Of course this might confuse some historians, who remember McCain's previous mayoral run:

McCain/ Christ
Experience for Nazareth changing world

clgrin: Of course this might confuse some historians, who remember McCain's previous mayoral run:

McCain/ Christ
Experience Nazareth in a changing world

FTFM

"Memorial Day weekend barbecue at John McCain's ranch was a high-pressure affair for one of its most important guests"

No more presidents with a ranch.

Case closed.

Lots of bloviation on the same stupid barbecue story from three days ago. The only reason Crist is attached is because the source is the Miami Herald.

If we can't find news, we'll make it.

The Weenerser from the actual article suggested McCain/Clinton. Hahaha, how long would THAT last before the Foster Redux?

Florida is not going for Obama. It's been going for McCain by 8+ points recently, and its demographics are all in McCain's favor. If Obama wins Florida, it means he's winning such a blowout that he wouldn't need Florida anyway.

If McCain is choosing his VP for geographical reasons, he needs someone to consolidate the Upper Midwest. Probably Mitt Romney for his Michigan ties.

OMG, I got farked! The first* filter works even if you are fourth.

Captain Dan: If McCain is choosing his VP for geographical reasons, he needs someone to consolidate the Upper Midwest. Probably Mitt Romney for his Michigan ties.

Same reason he doesn't need Chucklebee: the racist voters were already planning on taking off the white hoods and resuming their alter ego, "Christian conservatives".

Occam's Chainsaw: Same reason he doesn't need Chucklebee: the racist voters were already planning on taking off the white hoods and resuming their alter ego, "Christian conservatives".

What's race got to do with any of this? "Values voters" aren't rejecting Obama because of his skin color.

It's been a while since the last gaffe by one of the presumptive nominees, hasn't it?
Do they think the campaign is over or something? Don't they know we need a steady diet of gaffes?

Captain Dan
What's race got to do with any of this? "Values voters" aren't rejecting Obama because of his skin color.

That's right! They're not voting for Obama because he's a secret Muslim!

Occam's Chainsaw: Same reason he doesn't need Chucklebee: the racist voters were already planning on taking off the white hoods and resuming their alter ego, "Christian conservatives".

Remember, when 93% of African Americans vote for Obama in North Carolina and he caries the state it has nothing to do with race because I'm sure all 93% of those African Americans were completely color blind on race and wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's African American.

Wait, let me guess... "B-But Iowa...!" North Carolina is not Iowa, nobody is talking about Iowa, or any other state that you're going to bring up to try and distract from why Obama won North Carolina.

Captain Dan: What's race got to do with any of this? "Values voters" aren't rejecting Obama because of his skin color.

I apologize if my delivery was obtuse. A number of the people who would vote against Obama based upon skin color obfuscate their blatant racism by claiming that they will vote against Obama due to values-based policy issues. They paint themselves as values voters when their real concern is keeping those damn darkies out of the White House.

randomjsa: Remember, when 93% of African Americans vote for Obama in North Carolina and he caries the state it has nothing to do with race because I'm sure all 93% of those African Americans were completely color blind on race and wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's African American.

Now is usually when someone posts "It's not racist to vote for someone because of their skin color. It's only racist to vote against someone because of skin color."

AKA the Ku Klux Klan defense: "We're not racist against blacks! We'd just rather support fellow whites."

FetusAGoGo: Captain Dan
What's race got to do with any of this? "Values voters" aren't rejecting Obama because of his skin color.

That's right! They're not voting for Obama because he's a secret Muslim!

Nah, it's because he's the Anti-Christ!

Occam's Chainsaw: I apologize if my delivery was obtuse. A number of the people who would vote against Obama based upon skin color obfuscate their blatant racism by claiming that they will vote against Obama due to values-based policy issues. They paint themselves as values voters when their real concern is keeping those damn darkies out of the White House.

I understand your point, I just don't think that race is as motivating a factor as you make it to be.

