Wow. That's the most Fair and Balanced article I've ever read.

Well he's wrong, Bush and Co. did almost no time in the military but still can only view the world through the prism of the military

His claim to fame is crashing his plane and getting caught,then signing anti American statements declaring his own soldier brothers were war criminals. Others would have rather died than make those statements. Some did. John appeased them and they spared his life. I can't really blame him for it other than to remind everyone that when he says he will stand resolute even when the chips are down that his record is one of flip flopping, pandering to the same people he used to spurn, kissing butt to the man who disgraced his wife and adopted child, and left his wife after an affair with a younger woman when she was disfigured in an accident. Then married a woman the age of his daughter. A rich socialite. Definitely a trophy worthy of a Republican up and comer.

hillbillypharmacist: His claim to fame is crashing his plane and getting caught,then signing anti American statements declaring his own soldier brothers were war criminals.


Torture makes you do some strange things.

Then married a woman the age of his daughter. A rich socialite. Definitely a trophy worthy of a Republican up and comer.

Kind of like Kerry then? Why aren't the Dems letting him run for them?

Neither is worth a sh*t.

Now, if we sit quietly behind this tree over here we can watch the Republican fanboys who were more than willing to throw McCain under a bus when Bush Co told them to suddenly rise up to defend their new savior.

There are much much easier ways to show that Mccain is unfit to lead than this.

I understand Harkin's point. People who spend too much of their lives invested in a particular institution - no matter what it is - are going to have a myopic view.

It was still a dumb thing to say when there is so much low hanging fruit overripe for the plucking.

mccain is a coward and a traitor.

hillbillypharmacist: then signing anti American statements declaring his own soldier brothers were war criminals. Others would have rather died than make those statements. Some did. John appeased them and they spared his life.

This was after he refused early release and was tortured for 4 days straight. I think the quote is "I had learned what we all learned over there. Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."

Swiftboating is fun though eh?

FlashHarry: mccain is a coward and a traitor.

people say obama's a muslim, so i thought i'd try throwing shiat out there without evidence.

quickdraw: People who spend too much of their lives invested in a particular institution - no matter what it is - are going to have a myopic view.

Like people who have spent 34 years in Congress?

I don't think America needs a guy whose going to give the military anything they ask for while in office. Spending over half the national budget on the military is what's causing our problems.

Dancin_In_Anson: Swiftboating is fun though eh?

Great fun! I stole that one from Hobodeluxe.

Dancin_In_Anson: Like people who have spent 34 years in Congress?

Congresscritters, out of touch? How can you say such a thing?

The amount of mental masturbation in this thread is already epic. This is going to be fun.

EvilEgg: Congresscritters, out of touch? How can you say such a thing?

Just a hunch.

I really don't like Tom Harkin. Now that I read his wiki I really dislike his wife too.

He is soooo out of touch, I don't know why Iowans keep electing him.

Tom Harkin (D-umbass)

Regrettably, I can't argue with that.

discount sushi: I really don't like Tom Harkin. Now that I read his wiki I really dislike his wife too.

He is soooo out of touch, I don't know why Iowans keep electing him.

Two words: Corn subsidies.

discount sushi: I really don't like Tom Harkin. Now that I read his wiki I really dislike his wife too.

He is soooo out of touch, I don't know why Iowans keep electing him.

out of touch how? he's very in-touch with liberal eastern iowa. he's pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti-war and pro-stem cell research. you can't get much more in touch than that.

I would not tout my military service if I barely graduated as an officer, had an Admiral as a dad, and flew a handful of combat missions before being shot down. The fact that he was a POW is the only relevant fact here. If he were injured and ended his military career without being a POW, it would be a pathetic example of military service.

So shutup about your military service as if it was something great. We respect your sacrifice and your POW stuff is the real story of survival, sacrifice and endurance, but don't try to leverage vapors.

Dancin_In_Anson: Like people who have spent 34 years in Congress?

I was thinking more in terms of an institution that people were born into and that their whole family is part of. That goes for everything from a church to a family business to the military.

There are political families that are tied to a particular party - like the Kennedys, Clinton's and Bush's. I think the 2nd and 3rd generations of those folks oughta give it a rest too.

PC LOAD LETTER: I would not tout my military service if I barely graduated as an officer, had an Admiral as a dad, and flew a handful of combat missions before being shot down.

Eh?

FlashHarry: out of touch how? he's very in-touch with liberal eastern iowa. he's pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti-war and pro-stem cell research. you can't get much more in touch than that.

Liberal eastern Iowa? Iowa City maybe. I wouldn't call Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Dubuque, or the Quad Cities liberal. Pro gun control doesn't go over so well in Iowa.

