Wow, what a one-sided article. They really had to reach for some of the Obama issues in order to show parity with Hillary. Cuba? Yeah, that's easily as relevant as participation in the Florida and Michigan primaries.

/independent, no dog left in this hunt, not by a damned mile

Same guy on McCain(p):

Top McCain Flip Flops

1. Taxes
McCain was one of two Republican senators to vote against the Bush tax cuts of 2001, saying that he coult not support a tax cut that went to rich Americans rather than middle class Americans. He now favors making the tax cuts permanent.

2. Religious Right
During the 2002 election campaign, McCain attacked Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as "agents of intolerance." He withdrew that remark in a 2006 interview with Meet the Press, saying that the Christian Right had a "major role to play in the Republican party."

3. Immigration
Last year, McCain sponsored a bill that would combine a temporary worker program and path to citizenship for many illegal immigrants with increased border security. But he now puts the emphasis on securing the borders first.

4. Roe vs Wade
In August 1999, McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he would "not support repeal of Roe vs Wade" because it would force women to undergo illegal operations. He has subsequently said that he was speaking about the need to change the "culture of America", and supports the repeal of Roe vs Wade.

5. Ethanol
In 2003, McCain said that ethanol "does nothing to reduce fuel consumption, nothing to increase our energy independence, nothing to improve air quality." Campaigning in Iowa in August 2006, he described ethanol as a "vital alternative energy source, not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse reduction effects." Yesterday, in Massachusetts, he reverted to his anti-ethanol position.

While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use.

He also said he'd show up to my kegger but after I told him it would be more of a D&D costume party, he never showed.
Jerk.

Washington Post article.
Rupert Murdoch paper.

Please, let some dimwit farktard at least post that "list of 35 reasons Obama is unelectable" in here. At least when he does that, it gets a little funny.

Once when I got a new apartment, Obama said he'd help me move if I was providing pizza and beer. Then he showed up but only stayed for like half an hour and didn't even eat the pizza. farkin flip flopper.

I'd call that 3 mid-level and 2 low-level issues for Obama, and 4 high-level and 1 mid-level issue for Clinton.

If that's all they got on Obama, I think we're good.

I heard that Bush was gonna get us out of Iraq back in 2005 but he didn't want bloggers to call him a "flip flopper". So he stayed the course.

I think Obama's worst is the Cuba one. He's obviously had to change his position for political reasons in Florida. Ending the embargo would bring about more change than keeping it in place has. For Christ's sake, it's been on how long? And just how much change has it induced? Not working. Compare that to the change Communist China has seen while we have robust trade with them. I guess we could ask Cuba for something to end it but it doesn't have to be full-on elections or whatever the Cuban community in Florida wants (maybe the Castros' heads on sticks). I'm glad Obama's kept the possibility of ending the embargo open, however, as well as the possibility of meeting with Raul. I mean, if Nixon can meet with f*cking Mao, we can meet with this jerk-off.

Clinton's? Iraq, NAFTA, FL-MI -- pick 'em. I guess Iraq.

unlikely: Washington Post article.
Rupert Murdoch paper.

Huh?

5. Decriminalization of Marijuana
While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the October 30, 2007 presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

Motherf*cker.

Jeremy Bates: dudemanbro: 5. Decriminalization of Marijuana
While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the October 30, 2007 presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

Motherf*cker.

Yes, that's right, druggie: Obama betrayed you. The obvious solution is to now cast your vote for McCain.

Because Obama thinks marijuana is an issue states should resolve?

/hahaha
//hahahahaha
///ha

dudemanbro: Motherf*cker.

What did you expect? Can you imagine what the law & order types would think of him if he supported decriminalization?

Just think how much more the article could have included if it was written today instead of three months ago.

Well by my own assessment, the number of Clinton's flip-flops is a bit higher than Obama's, but Obama's flip-fops are larger than Clinton's even though they are less in number because, after all, we are dealing with men's sizes vs. women's sizes.

