and if the ACLJ set up checkpoints to monitor the ACLU's checkpoints would the question be "Quis custodiet ipsos custodies custodiorum?"

seriously though, everyone who likes to rag on the ACLU remember this story. The DC police, being frustrated by a recent crime wave , gave decided to abandon the constitution entirely and turn the city into downtown Baghdad were THEY decide if you are allowed into a particular neighborhood. Without someone to keep them honest how many other police departments would try this?

I'm sure glad the ACLU is out protecting my right to go buy crack.

/generally likes the ACLU.
//DRTFA

The cops are wrong here, but there needs to be a 2 pronged attack here. Instead of saying "Trinidad should not be treated like Baghdad," said Mark Thompson, the leader of the NAACP's local police task force," Thompson might suggest that the community needs to stop tolerating barbaric behavior from their own.

I teach at an inner city community college, in a neighborhood peopled by good folks. When a crime happened last year at our college (Felony assault and robbery), the perpetrator's mom turned him in. HIS MOM. Why? She said she wasn't going to watch the neighborhood get worse.

No policing is better than self-policing.

Anyone supporting these 'checkpoints' should turn in their social security card and leave the damn country.

WTF is wrong with people!? Why in the HELL should anyone put up with this!?

If the black community gave half as much of a crap about policing itself, the rest of america wouldn't have to do it for them.

Starts with your families, gentlemen. Or lack thereof.

Blame everyone else, its what you do.

Weaver95: Anyone supporting these 'checkpoints' should turn in their social security card and leave the damn country.

I don't like the idea either, but let's face it, if you are white and driving around North St. Louis city, you are either going to buy Krakow sausage from Piekatowski's or crack cocaine. Either way, you are risking your life, and the cops will pull you over and let you know that you are likely to die if you don't leave.

/driving while white...heh
//rest of StL is pretty nice.
///mmmmm...piekatowski's Krakow sausage.

Generation_D: If the black community gave half as much of a crap about policing itself, the rest of america wouldn't have to do it for them.

Starts with your families, gentlemen. Or lack thereof.

Blame everyone else, its what you do.

That still does not excuse the rest of us for shredding the US Constitution and allowing the police to install 'check point charlie' in the middle of D.C! You know - the nation's capital? THAT place?

Land of the free, but only if you clear the police checkpoint. Thank you citizen! move along!

Unshavenhelga: The cops are wrong here, but there needs to be a 2 pronged attack here. Instead of saying "Trinidad should not be treated like Baghdad," said Mark Thompson, the leader of the NAACP's local police task force," Thompson might suggest that the community needs to stop tolerating barbaric behavior from their own.

I teach at an inner city community college, in a neighborhood peopled by good folks. When a crime happened last year at our college (Felony assault and robbery), the perpetrator's mom turned him in. HIS MOM. Why? She said she wasn't going to watch the neighborhood get worse.

No policing is better than self-policing.

That was honestly painful to read. I think you just contradicted yourself, but damn if I can tell for certain.

The mom that turned her son in was right to do so. Responsibility. Not tolerating barbaric behavior from "One of her own." This is self-policing by the community - which is better than no policing at all. Note that I said self-policing, not vigilantism.

You teach? Let me guess - English?

Generation_D: If the black community gave half as much of a crap about policing itself, the rest of america wouldn't have to do it for them.

Starts with your families, gentlemen. Or lack thereof.

Blame everyone else, its what you do.

That's right, it's black people's fault.

The ACLU has done some Douchebag things in the past few years but they really deserve respect for this.

if the ACLU was smart, they'd just challenge these checkpoints and have the entire concept thrown out.

I have absolutely no problem with this so long as every single interaction is recorded and there is an independent audit to make sure every car turned away was turned away for a legitimate reason.

BUT DEY LIEK NAMBLA INSTED OF BOY SCOUTS

CarolynLibrarian, I think he means that there is no form of policing better than self-policing.

Weaver95: Anyone supporting these 'checkpoints' should turn in their social security card and leave the damn country.