He only gets re-elected because he sits on some of the most important subcommittees. That and no one would dare run against him.

discount sushi: FlashHarry: out of touch how? he's very in-touch with liberal eastern iowa. he's pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti-war and pro-stem cell research. you can't get much more in touch than that.

Liberal eastern Iowa? Iowa City maybe. I wouldn't call Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Dubuque, or the Quad Cities liberal. Pro gun control doesn't go over so well in Iowa.

He only gets re-elected because he sits on some of the most important subcommittees. That and no one would dare run against him.

i lived in eastern iowa for 15 years. it is far more liberal than the western side of the state. iowa is a purple state that's trending blue. it will go for obama in november, i guarantee it.

Dancin_In_Anson: PC LOAD LETTER: I would not tout my military service if I barely graduated as an officer, had an Admiral as a dad, and flew a handful of combat missions before being shot down.

Eh?

Just quoting George McGovern

Let me tell you what I would say to John McCain: neither of us is an expert on national defense. It's true that you went to one of the service academies but you were in the bottom of the class. It's true that you were a pilot in Vietnam, that you were shot down and spent most of the war in prison and we all sympathize with that and honor you for your courage. But you and I both had these battle experiences, you as a Navy fighter plane, I as an army bomber. I am not going to criticize your war record and your knowledge of national security but I don't want you criticizing mine either.

If I'd be allowed just one little dig at Senator McCain, since he gave me. I would say, 'John, you were shot down early in the war and spent most of the time in prison. I flew 35 combat missions with a 10-man crew and brought them home safely every time.'

FlashHarry: i lived in eastern iowa for 15 years. it is far more liberal than the western side of the state. iowa is a purple state that's trending blue. it will go for obama in november, i guarantee it.

Eastern IA is more liberal. It's not quite as liberal as Harkin though. He does his fair share of caving to lobbyists and pushing the failed farm subsidies. Mostly I'd like to see someone new, which goes for Grassley's position too. He also sits on quite a few powerful subcommittees.

I wasn't too pleased to find his wife was a lobbyist in DC, then director of Conoco Phillips, and has been on the Iowa Board of Regents. I can thank her in part for my tuition doubling between my freshman year and graduation.

I grew up in Cedar Rapids and went to college in Ames and Iowa City, so I've seen my share of the state.

PC LOAD LETTER: Just quoting George McGovern

Yeah, he did have 35 missions to McCain's paltry 23.

Dancin_In_Anson: PC LOAD LETTER: Just quoting George McGovern

Yeah, he did have 35 missions to McCain's paltry 23.

McGovern was a Bomber pilot, and bomber pilots got out of the service after 35 missions because less than 10% of them lived through 35 missions.

McCain also lost 5 aircraft, only one to enemy fire

Harkin is also the guy IIRC who said that the South Vietnamese were well off after their losing the war. Nevermind the hundreds of thousands of refugees and deaths that followed.

Dancin_In_Anson: Swiftboating is fun though eh?

only in 2004, now it's despicable right?

I'll just say it: McCain was a crappy pilot who got away with a poor career because his father was an admiral.

Even Kerry had a better military career.

BilltheThrill:
McGovern was a Bomber pilot, and bomber pilots got out of the service after 35 missions because less than 10% of them lived through 35 missions.

Unless, of course, they had Colonel Cathcart as their commander.

I understand what he was trying to say, and it was stupid. Military experience does not preclude you from being a kickass president. Ike was a great president, and he rocked the military. He warned of the dangers of the military industrial complex.

Just because your family has military experience doesn't mean you're disqualified from being president. Being part of the Keating 5 however, that should probably disqualify a person, or running on your foreign policy experience and consistently getting basic facts wrong. Even after being corrected. Running on being GWB II, that should definitely disqualify you from being president.

I have lived all throughout Iowa in my life, and the urban parts of Eastern Iowa are full of normal people. In fact, they two eastern districts elected pretty liberal Democrats last time around. Western Iowa (or as I like to call it, East Nebraska) is full of idiot goobers who elect Steve King over and over.

However, Harking and Grassley need to go. I am 27 years old, and I cannot remember a time when these two lobbyist wet-dreams were not in the Senate. Seriously, they are poster boys for why we need term limits. And Harkin is running again this year. He could practically hand his seat over to Tom Vilsack for the good of the party, but he has more farmers to pay off.

hillbillypharmacist: His claim to fame is crashing his plane and getting caught,then signing anti American statements declaring his own soldier brothers were war criminals. Others would have rather died than make those statements. Some did. John appeased them and they spared his life. I can't really blame him for it other than to remind everyone that when he says he will stand resolute even when the chips are down that his record is one of flip flopping, pandering to the same people he used to spurn, kissing butt to the man who disgraced his wife and adopted child, and left his wife after an affair with a younger woman when she was disfigured in an accident. Then married a woman the age of his daughter. A rich socialite. Definitely a trophy worthy of a Republican up and comer.

