"If it's in my pants ... I'm probably not going to do anything with it."

Ahh, compensating. I see. Hence the need to carry openly?

Just kidding, had to gt that in here before the Nancy-boys start up.

I think open carry is a great idea. Wish I could do it in NJ, but this state is too fascist for such freedoms.

Oh, but one guy was openly walking down the street with a shotgun and opened fire when police tried to stop him.... everybody panic!!!

The City of Phoenix has open carry laws. Most polite town I've ever been in.

"We're going to the children's museum and then to the store to pick up some things for lunch. See you later."

TFA:

Hassles with law enforcement were a badge of honor for some.

Travis White, 19, ... said. "It'll make you feel brave."


This is the kind of thinking that makes this situation dangerous. It isn't good when people start feeling "brave" or like they are gaining "honor" because they have an armed confrontation with the police. I 100% support OC, but I wish that I could feel more confident that all of the people doing it were better educated on the carrying and use of guns. The majority, in my experience, of people carrying openly or concealed are well educated on use and safety. However, if OC begins to take off more then I am concerned that we will start seeing more and more people carrying just carry and not knowing how to handle their weapon. Anybody can carry a weapon, but without knowledge of proper use and safety they are more likely to bring added and unnecessary danger to any situation in which they may feel the need to unholster it.

any one care to guess my opinion of this?..lol.

The only laws I know of that might prevent this is local city ordinances going back to the days of Wyatt Earp. When I go to the hills, I'm always openly packing. We have cougars, wolves and bears here. And armed illegals doing pot grows in the mountains.

The CA guns laws are one of the reasons I might not take a job in CA. It seems that the state only wants cops and the criminals to have a gun.

BGates: The CA guns laws are one of the reasons I might not take a job in CA. It seems that the state only wants cops and the criminals to have a gun.

yep.

GaryPDX: any one care to guess my opinion of this?..lol.

The only laws I know of that might prevent this is local city ordinances going back to the days of Wyatt Earp. When I go to the hills, I'm always openly packing. We have cougars, wolves and bears here. And armed illegals doing pot grows in the mountains.

Then if you do move, legally you have to register each handgun with the police. And if that gun isn't on the list of approved handguns you have to either surrender it to the police or remove it from the state. I have a custom 1911 that technically isn't CA legal because the state hasn't test fired it. So if I have to use it and it's not registered I can go to jail for defending myself.

Just hope Obama doesn't get elected or the whole US could turn into a CA.

Ron Paul Revere: BGates: Just hope Obama doesn't get elected or the whole US could turn into a CA.

I keep hearing this argument from people, and I keep giving the same answer:

The Supreme Court is going to find the 2nd Amendment ensures an individual right to bear arms. To what extent they will take it, I obviously can't tell you, but I'm quite sure this conservative-leaning court will make the right call. With that in mind, you really don't have much to worry about from Obama on that issue. He won't be running on that platform because Dems figured out in the last decade that it's a losing issue, and the Democratically controlled Congress is unlikely to risk their majority by pushing for it.

Calm down.

Yea..I agree. After listening to the DC v Heller arguments, I'm pretty confident it will be put to rest for good. The Justices had DC conceding "individual" right in the first 20 minutes. It was quite amusing.

BGates: Then if you do move, legally you have to register each handgun with the police. And if that gun isn't on the list of approved handguns you have to either surrender it to the police or remove it from the state. I have a custom 1911 that technically isn't CA legal because the state hasn't test fired it. So if I have to use it and it's not registered I can go to jail for defending myself.

I won't be moving anywhere like that anytime soon..:)

I almost moved to California from South Florida, as the surfing here is terrible, but the gun laws were a big detractor. Recently, with the bullsharks going apeshiate in soCal, I believe I made the right call on both counts.

Ron Paul Revere: Calm down.

You know who else said "calm down?"

Here's the thing: what's more likely to happen with people with guns out in the open? Is it that they're going to use them to actually defend themselves from a real threat, or that they're going to get pissed off in traffic, say, and pull out the gun and start blasting?