WTF is wrong with people!? Why in the HELL should anyone put up with this!?

Amen.

Makes me think of...

1) "Papers please"
2) "I'm from your government, and I'm here to help you"

/sound of puke hitting the floor

First off, what the police are doing is absolutely wrong...

Second, while I usually agree with the ACLU... Maybe rather than "policiing the police" they could, you know, come up with a solution of their own? Something to better their community rather than attack those who are trying to help (albeit in a very very wrong manner).

You know who else blocked off neighborhoods and restricted access to specific ethnic groups and demanded to see identification papers at checkpoints...

I wonder if, "I'm driving around to look for 'for rent' signs" would fly as a legitimate reason?

CarolynLibrarian: Unshavenhelga: No policing is better than self-policing

* * *
You teach? Let me guess - English?

Took me a few seconds to realize helga meant: There is no policing more effective than self-policing.

The_Gallant_Gallstone:
Right-click, save. I'm not sure how, but I think that pic has made my day.
Thanks!

SilentStrider: if the ACLU was smart, they'd just challenge these checkpoints and have the entire concept thrown out.

Unfortuantely, I think SCOTUS has upheld the legality of DUI checkpoints and roadblocks. Actions like this are really only an extention of that idea, so it's likely that this version of SCOTUS won't block the actions of the police with stuff like this.

MADD and the War on Drugs - always knew they'd f*ck the country in the end.

"You are bothering innocent people," said Diane Kemp, who has lived in the Trinidad neighborhood for 16 years. "I know I live here, so why should I have to show my ID?"

Sorry, citizen but bothering innocent people is in our job description. Move along.

/At least we know who's watching the watchers

fta: "George Saxton of Capitol Hill was pulled over in his black Ford Focus after dropping off his niece near the checkpoint. He said those who are complaining about the initiative probably have something to hide."

I hope he doesn't vote... :(

Um, did anyone even read the article? The ACLU is against the police checkpoints and they're saying they're going to monitor what the police are doing, not set up their own checkpoints.

FTFA:

The checkpoints have drawn harsh criticism from civil rights groups.

"Trinidad should not be treated like Baghdad," said Mark Thompson, the leader of the NAACP's local police task force.

Thompson was joined Saturday morning by about a dozen activists representing myriad groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, at the intersection where the checkpoints began in the evening. They warned of legal action if residents' constitutional rights were violated.

"It seems interesting that police are willing to easily cast aside fundamental freedoms for quick-fix, lazy law enforcement tactics," said Johnny Barnes, executive director of the ACLU for the National Capital Area. "We're going to do everything to make sure that the rights of citizens are protected."

Good reading comprehension, folks.

"He said those who are complaining about the initiative probably have something to hide."

Why is that always the dumbasses' answer?

Well, Iraq is now a peaceful utopia so I don't see why we wouldn't use the same methods that worked there.

George Saxton of Capitol Hill was pulled over in his black Ford Focus after dropping off his niece near the checkpoint. He said those who are complaining about the initiative probably have something to hide.


George Saxton of Capitol Hill is a f*cking moron who's helping to destroy this country. Thank you, George Saxton of Capitol Hill! You are the winner of today's 'Dumbass of the Internet' award!

CarolynLibrarian : You must be a lot of fun to hand with.

/Cataloger?

Weaver95: SilentStrider: if the ACLU was smart, they'd just challenge these checkpoints and have the entire concept thrown out.

Unfortuantely, I think SCOTUS has upheld the legality of DUI checkpoints and roadblocks. Actions like this are really only an extention of that idea, so it's likely that this version of SCOTUS won't block the actions of the police with stuff like this.

MADD and the War on Drugs - always knew they'd f*ck the country in the end.

DUI checkpoints have been upheld, but checkpoints designed to uncover general criminal activity have been struck down in the past, as seen in City of Indianapolis v. Edmond.

I guarantee legal challenges to these checkpoints are currently under way. The problem is, it's going to take some time for this to wind its way through the courts.

