The Onion just reported that he hasnt been seen for months and might be hiding in a bunker.

rppp01a: The United States has less than 2 percent of the world's oil reserves, while consuming 25 percent of the world's oil. Our own oil supply, without foreign imports, would last just three years. Drilling is not the solution.

Looks like ThinkProgress got that from Wikipedia. link

So I'll do the same:

"The United States has the largest known deposits of oil shale in the world, according to the Bureau of Land Management and holds an estimated 2,500 gigabarrels of potentially recoverable oil, enough to meet U.S. demand for oil at current rates for 110 years. However, oil shale does not actually contain oil, but a waxy oil precursor known as kerogen. For this reason and because there is not yet any significant commercial production of oil from oil shale in the United States as of 2008, its oil shale reserves do not meet the petroleum industry definition of proven oil reserves."

AtikuX: /But it's easier to blame "environazis"

Isn't it always?

Hmmmm. Maybe I should've gone for that geology degree after all.

Thanks!

We capped a lot of oil wells all over the 48 states in the 70's. Gosh, at $150 a barrel it would seem to me that uncapping wells would be less expensive and more immediate than drilling in ANWR.

But there's not a lot of money to be made restarting old wells.

Kevin72: Dick Cheney is still alive? The Onion just reported that he hasnt been seen for months and might be hiding in a bunker.

You know who else liked to hide in a bunker?

almost all Florida politicians oppose more drilling including possible vp nominee Crist. they keep nattering something about tourism and the seafood industry.

TheShavingofOccam123: Kevin72: Dick Cheney is still alive? The Onion just reported that he hasnt been seen for months and might be hiding in a bunker.

You know who else liked to hide in a bunker?

Heh, anyone remember IsDickCheneyDeadYet.com?

The insurgency is in it's last throes and victory is around the corner"

Link (1994 Cheney)


How could anyone trust this evil douchebag?

make me some tea: I keep hearing these talking points about how the U.S. has vast untapped oil reserves off the coast of California, but the gotdamned communist hippie environmentalists won't let us drill out there and hate America.

I've never been able to find anything either supporting or refuting this. Can anyone help?

Not the communist hippie environmentalists, but the rich republican homeowners between Santa Barbara and Malibu. In 1969 (a good year for hippies) a horrible oil blowout and subsequent oil slick fouled the coast and Channel Islands, made worse because there was no immediate way to cap the well. A drilling moratorium was immediately declared.

Since then, the ban has been extended by every governor and president (Democrat AND Republican) not only to protect the Channel Island and Monterey Bay nature preserves; but also to protect the now-wealthy (and mostly Republican) beachfront communities along the mid-Californian coast.

While drilling off Monterey Bay is probably a bad idea, since the Bay is fairly pristine and a valuable nature sanctuary; the So. Cal. ban is mainly kept in place thanks not to environmentalists any more but to wealthy homeowners and rich communities who don't want to lose tourism dollars in case of another blowout. Google California oil drilling Santa Barbara for more data.

CynicalLA: The insurgency is in it's last throes and victory is around the corner"

Link (1994 Cheney)


How could anyone trust this evil douchebag?

Bribery? Meth? Demonic possession? Retardation?

"Daily Star: Do you suppose the strategic oil reserve should be opened up at $3 or $4 or $5 a gallon?

McCain: It would be OK with me. It would probably be a week's worth. It wouldn't really address the problem but it would be OK with me. I'm not an expert on oil prices. I cannot predict. But I am knowledgeable enough to know that we've got India and China, two developing industrial nations, and they're going to suck up a lot of the world's oil reserves. Why do you think I met our friend that's the head of Phelps Dodge? Why is the price of copper at an all- time high? The Chinese are buying every scrap of copper that's available. Supply and demand." "

You all better pipe down unless you wanna get shot in the face.

Wait, a Republican Senator, from FLORIDA is calling them out on this?

What the hell is going on?

helix400: Looks like ThinkProgress got that from Wikipedia. link

So I'll do the same:

"The United States has the largest known deposits of oil shale in the world, according to the Bureau of Land Management and holds an estimated 2,500 gigabarrels of potentially recoverable oil, enough to meet U.S. demand for oil at current rates for 110 years. However, oil shale does not actually contain oil, but a waxy oil precursor known as kerogen. For this reason and because there is not yet any significant commercial production of oil from oil shale in the United States as of 2008, its oil shale reserves do not meet the petroleum industry definition of proven oil reserves." I am ignorant of the fundamental differences between oil shale and oil.


FTFY

Gyrfalcon: While drilling off Monterey Bay is probably a bad idea, since the Bay is fairly pristine and a valuable nature sanctuary; the So. Cal. ban is mainly kept in place thanks not to environmentalists any more but to wealthy homeowners and rich communities who don't want to lose tourism dollars in case of another blowout. Google California oil drilling Santa Barbara for more data.

I've been diving out in the Channel Islands. Amazing place, that. Water and ocean surge is a pain, but I can understand why they don't want to mess it up.

helix400: Cheney said: "As for other locations, George Will pointed out in his column the other day that oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida."

Huh, he repeated a George Will mistakea false article that supports his policies. Doesn't seem like much.

But there is one thing we can be sure of. This mistakelie is severe enough that Dennis Kucinich will make this impeachment article #36.

FTFY

Uh-huh... so, we have one politician saying one thing, and one politician saying the opposite... neither of them with any evidence other than hearsay to support their position.

The only remarkable thing, here, is that they are ostensibly both Republicans.

I think it's funny that the Democrat blogger gives any credence to Mel Martinez' maps and reports; Bush's lackeys had all sorts of maps and reports in the run-up to invading Iraq.