1. Special Interests

How is this a flip flop? He said Clinton was pandering, and she was...He's always been pro-Union.

2. Public Financing

Uh, I thought he never said this, it was an invention by the media. While it would probably be a good idea, he doesn't have to do it and he can write the rules since he has far more funding.

3. The Cuba embargo

*rolls eyes* Because nothing in Cuba or the United States has changed since 2004

4. Illegal immigration

Isn't it a good thing that he wants to crack down on illegal immigration now? How is this bad?

5. Decriminalization of Marijuana

They forgot to put in "at the Federal level." It comes down to states rights.

The Hillary stuff is pretty much dead on, save for #2, which is a little bit funky from a flip flop perspective.....

Dude, all three of the slightly possible candidates ("slightly possible" specified to include Mrs. Clinton) are senators. Vote-trading is their job. If you're looking for untarnished records of issue stability, this is not your election.

spamdog: What did you expect? Can you imagine what the law & order types would think of him if he vocally supported decriminalization?

FTFY. I hope.

His stated positions on drug policy and space funding are the two biggest problems I have with Obama.

Occam's Chainsaw: His stated positions on drug policy and space funding are the two biggest problems I have with Obama.

Have you ever flown to Mars.....on weeeeeed?

spamdog: Have you ever flown to Mars.....on weeeeeed?

*grumbles* No, and it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon.

Yeah, I'm one of those bitter voters who clings to his bong and his moon tourism pamphlets.

Has anyone ever seen a Republican flip-flopping list? Hell, has anyone ever seen a Republican accused of flip-flopping in the press? I mean, with those words?

Just wondering.

Republicans don't seem like the flip-flop wearing type.

subset sum: This article is from FEBRUARY, 2008, folks!

What is this "arrr-tii-culll" of which you speak? We were discussing how ol' Jug Ears needs to realize that getting humanity off this rock is priority #1.

No Proof Connects Iraq to 9/11, Bush Says

Flip Flop.

/I have more, if needed.

Vote McClame 2008. I have no idea where I am and what I'm doing. Trust me.

Benjamin the Rogue: Has anyone ever seen a Republican flip-flopping list? Hell, has anyone ever seen a Republican accused of flip-flopping in the press? I mean, with those words?

Just wondering.

Republicans don't seem like the flip-flop wearing type.

Somebody upthread already linked an identical article for McCain, so I'm going to say Yes.

I find it a very clear example of what all politicians do.

Yes, whoever your favorite politician was, most likely did the same thing.

DeathByGeekSquad: Yes, whoever your favorite politician was, most likely did the same thing.

RON PAUL

DeathByGeekSquad: I find it a very clear example of what all politicians do.

Yes, whoever your favorite politician was, most likely did the same thing.

Admit to changing their position over time and not sticking to a failed plan or misinformed opinion?

Why yes, my favorite politicians do do that.

/I ain't got to many favorites
//Obama ain't perfect but he's light-years ahead of those other jokers
///GOBAMA

DeathByGeekSquad: ...favorite politician...

Favorite politician? Isn't that a bit like saying "best way to get shivved in the kidney" or "coolest venereal disease"?

Oh, snap. Two greenlights in one week.

Gotta love the apologists here. Just admit that your candidate changes his stance to be more popular. It has nothing to do with what he thinks is good and bad policy.

(e.g. No, nothing in Cuba has changed to make the embargo more justifiable or better policy)

KramericaWallet: (e.g. No, nothing in Cuba has changed to make the embargo more justifiable or better policy)

Nothing has changed in Cuba at all? You are ignorant, aren't you...

In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose."

Wha? Assuming that the question means "knowingly hire illegal immigrants", how can you oppose this?

Nothing that would make the embargo justifiable humanly or good policy for the US. I'm curious to hear why you think the opposite.

I meant humanely

spamdog:

RON PAUL

He was for publishing racist screeds before he was against it.

Lionel Mandrake

Same guy on McCain(p):

Top McCain Flip Flops

You know, the 2000 and before McCain I could probably vote for (if I was American and the other options weren't much good), now he looks to have potential to be at least as bad as Bush.

unlikely: Washington Post article.
Rupert Murdoch paper.