I just think that having a gun so handy increases the chances of it being used exponentially.

Ron Paul Revere: real shaman: You know who else said "calm down?"

Douglas Adams?

Nice.

jake_lex: Here's the thing: what's more likely to happen with people with guns out in the open? Is it that they're going to use them to actually defend themselves from a real threat, or that they're going to get pissed off in traffic, say, and pull out the gun and start blasting?

I just think that having a gun so handy increases the chances of it being used exponentially.

So?..idiots that can't control their tempers will either be dead or captured. Two things, others will be able to defend themselves and we'll save bazillions of tax dollars housing prisoners.

win win.

jake_lex: I just think that having a gun so handy increases the chances of it being used exponentially.

P(using a gun when you do not have one) < P(using a gun when you do have one)

That's some fine police work there, Lou ;)

I agree it increases the potential for misuse, which is why I'm a strong advocate of educating those who wish to carry. I am all for CC or OC, but I also think that it needs to be regulated in order to help ensure public safety.

I once considered open carrying here in Vegas, but I ultimately decided against it because it's likely to draw unwanted attention, especially in any gaming establishment.

In fact, I don't know for sure, but I think it's possible Nevada might even have a law against open carrying in a casino unless you're a cop or security. In public, though, it is legal.

jake_lex: Here's the thing: what's more likely to happen with people with guns out in the open? Is it that they're going to use them to actually defend themselves from a real threat, or that they're going to get pissed off in traffic, say, and pull out the gun and start blasting?

I just think that having a gun so handy increases the chances of it being used exponentially.

Yep, it's all over the news all the time about the road rage gunfights in Phoenix.

Like I said earlier, an armed society is a polite society.

Epsilon: In fact, I don't know for sure, but I think it's possible Nevada might even have a law against open carrying in a casino unless you're a cop or security. In public, though, it is legal.

It is typically illegal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. In Phoenix, you check your piece at the door. Most clubs have a peg board rack to hang em on.

Ron Paul Revere: Your solution is to remove them.

My solution is to make illegal possession of a firearm a charge which carries a penalty similar to attempted murder.

Essentially, the most effective way we can balance gun rights while curbing gun violence is to be 100x tougher on illegal uses of firearms. Not only will this prevent those who commit such crimes from becoming repeat offenders (long jail sentences), the deterrent effect will be quite strong.

But this is a far too logical solution to ever be instated.

Unlawful gun possession is already a serious crime. Law abiding, tax paying citizens carrying firearms is nothing to fear at all. They want a peaceful society just like everyone else, even more so. Most carriers have to be looked over good by local law enforcement and it generally takes a County "Sheriff" to sign off. Most law enforcement view these folks as welcome help.

For me it all boils back to self defense and I don't want to be limited in any way to that end. My judgment is sound, that's the only thing I can really count on in the moments of serious danger. I'd rather NOT be cowering in the hopes the police arrive before some idiot shoots me down like a dog.

Just a view. It takes 8-10 minutes for authorities to show up where I live..a LOT can happen in 8 minutes.

Ron Paul Revere: real shaman: It is typically illegal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. In Phoenix, you check your piece at the door. Most clubs have a peg board rack to hang em on.

That sounds like my kinda town. Seriously awesome. Though I'd be slightly worried about some bouncer making off with my piece.

yea..here it's government buildings, schools (which is under debate) and anywhere that serves alcohol. Alcohol and guns DO NOT MIX..:)

Ron Paul Revere: GaryPDX: Unlawful gun possession is already a serious crime.

Yes, it's a felony, but the penalty is obviously not strong enough. Otherwise we wouldn't have the astronomical levels of gun violence in this country that we do.


