When the fark is Washington gonna reel the mofo's in? After they declare war on a Federal Agency or after they seize a little piece of the US and declare it sovereign?

Nice to see Brazil hasn't given up on the Skyraider concept.

It has a jet engine....it's a fighter jet.

The 314-B1 Super Tucano propeller-driven fighter (new window)

This one isn't a jet. RTFA.

Meh, nothing new. Lots of companies operate "fighter" planes. Flight Systems International had a fleet of supersonic F-100s for many years. ATSI ^ has a bunch of A-4 attack jets. Plus the Blackwater Super Tucano will have its guns removed, so unless the government is going to allow them to play with the military's underwing ordnance (OK maybe they'll get their own gun or rocket pods made elsewhere, not sure on the legality of that, though), there isn't much that the little bugger'll be able to do as far as making things go boom.

Tr0mBoNe: The 314-B1 Super Tucano propeller-driven fighter (new window)

This one isn't a jet. RTFA.

From that Wiki link:

Armament

* 2x 12.7 mm FN Herstal M3P machine guns
* 1x 20 mm cannon pod below the fuselage
* 4x 70 mm rocket launcher pods
* Conventional and intelligent bombs
* 2x AIM-9 Sidewinder or MAA-1 Piranha or Python 3/4 air-to-air missiles
* External stores on 5 hardpoints


Might not be a jet, but it's not exactly a single-engine Cessna, either.

When will everyone realize this is all part of Liquid Ocelot's diabolical plan?

dahmers love zombie: Might not be a jet, but it's not exactly a single-engine Cessna, either.

I said it wasn't a jet... never that it was a puss. It kinda reminds me of a Spitfire.

They won't use it in Iraq. Now, Venezuela...well, we'll just have to see, won't we?

Irascible: When the fark is Washington gonna reel the mofo's in? After they declare war on a Federal Agency or after they seize a little piece of the US and declare it sovereign?

Blackwater is a wonderfully effective way to export cash and privatize the assets of the US without taking on the liabilities. Why on earth would they want to mess with that arrangement?

MisterTweak: Irascible: When the fark is Washington gonna reel the mofo's in? After they declare war on a Federal Agency or after they seize a little piece of the US and declare it sovereign?

Blackwater is a wonderfully effective way to export cash and privatize the assets of the US without taking on the liabilities. Why on earth would they want to mess with that arrangement?

Not to mention--they're pretty damned good at what they do...

"Oh blackwater keep on rollin'."

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No weapons for war? What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?

Wait, you mean Blackwater can't get F-22s?

ah3133: No weapons for war? What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?

Strongly worded letters.

Blackwater Security Mercenaries.


Let's cut the bullshiat, subby.

It's an...ughhh...armoured tractor.

Didn't RTFA, but headlinely speaking....

Is the suggestion that the Brazilians only like their weapons to be bought immediately prior to a conflict? This law sounds to me like some Brazilian arms exporters don't like the extra paperwork of shipping arms to a zone where they're already being used.

I'm sure there's a brazillion other reasons though.

Mercenaries! We don't need their scum!

Guys, your stressing because Blackwater bought an airplane that basically has 1950's technology. Have you forgotten that if they wree to go rogue with this plane the US has F-15's, F-16's, F/A-18's, F/A-22's, heck even the Apache helicopter could take this thing out with a Stinger. I fail to see the big deal seeing as how for about a fourth of what Blackwater spent on this, you could get a Mig 21, which is a supersonic jet fighter/interceptor from Russia.

WWII relic. The older Hezbolla kids can shoot these down.

"We're just going to roll in drop a little napalm and have us a Barbecue"

This...is not all that relevant. They bought a training plane, big whoop.

EXCEPT, this means they are planning on training their Soldiers of Fortune to fly fighter planes, which is a step above their current "military police" style of jobs.

You know, it will be considered "tinfoil hattery" to suggest it, but I get the feeling that the people who keep writing checks to Blackwater are honestly trying to privatize the military. The Shadowrun and Mutant Chronicles settings were not the sort of world governances I find attractive.

Maybe you'll find someone else to help you. Maybe Blackwater.

/that was a joke
//ha ha. fat chance

From wiki:

The Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano, also named ALX or A-29 is a turboprop aircraft designed for light attack, counter insurgency (COIN) and pilot training missions, incorporating modern avionics and weapons systems.

So, in other words, it's particularly useful in an insurgency.

Oh, and this is not a fighter. If this were to be in the US inventory, it would be designated an OA-something, or possibly just an O-something.

FTFA: The newspaper reported that Blackwater president Gary Jackson said the plane would be used for training.

Holy shiat. Hard 8 now has air support.

I'll translate this into anti-Bush language so everyone can understand.

The Toucano is a less able "fighter plane" than the Texas national Guard trainer planes that Chimpy Bushiatler was flying over 30 years ago while he avoided active duty.