Washington Post is owned by the Washington Post Company, not News Corp. I think you may be confusing it with the New York Post, which is owned by News Corp.

I love how all of the Obama flip-flops took place over the course of years while Hillary has one that was within 20 days.

I'm an Obamaniac and I know that he flip-flopped on drugs. I don't care, because change won't happen if he's not elected. And you don't get elected by giving Fox News a clip of you saying "Yes, I want to decriminalize marijuana" because regardless of the logical defense you make, that soundbyte is all that will ever be played and his campaign would be over before it began.

Small steps. First get a progressive elected. Then we can start on progress.

^^^ not an apologist :)

Jim_Callahan: Benjamin the Rogue: Has anyone ever seen a Republican flip-flopping list? Hell, has anyone ever seen a Republican accused of flip-flopping in the press? I mean, with those words?

Just wondering.

Republicans don't seem like the flip-flop wearing type.

Somebody upthread already linked an identical article for McCain, so I'm going to say Yes.

Ah, forgot to go back to that little link hiding there.

But I was refering primarily to the big dumb networks that the general populace watches, like CNN, FOX, or MSNBC and crap.

It seems the "liberal" media has always been more willing to be on the defensive and the "conservative" media has always been more ready to point out their opponents faults, I guess.

DamnYankees: If that's all they got on Obama, I think we're good.

Pretty much sums up this election.

I can't imagine why a politician would change positions on a topic after millions of voters say they want it to.

Big whoop.

I thought this about the Kerry flip flop issues. There are two types of flip flops:

Pandering. Which a couple of Obama's and a massive amount of Clinton's are Pandering flip flops.

and

Having an open mind and adjusting your position to new information. Which is what most of the sane people in the world do every day.


As a voter you just have to decide which is which.

JaMorg: Big whoop.

I thought this about the Kerry flip flop issues. There are two types of flip flops:

Pandering. Which a couple of Obama's and a massive amount of Clinton's are Pandering flip flops.

and

Having an open mind and adjusting your position to new information. Which is what most of the sane people in the world do every day.

You missed the one where you change positions because you've got Alzheimer's and can't remember what your original position was.

/PANCAKES!!!

Occam's Chainsaw: His stated positions on drug policy and space funding are the two biggest problems I have with Obama.

Well, drug policy does bite, but at least I don't think his AG would be going after Cheech Marin as a stunt.

And Space Funding... well he may not support it, but when the congresspeople of Houston and Florida get their say, that'll probably change. I don't think Obama would sink a budget over a satellite.

Only in politics can changing your opinion based on receiving new facts be considered a bad thing. I hate the way critical thinking often gets called "flip-flopping" and I hate the way unwavering pig-headedness in the face of complete and total error is admired as "sticking to your guns".

Poor Obama just can't cut a break on fark...

The difference between the Obama flip-flops and the Clinton flip-flops is that Obama's changed what he's said about some issues while Clinton's gone and done a full 180 on things that she actually voted for (NCLB, Iraq) or was a prominent supporter of (NAFTA, disenfranchising MI and FL).

Ghastly: Only in politics can changing your opinion based on receiving new facts be considered a bad thing. I hate the way critical thinking often gets called "flip-flopping" and I hate the way unwavering pig-headedness in the face of complete and total error is admired as "sticking to your guns".

The way to change that is to come up with snappier terms supporting that worldview. Unfortunately, there's not much that's going to beat "flip flop".

I'm so tired of the term "flip-flop." It's pejorative and describes any change of position, whether obviously pandering or not. You see, folks, we want someone who's willing to examine the issues and possibly sometimes change their original opinions. Otherwise we get...George W. Bush. Second, these people are all senators. It's their job to make compromise and trade votes. That's how you play the game. And to sit on the sidelines and scream, "FLIPFLOPPERS!!!" is just stupid.

I can understand the use of the term at some points, but it's way overused now, IMO.