I see your point and generally agree. Just to clarify..any crime is exponentially increased jail time when a gun is involved. Second offenses with guns will usually end up with life terms by any practical sense already. Soo..my point being..anyone who chooses to commit a crime with a gun pretty much knows he's farked if he's caught. I think..maybe a little harder..but there's not a lot room already.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

Ron Paul Revere: I just don't think a second offense should be possible as soon as it is. The penalty should be somewhere in the realm of 15-20 years for any crime involving a gun, with lowest early release priority in regards to overcrowding and minimal time-off for good behavior (have to serve at least 75% of the sentence).

If this were how we treated gun crime, the deterrent effect combined with the inability to re-offend within a few years would drastically reduce gun violence in our country. The sad truth is that our justice system is failing us horrifically in this arena.

The only time I see second offenses is when no body was hurt the first time. If someone gets injured..they're going down the first time..:)

Where it trips it for me is anyone who consciously crosses that mental Rubicon of using a gun illegally, they become a danger to be stopped cold by whatever means..:)

/hooah

I carry concealed weapons all the time. Every day. Every minute I'm out of the house.

I'd prefer to openly carry becuase I could carry a bigger gun but it's a social no-no around here even though I'm 99% sure it's legal.

If you are seriously interested in open carry, opencarry.org (pops) is a must read. It provides general guidelines broken out by state. The forums have some interesting insights from people who practice open carry. For instance, it seems that Aurora, CO police have a standing policy of running you out of town even though it is perfectly legal.

/Personally Prefer CC since I don't like drawing attention to myself.

Ron Paul Revere: GaryPDX: The only time I see second offenses is when no body was hurt the first time.

I can see that for illegal possession only. If one brandishes a gun illegally, regardless of whether they fire or only draw to scare, there is no legitimate excuse. We cannot allow a slap on the wrist for such wanton disregard for the law and the right of the people to be secure.

All the more reason to carry..stop them right then and there. No fuss no muss.

Laz Long: If you are seriously interested in open carry, opencarry.org (pops) is a must read. It provides general guidelines broken out by state. The forums have some interesting insights from people who practice open carry. For instance, it seems that Aurora, CO police have a standing policy of running you out of town even though it is perfectly legal.

/Personally Prefer CC since I don't like drawing attention to myself.

Hey...thanks!!..great site. Yea open carry generally centers on local town ordinances. They got Oregon spot on..few places in Oregon prohibit open carry. And by "loaded", they mean "chambered" for CC holders.

Firearms may be openly carried in cars without any license except where localities have made open carry illegal; however, an Oregon concealed handgun permit holder is exempt from all local open carry bans. To our knowledge, only the cities of Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence have passed loaded firearms bans encompassing all public places.

Ron Paul Revere: GaryPDX: All the more reason to carry..stop them right then and there. No fuss no muss.

Agreed. I just like the two-pronged approach that doesn't solely rely on reaction. You know the old saying.. an ounce of prevention, pound of cure, all that?

yup

Ron Paul Revere: GaryPDX: yup

OK. Now to wait for this thread to go green and watch Fark liters somehow find a problem with this solution and/or post without reading the thread and make asses of themselves.

Correct. It's only a matter of time.

What could go wrong? If you're stupid about it, arresting for "brandishing". If you're really stupid, step into a post office.

Open carry ftw.

Hell yes, if stupid would-be criminals saw everyone packing heat they'd think twice before robbing and possibly killing someone over the $39.63 left in the cash register.

/probably?
//hopefully?
///nah, they're dum, that's why they're criminals
//but so is the population of teh white house

i can't understand how people could feel so threatened and vulnerable that they feel the need to carry around a gun on their hip. sad face. people are scared of their own shadows these days

the increasing militarization of the police coupled with how they seem to see us (civilians) as more of an enemy than than anything else, why shouldn't we carry? if those tasked to protect us see as enemies, then we should protect ourselves.

Open carry is legal, right?

/I see it from time to time...

Overcompensating pussies.

I live in Wyoming and Colorado and have open carried many times. For the boring life I lead, it's mostly unnecessary. H&K's version of a .45 "compact" USP pistol still weighs heavy on my belt and I usually end up just leaving it in my truck when I go out.