Turboprop=jet

Just because it has a prop out the front doesn't mean that its not running on a jet engine. This ain't running on an 8 cylinder or something.

TheBigJerk:

Are you aware the US has been using mercs since before it was even technically a country?

Were I president, I would make "private security contractors" illegal, because they're farking mercenaries, and we all know what happened to Rome when they started farming their conflicts out to mercenaries.

Regisque: Turboprop=jet

Just because it has a prop out the front doesn't mean that its not running on a jet engine. This ain't running on an 8 cylinder or something.

Did you know the M1 Abrams is a jet too if you use that definition of what constitutes a "jet?"

You mean jet turbine? Yes I well do. Not only does the Abrams run on it so do many power plants. But saying that a plane has a prop means its not a jet isn't a valid definition.

yeah, this isn't really a fighter, more like a light attack /observation plane.

it can still lay the hurt, make no mistake.

What does Blackwater call the shooting deaths of 17 Iraqi civilians? A slow afternoon.

That's a well-ordered militia there, Lou.

studebaker hoch: WWII relic. The older Hezbolla kids can shoot these down.

Hardly a relic, the first one was built in 2000, capable of 370mph and 35,000 feet, with five hard points it can pack a wallop. No, it wouldn't be any good in an air to air scenario (unlikely in the desert) and like any other plane it can be shot down, but it looks like an excellent choice for their mission.

This plan has a whole lot less in common with a P-51 than something like an F-4. You pull open the engines and except for differences in routing and means of energy distribution they are basically going to be the same.

It's an airplane, and it was for sale. If you or I had the dosh, we could buy it.

The yearly cost of maintaining and arming a fighter aircraft for combat purposes is 1.5 to 20x the initial cost of the aircraft. Using it to ferry people around on a standard flight schedule, not so much.

Aircraft such as this one are highly sought after due to a readily available supply of spare parts and avionics.

/blackwater still sucks ass, however.

ah3133: No weapons for war? What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?

You do realize that Blackwater has been accused of things like mass murder and various other war crimes, correct?

They aren't soldiers. They're mercenaries headed by an admitted racist, Christian supremacist.

cubsfan07: Blackwater Security Mercenaries.


Let's cut the bullshiat, subby.

Amen. I had this argument with the wife yesterday.

When you're a jet, you're a jet all the way.

Rincewind53: Were I president, I would make "private security contractors" illegal, because they're farking mercenaries, and we all know what happened to Rome when they started farming their conflicts out to mercenaries.

The Dark Ages.

Simply because SOMEONE is going to ask.

Hosebeatings: TheBigJerk:

Are you aware the US has been using mercs since before it was even technically a country?

To what degree and where? I could be wrong, but it seems like things are a bit different now. Especially when even a case as egregious as this one is covered up. That's no "local folks who ain't Americans have horrible things done to 'em, but we don't care because they ain't Americans," story there.

Bucky Katt: Mercenaries! We don't need their scum!

Show some respect. These brave, overpaid men will someday run our country.

Regisque: Turboprop=jet

Just because it has a prop out the front doesn't mean that its not running on a jet engine. This ain't running on an 8 cylinder or something.

Strictly speaking, it's running on a turbine engine. A jet is a turbine engine that generates the majority of its thrust via its exhaust gases. Since a turboprop generates the majority of its thrust via a propeller, it is not considered a jet aircraft.

Good enough distinction for the FAA, good enough for you. :)

To correct myself, a jet is any engine that generates its thrust via exhaust gases. A turbojet (or turbofan, these days) is a turbine-powered jet engine. A rocket is an external combustion jet engine.

A turboprop still ain't no jet.

Come on now, folks. Everyone on the "let's bash Blackwater" bandwagon, admit that you know absolutely nothing about BW and what they do. You're still knee-jerking over the "innocent civilians gunned down" incident in Iraq. I am speaking from the position of someone who has served in and spent plenty of time in Iraq. Iraqis (and Afghans as well) have a bad habit of running TOWARDS the sounds of a firefight to see what is going on, whereas most other people in the world with half a brain run AWAY from a firefight -- and for good reason. The BW personnel who were involved in "the incident" did exactly what any active member of the forward-deployed military would have done, and that is shoot to kill Iraqis running towards you in a firefight. The fact that they're civilians acting more or less in a military capacity has a lot of panties in a lot of knots, but remember that they have NEVER lost a client or PP yet to this day.

/Braces for the whinge-fest

subby-Blackwater Security buys a fighter plane from Brazil. when told that Brazilian law prohibits the sale of arms to companies or for use in existing conflicts, Blackwater replies: "It's for....ummmm, what, uh, what was the question?"

Why does Blackwater reply? Shouldn't it be the Governmrnt of Brazil that replies? Who do you hold accountable?

Oh, yeah. Corporations bad, Government good. Business bad, regulation good. Uh-huh. Oh yeah. You go, subby. You tell us, Comrade!