PascalsGhost: I am ignorant of the fundamental differences between oil shale and oil.

Uhh, that's why I left in the extra stuff after the 110 years. You know, the part that begins with "However..."

we have 2% of the world's oil reserves and it would last only 3 years?

shouldn't we have consumed it all by now, then?

Many here may not know this but our country still exports oil. The US in 2006 exported nearly 1.5 million barrels of petroleum products a day. If we weren't capitolists we could probably solve this problem.

/Freedom isn't free, it's $4/gallon.

florida tag proud? wait... what?

helix400: PascalsGhost: I am ignorant of the fundamental differences between oil shale and oil.

Uhh, that's why I left in the extra stuff after the 110 years. You know, the part that begins with "However..."

No you don't understand. The figure you quoted is not recoverable oil.

The "However..." part addresses the lack of profit given today's known upgrading techniques and energy input requirements.

Even if you wanted to lose unlimited amounts of money, you would not be able to recover "110 years worth of oil"--even if you assumed there was zero demand growth.

It's ok, the Brazilian minister of natural resources made a similar mistake a couple weeks back

h to the 'ojo: No you don't understand. The figure you quoted is not recoverable oil.

No, I do understand. I just didn't launch into a 20 paragraph essay to explain why shale oil is difficult to extract, and why you won't extract all of it. Sometimes I think the detail purists won't mind if I keep posts short and simple. But I guess I was wrong.

h to the 'ojo: helix400: PascalsGhost: I am ignorant of the fundamental differences between oil shale and oil.

Uhh, that's why I left in the extra stuff after the 110 years. You know, the part that begins with "However..."

No you don't understand. The figure you quoted is not recoverable oil.

The "However..." part addresses the lack of profit given today's known upgrading techniques and energy input requirements.

Even if you wanted to lose unlimited amounts of money, you would not be able to recover "110 years worth of oil"--even if you assumed there was zero demand growth.

It's ok, the Brazilian minister of natural resources made a similar mistake a couple weeks back

Are you suggesting it requires more energy/money to extract it than it could be sold for?

If so, got a link?

bsdbigot: Uh-huh... so, we have one politician saying one thing, and one politician saying the opposite... neither of them with any evidence other than hearsay to support their position.

The only remarkable thing, here, is that they are ostensibly both Republicans.

I think it's funny that the Democrat blogger gives any credence to Mel Martinez' maps and reports; Bush's lackeys had all sorts of maps and reports in the run-up to invading Iraq.

To be fair, one of them is Cheney, who seems to be wrong about any specific threat he blabs about.

helix400: h to the 'ojo: No you don't understand. The figure you quoted is not recoverable oil.

No, I do understand. I just didn't launch into a 20 paragraph essay to explain why shale oil is difficult to extract, and why you won't extract all of it. Sometimes I think the detail purists won't mind if I keep posts short and simple. But I guess I was wrong.

You stated there was a 110 year supply of oil from oil-shale in the United States. That is patently false. You may understand that at this point, but that is not what you posted.

Interestingly, there would be no point in making your original post had you understood that probably less than 1/4 of your quoted reserves could be extracted and refined.

snuffy: in the 80's i saw an offshore drilling rig working off of the coast in Long Beach California but it was disguised to not look like an oil drilling rig.

go figure

I remember going to beach as kid in California. Seeing the high tide mark and those of the lower incoming waves etched in black and coming home with me feet all covered with what Dad said was tar. Stuff was a biatch to get off too...had to use gasoline or nail polish remover as a solvent.

/ good times...

bartink:
Are you suggesting it requires more energy/money to extract it than it could be sold for?

If so, got a link?

To upgrade the ?kerogen?, you will need a lot of input energy -- the process is similar to upgrading the bitumen mined from the Alberta oil sands. It is merely an added cost to an already expensive process, it should still be energy positive (although that is speculation because we don't know what form the optimal extraction technology will develop into)

I don't know of any recent published reports on the economic feasibility of oil-shale, but I would not be surprised if current prices were not economically viable. Equipment, materials, specialized workers are all in high demand and their prices have gone up and so the cost of developing fields have gone up to reduce available margin for capital investment.

snuffy: in the 80's i saw an offshore drilling rig working off of the coast in Long Beach California but it was disguised to not look like an oil drilling rig.

go figure

Yeah we don't go swimming at the beach. Well us locals don't, we don't tell the tourists jack though. They just tend to ignore all the offshore stuff, and the humongous port putting large amounts of crap in the water.

Kinda sucks living 3 miles from the beach and knowing that going in the water is a bad idea though.

make me some tea: I keep hearing these talking points about how the U.S. has vast untapped oil reserves off the coast of California, but the gotdamned communist hippie environmentalists won't let us drill out there and hate America.

I've never been able to find anything either supporting or refuting this. Can anyone help?

It's the New Geology.

The souls of trillions of space aliens were dumped into a volcano, yada yada yada. Plate tectonics has concentrated these souls into fault zones, where the heat and pressure converted them into oil - hence the oil off California.

Sometimes, the souls leak out and infect local people they come across. Hence the general Californian nuttiness.

Dick Cheney is the personification of the threat to this nation that Eisenhower warned us about in his '61 farewell address.

h to the 'ojo: I don't know of any recent published reports on the economic feasibility of oil-shale, but I would not be surprised if current prices were not economically viable.


Shell (^) reckon they can do it, and are putting a little money into trial operations (allegedly $50 million or so).

A cynic might say that's fark-all, and if they REALLY thought it was a winner, they'd be investing twenty times as much.