I'm more concerned with a surprise encounter with a portable meth lab when I'm off-roading on BLM land more than being caught in a gas station hold up.

Also, FWIW, the UofC grad student in the photo would catch hell in court for using a single action revolver in a self-defense shooting.

Cops don't want you to have a gun.

/film at 11

I liked the last line of the article about irrational fears. Kind of puts everything in perspective.

That pic in the article of that lames ass hick packing his gun at STARBUCKS of all places is quite comical. Now, if I was going to a horrible part of town, etc. open carry would make sense. Going to pick up a latte?? I don't think so

GaryPDX: BGates: The CA guns laws are one of the reasons I might not take a job in CA. It seems that the state only wants cops and the criminals to have a gun.

yep.

States' Rights FTW!

Just don't take your gun into a strip club, get drunk, then start harassing the dancer who you want to make into your whore for the night.

real shaman: jake_lex: Here's the thing: what's more likely to happen with people with guns out in the open? Is it that they're going to use them to actually defend themselves from a real threat, or that they're going to get pissed off in traffic, say, and pull out the gun and start blasting?

I just think that having a gun so handy increases the chances of it being used exponentially.

Yep, it's all over the news all the time about the road rage gunfights in Phoenix.

Like I said earlier, an armed society is a polite society.

Be nice to me or I'll farking kill you.

Ron Paul Revere

BGates: Just hope Obama doesn't get elected or the whole US could turn into a CA.

I keep hearing this argument from people, and I keep giving the same answer:

The Supreme Court is going to find the 2nd Amendment ensures an individual right to bear arms. To what extent they will take it, I obviously can't tell you, but I'm quite sure this conservative-leaning court will make the right call. With that in mind, you really don't have much to worry about from Obama on that issue. He won't be running on that platform because Dems figured out in the last decade that it's a losing issue, and the Democratically controlled Congress is unlikely to risk their majority by pushing for it.

Calm down.

So what effect do you see that having on states with stricter gun laws? Not being a pain in the ass here, just wondering if we'll ever see open carry in New Jersey. (I've all but given up hope on concealed carry.)

That is some of the most ignorant shiat I've ever read.


Guns will NEVER be the same as iPods or jewelry because they kill people. That's like saying you want to make tridents the new fashion statement.

I think Neal Stephenson wrote about this in Cryptonomicon back in 1999.

Good, I'm tired of criminals not having enough access to guns. Its so boring with the knives and punching and whatnot.

Now all you'll need to do is sneak up and knife someone with a gun, and voila - you have a gun!

phillydrifter: if stupid would-be criminals saw everyone packing heat they'd think twice before robbing and possibly killing someone over the $39.63 left in the cash register.

If I were about to hold up a liquor store, and saw everyone was armed, I think I'd buy a candy bar and leave...

/whistling

real shaman: The City of Phoenix has open carry laws. Most polite town I've ever been in.

OK, I've only been in the Phoenix metro area for 11 months, but the only time I've ever seen anyone who isn't a cop carrying openly has been at the rifle range and at a gun show. I spend most of my time in the East Valley as that's where I live, which may be different from Phoenix proper. Now that I will be employed again soon, I will be spending part of my paycheck on a rifle and a shotgun. No handguns yet though... maybe later.

Ron Paul Revere: BGates: Just hope Obama doesn't get elected or the whole US could turn into a CA.

I keep hearing this argument from people, and I keep giving the same answer:

The Supreme Court is going to find the 2nd Amendment ensures an individual right to bear arms. To what extent they will take it, I obviously can't tell you, but I'm quite sure this conservative-leaning court will make the right call. With that in mind, you really don't have much to worry about from Obama on that issue. He won't be running on that platform because Dems figured out in the last decade that it's a losing issue, and the Democratically controlled Congress is unlikely to risk their majority by pushing for it.

Calm down.

They gotta grasp whatever straws they can. Muslim, Communist, Uppity, etc. seem to be ineffective.

As will be the "Obama want to take your guns!" nonsense.

Pathetic, really.