Hender: The ACLU is against the police checkpoints

Seriously? That can't be right. The ACLU would never oppose a curtailing of our freedoms if it means that the police would be better able to protect us from ourselves.

"He said those who are complaining about the initiative probably have something to hide."

"Those who are willing to trade their liberties for personal security deserve neither and will lose both" --some smart person

////not sure if I got the quote right

Bring back the Constitution!

Restore gun ownership to law-abiding citizens.

Problem solved.

medius: Seriously? That can't be right. The ACLU would never oppose a curtailing of our freedoms if it means that the police would be better able to protect us from ourselves.

I'm just sayin', sounded like a lot of people above thought the ACLU was behind the checkpoints.

medius: CarolynLibrarian: Unshavenhelga: No policing is better than self-policing

* * *
You teach? Let me guess - English?

Took me a few seconds to realize helga meant: There is no policing more effective than self-policing.

Ah. That makes far more sense. But it could have been expressed better.

And The_Gallant_Gallstone - not once did I mention spelling or apostrophe use. So Nyah.

I can't believe I've been Godwinned by a Gallstone.

Madame Ovary: CarolynLibrarian : You must be a lot of fun to hand with.

/Cataloger?

I'm even more fun to foot with.

^/WTF?

devioustrevor: I have absolutely no problem with this so long as every single interaction is recorded and there is an independent audit to make sure every car turned away was turned away for a legitimate reason.

Please name me just one single "legitimate" reason to restrict a person's freedom of movement on public roads. Other than a wreck or emergency that is.

This type of thing would have been shocking 10 years ago and simply would not have happened 20 years ago. Some people want to blame the post 9-11 climate of fear but that's really not the case as I see it. The fact is that the right to life and the right to the safety of your person and your property trump other rights. As the society breaks down in morals and personal responsibility the government steps in to protect life and property. Also, the dirty little secret here is that they are looking for white people. The only reason a white person visits these areas is to score drugs.

Dad, don't you see you're abusing your power like all vigilantes? I mean, if you're the police, who will police the police?

I dunno... Coast Guard?

May their chains rest lightly....

yEAH, universal healthcare, well that sounds like SOCIALISM, boy!

Checkpoints throughout our cities where you will be asked for papers, intentions, and possibly a random search of your vehicle?

POSITIVELY AMERICAN, BABY.

It fun how everyone jumps to the worse case scenario that because there are checkpoints it mean OMGZ LOZ THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OVER!!!!

If a neighborhood is getting to the point where it is constant violence what else would you suggest the police do? The same old foot patrols and occasional drive around to deter people? That obviously has not worked. The police are doing what they think will get the job done. I agree that there should be oversight, but everything has oversight and this really does not warrant anything special.

Maybe rather than "policiing the police" they could, you know, come up with a solution of their own? Something to better their community rather than attack those who are trying to help (albeit in a very very wrong manner).

"Trying to help (albeit in a very very wrong manner)" = not helping. It doesn't matter what your intentions are when the effects of your actions are wildly unacceptable.

It is neither the ACLU's obligation nor its chosen mission to help enforce the law. Its self-appointed task is to protect personal freedoms. Personal freedoms are being violated by police actions, so they are criticizing and opposing those actions.

ActionJoe: It fun how everyone jumps to the worse case scenario that because there are checkpoints it mean OMGZ LOZ THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OVER!!!!

If a neighborhood is getting to the point where it is constant violence what else would you suggest the police do? The same old foot patrols and occasional drive around to deter people? That obviously has not worked. The police are doing what they think will get the job done. I agree that there should be oversight, but everything has oversight and this really does not warrant anything special.

This. Like I posted above, as society breaks down the government becomes more intrusive.

earlm: This type of thing would have been shocking 10 years ago and simply would not have happened 20 years ago. Some people want to blame the post 9-11 climate of fear but that's really not the case as I see it. The fact is that the right to life and the right to the safety of your person and your property trump other rights. As the society breaks down in morals and personal responsibility the government steps in to protect life and property. Also, the dirty little secret here is that they are looking for white people.

As long as the trains run on time, right earlm?