If we saw a match-up between a conservative black Republican and a liberal white Democrat (the skin-colored reverse of 2008), no amount of racism would overcome the ideological differences. Values voters would vote for the black guy.

randomjsa: Remember, when 93% of African Americans vote for Obama in North Carolina and he caries the state it has nothing to do with race because I'm sure all 93% of those African Americans were completely color blind on race and wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's African American.

Wait, let me guess... "B-But Iowa...!" North Carolina is not Iowa, nobody is talking about Iowa, or any other state that you're going to bring up to try and distract from why Obama won North Carolina.

It's slow tonight, so I'll play your game, troll.

What percentage of black people who voted for Barack Obama in North Carolina did so based upon his race? Citations as well, or don't bother replying.

Surely you're not implying that:

Darkies are so simple that they'll do as they're told by their leadership and auto-vote jigaboo.
-OR-
Darkies secretly wish to gain positions of power to the exclusion of whites in some sort of sinister race-wide plot.

FTFA "...the Memorial Day weekend barbecue at John McCain's ranch was a high-pressure affair..."

Exactly how many head of cattle does McCain keep on his "ranch"?
None?
Then it's a farm.

Wait... what crops are currently growing on McCain's "farm"?
None?
Then it's either a golf course or a cemetery.

How many rounds has McCain played on his "golf course"?
None?
Oh. My condolences.

Captain Dan2008-05-25 04:20:10 AM
Now is usually when someone posts "It's not racist to vote for someone because of their skin color. It's only racist to vote against someone because of skin color."

AKA the Ku Klux Klan defense: "We're not racist against blacks! We'd just rather support fellow whites."

So you think that simply being black and voting for a black candidate is morally equivalent to being in the Ku Klux Klan and voting for a white candidate?

Here's a tip: No one accuses the KKK of being racist because they support white candidate. That's the sort of net that would include the vast majority of Americans. They accuse the KKK of being racist for being the goddamned KKK.

But yeah. "Oh no, the black democrat won't vote for a white republican! Obviously, it's because he's a racist!"

Captain Dan: I understand your point, I just don't think that race is as motivating a factor as you make it to be.

If we saw a match-up between a conservative black Republican and a liberal white Democrat (the skin-colored reverse of 2008), no amount of racism would overcome the ideological differences. Values voters would vote for the black guy.

I disagree. What percentage of Democratic voters in West Virginia admitted that race was an important factor in their candidate selection? (22%) Of those who said that race was an important factor in their candidate selection, which candidate did they overwhelmingly vote for? (Hillary Clinton) Of those who said that race was an important factor, of which race were they predominantly composed? (Whites) Now, how many people do you think would never admit to voting based upon race to someone taking an exit poll, but voted for Hillary based upon race?

Kentucky breaks down similarly. Racism is alive and well in the United States.

Actually the more damning part of the KKK argument is the implication that every single person who is not of a northern / eastern European background is a racist.
\Woohoo! Paint rollers!

Occam's Chainsaw: Racism is alive and well in the United States.

The Hillary-Obama comparison is meaningless, because they both have essentially the same positions.

Give me a match-up between a black Conservative and a white Liberal, and then we'll see if conservative white racists will willingly go for the white guy.

Ideology will trump racism.

schrodinger: So you think that simply being black and voting for a black candidate is morally equivalent to being in the Ku Klux Klan and voting for a white candidate?

Obviously not. I'm comparing the rhetoric used by both sides.

Captain Dan: The Hillary-Obama comparison is meaningless, because they both have essentially the same positions.

Give me a match-up between a black Conservative and a white Liberal, and then we'll see if conservative white racists will willingly go for the white guy.

Ideology will trump racism.

I don't know if I can find one of those, but in November I should be able to provide you with numbers showing white Democrats (who are ostensibly "liberal") voting for a white conservative over a black liberal.

Think of the Kentucky and West Virginia Democratic primaries as a sneak preview.

Isn't Charlie Crist a gay guy? Fine in Florida, I guess, but is America really ready for a gay vice president?

Occam's Chainsaw: I don't know if I can find one of those

The most recent example I can think of was the 2006 Senatorial race in Maryland. Michael Steele (conservative black) vs. Ben Cardin (liberal white). Exit polls

- 6% of Republicans voted for the liberal.

