Good headline subby, that's what I was thinking. As if we didn't know already.



"Wait, major media outlets are trumpets for corporate propaganda? As IF!"

keiverarrow: "Wait, major media outlets are trumpets for corporate propaganda? As IF!".

Well, some of us remember when this wasn't true.

/not as true, anyway

Tin foil..get your tin foil right here.

...NBC executives...
...Network Executives...

While this is a story that needs more air-time, this piece would be better served by naming these people directly. ..Or, (one of the readers comments)

Who are the corp executives?

Glenn:

Is it possible to work up a list of the names of the corporate executives you are talking about here? (The one who wrote the memo about Donahue's difficult face, etc.) And then we could track them, see what they're doing now, and keep reminding them about how uphappy we customers are with their product.

GaryPDX: Tin foil..get your tin foil right here.

Do you honestly believe that nobody in the media was critical of the president during the time from 09/12/2001 until around 03/2003, when there was almost no detractions in the media of anything the president said? It is kinda odd to look back on.

GAT_00: GaryPDX: Tin foil..get your tin foil right here.

Do you honestly believe that nobody in the media was critical of the president during the time from 09/12/2001 until around 03/2003, when there was almost no detractions in the media of anything the president said? It is kinda odd to look back on.

What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans. To get all sanctimonious now is kinda cheezy. We all wear some of that dirt.

Remember the Maine!

GaryPDX: What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans. To get all sanctimonious now is kinda cheezy. We all wear some of that dirt.

I'm not saying I didn't want payback. I have never been critical of the troops in Afghanistan, and I'm still pissed Bush was too much of a pansy to go into the Pakistan mountains to find bin Laden. But that does not mean that the actions of the president should not be subject to scrutiny.

GaryPDX: What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans.

how quickly we forget all the people who spoke against the war and were called all sorts of nasty names for doing so.

some of us were more shocked by the stupidity of attacking iraq than we were about anything else.

GAT_00: GaryPDX: What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans. To get all sanctimonious now is kinda cheezy. We all wear some of that dirt.

I'm not saying I didn't want payback. I have never been critical of the troops in Afghanistan, and I'm still pissed Bush was too much of a pansy to go into the Pakistan mountains to find bin Laden. But that does not mean that the actions of the president should not be subject to scrutiny.

I didn't say a president, or any politician for that matter, is above scrutiny but the way this is framed implies people blindly follow what's advertised. And that's true..look at shampoo commercials. But to heap all blame on "Evil Republican Corporations" is a very large stretch.

burndtdan: GaryPDX: What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans.

how quickly we forget all the people who spoke against the war and were called all sorts of nasty names for doing so.

some of us were more shocked by the stupidity of attacking iraq than we were about anything else.

I spoke against Iraq as well. I thought it was a very bad idea. But my opinions were from a tactical standpoint, not a political one.

GaryPDX: What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans. To get all sanctimonious now is kinda cheezy. We all wear some of that dirt.

We need to seriously investigate these allegations and hold the fourth estate accountable for what is found.

The problems with media consolidation is one issue. If a political, ideological, financial, etc. slant is to be found from the Media executives, we should at least be aware of it for the next time something is hyped.

Party Boy: The problems with media consolidation is one issue. If a political, ideological, financial, etc. slant is to be found from the Media executives, we should at least be aware of it for the next time something is hyped.

lol..always follow the money..lol.

burndtdan: how quickly we forget all the people who spoke against the war and were called all sorts of nasty names for doing so.

Demoted or fired as well.

GaryPDX: I didn't say a president, or any politician for that matter, is above scrutiny but the way this is framed implies people blindly follow what's advertised. And that's true..look at shampoo commercials. But to heap all blame on "Evil Republican Corporations" is a very large stretch.

I'm not blaming Republican corporations. I'm blaming the media for caving and not actually being reporters. They've pretty much forgotten how to report the news at this point.

Party Boy: burndtdan: how quickly we forget all the people who spoke against the war and were called all sorts of nasty names for doing so.

Demoted or fired as well.

This is because everyone was in shock. Most people didn't want to hear about it at the time. This is a form of mass hysteria that I constantly warn about. Whether it's a natural disaster or a war or civil unrest..it all is a form of mass hysteria. I am concerned we're about to do it again as the pendulum swings the other way.