The only reason a white person visits these areas is to score drugs.

I assume you mean "because no right-thinking white person would associate with the coloreds". Amiright, Grand Kleagle?

ActionJoe: If a neighborhood is getting to the point where it is constant violence what else would you suggest the police do? The same old foot patrols and occasional drive around to deter people?

I would suggest that they do nothing at all before I suggested that they set up checkpoints on public roads that determined whether your purpose for entering was "legitimate."

I would suggest that they do nothing at all before I suggested that they impose themselves on the lives of people who are innocent and who are not suspected of any crime.


The police are doing what they think will get the job done.

Irrelevant. Shooting jaywalkers on sight would rapidly eliminate jaywalking. That doesn't mean that it's an acceptable method for controlling it.


I agree that there should be oversight, but everything has oversight and this really does not warrant anything special.

Yes, it does, since its very existence is unconstitutional.

dahmers love zombie: earlm: This type of thing would have been shocking 10 years ago and simply would not have happened 20 years ago. Some people want to blame the post 9-11 climate of fear but that's really not the case as I see it. The fact is that the right to life and the right to the safety of your person and your property trump other rights. As the society breaks down in morals and personal responsibility the government steps in to protect life and property. Also, the dirty little secret here is that they are looking for white people.

As long as the trains run on time, right earlm?
The only reason a white person visits these areas is to score drugs.

I assume you mean "because no right-thinking white person would associate with the coloreds". Amiright, Grand Kleagle?

Way to put words in someone's mouth. Ask a cop. They know that it's not the norm and they are on the lookout for a drug transaction when they see a white person in those areas.

Weaver95: and the War on Drugs - always knew they'd f*ck the country in the end.

But... won't you think of the children?

I'm with you on this one. Our elected monkeys has tossed their collective feces on our rule of law and turned the average citizen into a criminal - until proven innocent.

The lot of them need to be handed a pink slip and a memo explaining that they aren't entitled to congressional pension.

Outshined_One:

Yeah, but the way my local cop shop gets around that problem is they just call it a 'safety checkpoint'. Then they stop EVERYONE, check ID, inspection sticker and vehicle registration. All this while looking over the car, the back seat and the driver to see if there's anything suspicious about them, check for any outstanding warrants and make arrests/write tickets as needed.

So technically the cops aren't stopping people to check for general criminal activity, they're doing it for 'saftey'. The fact that they 'accidentially' found a reason to write all those tickets and arrest all those people had nothing to do with it.

I saw one of those 'safety' checkpoints on one of the main roads out of town last week. I went 5 miles out of my way to avoid going thru it too, since it farking pissed me off.

WxAxGxS: First off, what the police are doing is absolutely wrong...

Second, while I usually agree with the ACLU... Maybe rather than "policiing the police" they could, you know, come up with a solution of their own? Something to better their community rather than attack those who are trying to help (albeit in a very very wrong manner).

With what authority? The ACLU isn't Blackwater...it's not like there's gun-toting ACLU Mercs to man checkpoints. They are watching to make sure that people's civil liberties aren't violated--which is their job.

davynelson: yEAH, universal healthcare, well that sounds like SOCIALISM, boy!

Checkpoints throughout our cities where you will be asked for papers, intentions, and possibly a random search of your vehicle?

POSITIVELY AMERICAN, BABY.


I disagree with both. For the most part, I get annoyed with the ACLU, but in this case, I support them. I don't like checkpoints. This was the sort of thing that we were always supposed to be against. Back in the old days, they would mock the Soviets for setting up checkpoints and demanding a person's identity papers, now we do it on the streets of our own capitol city.

This whole thing is just more proof that it doesn't matter which of the major political parties you support. Washington, DC is as solidly Democraticlly controlled as is possible, and they are the ones pullng this crap. You can't even claim that it is a bunch of right wing neo-facist asshats, because this is a city that will go 95% for Obama in the fall.

Not that this is a ringing endorsement of the Republicans either. I'm sure they wouldn't have too much of a problem with it either, since they are the "get tough on crime" party. Fark both sides.