- 12% of Democrats voted for the conservative.

That's normal crossover range.

In November I should be able to provide you with numbers showing white Democrats (who are ostensibly "liberal") voting for a white conservative over a black liberal.

It might look that way now, but polls taken at this time of year aren't indicative of how November ends up. Voters always end up drifting back to their party.

Captain Dan: It might look that way now, but polls taken at this time of year aren't indicative of how November ends up. Voters always end up drifting back to their party.

Here's hoping. Western NC is Lefty McLiberal's House of Democrats, but I still hear the pervasive meme, "[Insert Group Here] won't vote for Obama because he's black," always couched in careful terms to exclude the speaker.

corvidaerex: Isn't Charlie Crist a gay guy? Fine in Florida, I guess, but is America really ready for a gay vice president?

Yeah. Its atheists they are not ready for.

Holy shiat you guys are bored

moothemagiccow: Holy shiat you guys are bored

Yeah, RLSM is categorically shiatting on the high-volume threads. It's sad when randomjsa's shiat-and-run tactics are a refreshing change of pace.

Captain Dan: Occam's Chainsaw: Same reason he doesn't need Chucklebee: the racist voters were already planning on taking off the white hoods and resuming their alter ego, "Christian conservatives".

What's race got to do with any of this? "Values voters" aren't rejecting Obama because of his skin color.

Yes. Yes they are.

Personally, I hope he picks Huckabee.

/Methuselah/Jesus '08!!

randomjsa: Remember, when 93% of African Americans vote for Obama in North Carolina and he caries the state it has nothing to do with race because I'm sure all 93% of those African Americans were completely color blind on race and wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's African American.

Wait, let me guess... "B-But Iowa...!" North Carolina is not Iowa, nobody is talking about Iowa, or any other state that you're going to bring up to try and distract from why Obama won North Carolina.

Here's the problem with your little temper tantrum - Hillary had the African American vote at the start of the primary season. Black folks love Bill Clinton and liked the work Hillary does for NY.

Obama won them over.

As president of the Senate, Crist would make that grand old dome Fabulous!

Occam's Chainsaw: shiat-and-run

I'm sure my current state of sleep deprivation had something to do with it, but that phrase made me giggle uncontrollably.

corvidaerex: Isn't Charlie Crist a gay guy? Fine in Florida, I guess, but is America really ready for a gay vice president?

We already had a gay president.

It depends on who gets the democratic nomination. Obama is probably classy enough not to out Crist but Hillary would in a heartbeat.

Remember. If a white guy votes AGAINST Obama because he's black, or a black guy votes FOR Obama because he's black, either one was only half-right.

charlie crist: tan & fabulous!

Florida? Sorry, but you're too far red to be trifled with. Obama will be spending his time trying in Ohio, Virginia, Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico... even Nevada, Alaska, North Carolina, and North Dakota are more probable targets than Florida this cycle. Possibly even Texas. Thanks for playing, though. Now that you're a solid GOP state, expect the GOP to shiat on you, too. Oh, wait, Jeb did that for a decade!

He can have Florida.

Obama needs to concentrate on securing victories in Pa., Ohio, Wisc. and Mich. If Obama wins at least 3 of those states, he'll likely win the GE. Also, I suspect Obama might be able to poach a southern state or two from McCain. Virginia is looking good. What about a state that has a lot of blacks as well as a lot of young educated people? Say maybe North Carolina?

We will never get the right person in office. Strategery using Crist to win Florida is just this tactic. I am so sick of politicians and politics. Evil evil turds

blondiegrrl007: He can have Florida.

Obama needs to concentrate on securing victories in Pa., Ohio, Wisc. and Mich. If Obama wins at least 3 of those states, he'll likely win the GE. Also, I suspect Obama might be able to poach a southern state or two from McCain. Virginia is looking good. What about a state that has a lot of blacks as well as a lot of young educated people? Say maybe North Carolina?

Spoken like a true liberal. Racism's okay (if it goes your way), and "young educated people" and "blacks" are entirely different categories in your world.