GaryPDX: lol..always follow the money..lol.

Generally, I find monocausal explanations to be weak when you look at a bigger picture. This is especially so when we dont even have names of these people to look at this problem inductively (which is, really, the only way to handle it).

We need to determine who these people are specifically and investigate the many ideological/material possible avenues for this slant.

GAT_00: I'm not blaming Republican corporations. I'm blaming the media for caving and not actually being reporters. They've pretty much forgotten how to report the news at this point.

Man..you and I are in complete agreement there. This time around the slant is toward Obama.

GaryPDX: This is because everyone was in shock.

No other possible reasons can exist for you? No need to investigate this further?

GaryPDX: This time around the slant is toward Obama.
oh no.

Party Boy: GaryPDX: This is because everyone was in shock.

No other possible reasons can exist for you? No need to investigate this further?

No..there's always reason to investigate so we don't make those mistakes again as a people. I just think that's the causal focal point. Most people went right along with it at the time.

GaryPDX: I just think that's the causal focal point.

Do you have evidence to support this bold claim, which positions shock as primary above a multitude of other possible motives?

Party Boy: GaryPDX: This time around the slant is toward Obama.
oh no.

Over the last 30 years I've seen this pendulum swing both ways. The Dems, then the Republicans and back again. They're like Frik and Frak from my point of view because I'm not a "party" kind of person. To me. Parties operate exactly like churches. Bad idea...ask George Washington.

Back and forth..back and forth. This time it's toward the Dems. They'll go too far too and then it will swing again in 4 to 8 years. Back and forth.

Party Boy: GaryPDX: I just think that's the causal focal point.

Do you have evidence to support this bold claim, which positions shock as primary above a multitude of other possible motives?

It's just an opinion. Both sides take their respective ideologies too far sometimes. Again..the mass hysteria..the mob rule of sorts.

GaryPDX: Man..you and I are in complete agreement there. This time around the slant is toward Obama.

In all honesty, I don't see that. I see neutrality towards McCain, and an adoration of Hillary. What else do you call all those BS stories they've come up with for him? They are definitely trying to pretend they never did anything like that though I've noticed this week.

GaryPDX: No..there's always reason to investigate so we don't make those mistakes again as a people. I just think that's the causal focal point. Most people went right along with it at the time.

So if this happened again when Obama was president, and everyone just went along with whatever they did, you'd have no problem with it?

"You've got to keep repeating things over and over and over again, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

GaryPDX: It's just an opinion.

I think its good for us, collectively, to seriously challenge our own assertions. If we really don't know the answer, we should really try to investigate it rigorously or back off, as it may lead to assumptions built on an erroneous premise.

Personally, I would like to know more specifics on this story so I can look at some questions I am raising. Specifically, who are these "media moguls"? Do their have ideological/political/material motives or slants? What are those and how to they intersect with this story?

GAT_00: GaryPDX: No..there's always reason to investigate so we don't make those mistakes again as a people. I just think that's the causal focal point. Most people went right along with it at the time.

So if this happened again when Obama was president, and everyone just went along with whatever they did, you'd have no problem with it?

Ohhhh noooo no no. I don't follow crowds, period. That, in itself, is dangerous. However, if I feel unsafe voicing my opinion, I will keep my mouth shut out of self preservation and just get the hell out of the way.

GAT_00: What else do you call all those BS stories they've come up with for him? They are definitely trying to pretend they never did anything like that though I've noticed this week.

compare the fark politics tab for jan - may on Hillary stories with Hillary stories covered on TV.

I made up a list and wiped myself out trying to link the Hillary Meltdown for only 2 months.

on that note


Chris Matthews: MSNBC bosses were 'basically pro-war'

"The people I work with--all my bosses--seem to be for Hillary," he added. "I just sense it. They don't actually say it, but there's no sense from the top I can tell you that it's pro-Obama... by any means.

Party Boy: GaryPDX: It's just an opinion.

I think its good for us, collectively, to seriously challenge our own assertions. If we really don't know the answer, we should really try to investigate it rigorously or back off, as it may lead to assumptions built on an erroneous premise.

I attack and scrutinize all politicians by policy. I don't follow any of them blindly. I'm gonna piss them OFF questioning them because I think anyone who "wants" that stupid job is either a tyrant or a colossal thief. The only President that had the deal "spot on" was the first one, George Washington.

GaryPDX: I attack and scrutinize all politicians by policy. I don't follow any of them blindly. I'm gonna piss them OFF questioning them because I think anyone who "wants" that stupid job is either a tyrant or a colossal thief. The only President that had the deal "spot on" was the first one, George Washington.

Thats certainly important to not blindly follow a president without critique. By extension, its also important to look at our own arguments and see if we hold assumptions that could be improved and possibly modified or discarded with more rigorous scrutiny.

GaryPDX: Ohhhh noooo no no. I don't follow crowds, period. That, in itself, is dangerous. However, if I feel unsafe voicing my opinion, I will keep my mouth shut out of self preservation and just get the hell out of the way.

The fact that you don't see a problem with keeping your mouth shut is a problem in of itself.

good links and TFA in here
Washington reporters now in full meltdown, damage control mode after Bill Moyer's biatchslap of the Washington press corps collective loss of critical thinking in 2001-2003 on Iraq (151)

GAT_00: GaryPDX: Ohhhh noooo no no. I don't follow crowds, period. That, in itself, is dangerous. However, if I feel unsafe voicing my opinion, I will keep my mouth shut out of self preservation and just get the hell out of the way.

The fact that you don't see a problem with keeping your mouth shut is a problem in of itself.

That depends on the position you voice from. If you want your defiance to mean something you have to pick your battles.

This story of the media vis-a-vis iraq war coverage is still very coarse and, unfortunately, underinvestigated. I would really like to know more specifics and move this away from assertions about vague "executives" to people with names and identifiable motives.

Something to ponder..to me, Parties operate exactly like churches. We all know churches in government is very very bad.

Ponder this..

When there's a candidate of any party that is popular (pastor) he makes moving speeches and presents good ideas (sermon). They ask for your support with contributing to their campaign (passes the plate). The cycle grows and grows and you have a singular ideology taking hold.

See what I'm saying? Parties are just like churches mechanically. We are individuals and our government is constructed on "compromise".

GaryPDX: That depends on the position you voice from. If you want your defiance to mean something you have to pick your battles.

If you keep your mouth shut for one thing, then why not for the next little thing. And it snowballs. Ben Franklin got that one right.

GaryPDX: GAT_00: Do you honestly believe that nobody in the media was critical of the president during the time from 09/12/2001 until around 03/2003, when there was almost no detractions in the media of anything the president said? It is kinda odd to look back on.

What I believe is America was in shock and everyone wanted some payback at the time, including a LOT of democrat Americans. To get all sanctimonious now is kinda cheezy. We all wear some of that dirt.

WTF? That is some revisionist bullshiat. There were a huge number of people protesting the lead-up to the Iraq war and pointing out the media's lack of accountability every moment along the way.

However, if I feel unsafe voicing my opinion, I will keep my mouth shut out of self preservation and just get the hell out of the way.

You are a coward of the worst order.

Party Boy: I made up a list and wiped myself out trying to link the Hillary Meltdown for only 2 months.

True, there was that. That may be that Americans just love a good trainwreck. But even while they were chronicling her collapse, they were never saying anything about just how much damage she has done to the Democratic party.

GAT_00: GaryPDX: That depends on the position you voice from. If you want your defiance to mean something you have to pick your battles.

If you keep your mouth shut for one thing, then why not for the next little thing. And it snowballs. Ben Franklin got that one right.

First they have for the Gypsies...

Abbie Hoffman said it better: "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists".

GAT_00: True, there was that. That may be that Americans just love a good trainwreck. But even while they were chronicling her collapse, they were never saying anything about just how much damage she has done to the Democratic party.

No. Compare the multitude of different hillary farkups we covered only in the Fark politics tab (by no means all of them) and compare this with what the TV covered.

GaryPDX: Something to ponder..to me, Parties operate exactly like churches. We all know churches in government is very very bad.

Ponder this..

When there's a candidate of any party that is popular (pastor) he makes moving speeches and presents good ideas (sermon). They ask for your support with contributing to their campaign (passes the plate). The cycle grows and grows and you have a singular ideology taking hold.

See what I'm saying? Parties are just like churches mechanically. We are individuals and our government is constructed on "compromise".

1. How candidates spend their money, and how they get it, is far more regulated and watched than any spending a church does.
2. You are never forced to give money to any candidate, beyond the money that the government gives each one by default. You are never told that you are going to burn for a millennium by not giving money to a candidate.
3. Just how in the hell is compromise a bad thing?

Unright: However, if I feel unsafe voicing my opinion, I will keep my mouth shut out of self preservation and just get the hell out of the way.

You are a coward of the worst order.

I just LOVE how some people's only recourse to disagreement is name calling. Come try and take my freedom and I'll show you just how much of a coward I am.

GAT_00: 3. Just how in the hell is compromise a bad thing?

I didn't mean that..just the opposite. Compromise is the ONLY way to do things.

Party Boy: GAT_00: True, there was that. That may be that Americans just love a good trainwreck. But even while they were chronicling her collapse, they were never saying anything about just how much damage she has done to the Democratic party.

No. Compare the multitude of different hillary farkups we covered only in the Fark politics tab (by no means all of them) and compare this with what the TV covered.

That's my proof that the networks were pro-Hillary. Especially CNN, which I am now convinced the Republicans were right, it really is the Clinton News Network. I remember back during the campaigns, and I think it was on Super Tuesday, every other network, including FOX, had at the top of their page stuff like "Obama wins big," while CNN had "Hillary restructures her campaign" and in much, much smaller print far enough down the page to where you had to scroll to see it, "Obama wins primaries"

Unright: Abbie Hoffman said it better: "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists".

Good quote, I'll have to add it to my collection.

GaryPDX: I didn't mean that..just the opposite. Compromise is the ONLY way to do things.

Oh, I just misinterpreted that then, my bad.

GAT_00: True, there was that. That may be that Americans just love a good trainwreck. But even while they were chronicling her collapse, they were never saying anything about just how much damage she has done to the Democratic party.

What? That's bullshiat, too. PLenty of people were saying that.

GaryPDX: Unright: You are a coward of the worst order.

I just LOVE how some people's only recourse to disagreement is name calling. Come try and take my freedom and I'll show you just how much of a coward I am.

You and what army? By the time you muster up a fight, they'll have dragged away all the strange bedfellow allies you would have had.

"Don't rock the boat" is the constant lament of cowards.

Unright: What? That's bullshiat, too. PLenty of people were saying that.

Fair enough, but they were never loudly saying that, or having it as a leading story line. It was always added towards the back, or by a commentator. They were most certainly cheering her on.

then you have this pastor thing which has been covered for more than a year now.

Hillary has a nasty pastor no-one seems to want to cover

or (some, and not recent)
CLINTON'S NAFTA-GATE?

That Hillary Sniper fire story? Turns out the media knew about it for months and never ran it.

Lie - I Fought against Nafta.
After putting her name on a ballot she
pledged she wouldn't, Hillary is now attempting to pick and choose who
is allowed to vote for her in Michigan.
Clinton to Obama: you're inexperienced, too
liberal, wear scary Muslim garb, and you're all talk. You're perfect to
be my running mate.
Hillaty taking credit for the Family and Medical Leave Act


Clinton retracts promise of not threatening to sue Texas.
Lie- Hillary claims she helped broker Northern Ireland peace

Clinton:
"We're going to scrutinize Obama's record... or rather, the lack
thereof." Obama: "Fine, we're going to scrutinize Clinton's record...
or the lack thereof." Clinton camp "You're just like Ken Starr."
Hillary's "Experience" Lie.


Clinton Portrays Herself as a Pro-Gun Churchgoer. (Hillary on Gun Control)

Hillary's advisor, the one who was supposed to have resigned over the Columbia trade deal, didnt really resign.
Bill Clinton Lying about the sniper story. (Hillary tells Bill to shut the hell up about it)

The Worst Case of Cognitive Dissonance in the History of Modern Politics.
Hillary Lies again.
Hillary flip-flopping on bankruptcy bill.