I coulda swore you were talking about John Kerry for most of that incoherant rant

this makes Lieutenant Dan mildly irritated.

GurneyHalleck: I don't think America needs a guy whose going to give the military anything they ask for while in office. Spending over half the national budget on the military is what's causing our problems.

You sleep pretty safe though don't ya skid mark?

On McCain helping Bush in 2004, this from Joe Conason

"Watching her husband embrace the president in the new commercial must be distressing to Cindy McCain whose former dependence to prescription drugs was highlighted in an anonymous campaign leaflets the night before the South Carolina primary in 2000. (Karl Rove, anyone?) Before anyone knew that Rush Limbaugh would make addiction fashionable on the far right.

According to Newsweek's inside account of the 2000 campaign, she began sobbing loudly while watching the returns that sank McCain's campaign. Trying to soothe her, her husband said, 'Think of how the Bushes felt two weeks ago in New Hampshire,' where Bush had unexpectedly lost the primary. Between her sobs, she replied, 'We never called his wife a weirdo.'

The assault on McCain's family didn't spare Bridget, the litte girl they'd adopted from a Mother Theresa orphanage in Bangladesh. In the mouths of anonymous quote 'push pollers,' who called Republican voters across South Carolina to smear the maverick reformer, Bridget was transformed into an illegitimate black baby, a variation on Bill Clinton's mythical black son. Christian conservatives eagerly spread baseless rumors that McCain had consorted with prostitutes, another old Clinton-bashing smear, and that he was also homosexual. (Ann Coulter, anyone?)

Sorry, folks. These hypocrites need to go. You don't take that sortof smear from someone and turn around to kiss their ass. McCain lost all credibility when he didn't stand up to Bush and say WHAT YOU DID TO ME AND MY FAMILY WAS WRONG! Instead he bent over and handed Bush the KY. His history as a POW doesn't erase that.

Trollomite: GurneyHalleck: I don't think America needs a guy whose going to give the military anything they ask for while in office. Spending over half the national budget on the military is what's causing our problems.

You sleep pretty safe though don't ya skid mark?

he's right. half the pentagon's budget is pure contractor boondoggle. we can be safe and spend less on defense. it really is possible.

FlashHarry: FlashHarry: mccain is a coward and a traitor.

people say obama's a muslim, so i thought i'd try throwing shiat out there without evidence.

They do that as a joke. A joke that you're apparently not getting.

/Bobby Jindal is a Hindu

PC LOAD LETTER: McCain also lost 5 aircraft, only one to enemy fire

Obama has lost 0, guess that makes him better.

Well, his experience as a POW surely doesn't help him in the context of making rational decisions. That might be important, presidentially.

FlashHarry: he's right. half the pentagon's budget is pure contractor boondoggle. we can be safe and spend less on defense. it really is possible.

You aren't getting it. If you want to stay safe, you need to keep your cakehole shut about any 'waste' in our government.

Is it a variation on the ITG meme to say that a guy is a pussy traitor for breaking after several days of being tortured to near death?

Headso: only in 2004, now it's despicable right?

Kerry and McCain are two different animals. While Kerry was spending Christmas 1968 in Cambodia, McCain was in the Hanoi Hilton.

BilltheThrill: McGovern was a Bomber pilot, and bomber pilots got out of the service after 35 missions because less than 10% of them lived through 35 missions.

I wonder what McGovern thinks of the 90% that got shot down.

hillbillypharmacist: His claim to fame is crashing his plane and getting caught,then signing anti American statements declaring his own soldier brothers were war criminals. Others would have rather died than make those statements. Some did. John appeased them and they spared his life. I can't really blame him for it other than to remind everyone that when he says he will stand resolute even when the chips are down that his record is one of flip flopping, pandering to the same people he used to spurn, kissing butt to the man who disgraced his wife and adopted child, and left his wife after an affair with a younger woman when she was disfigured in an accident. Then married a woman the age of his daughter. A rich socialite. Definitely a trophy worthy of a Republican up and comer.

In all fairness, I think caving to torture is hardly comparable to the political pandering and flip-flopping he's been doing in anticipation of this election. Frankly, it undercuts the legitimacy of your later points, though I think bringing his wife into it isn't necissarily fair either.

On an unrelated note, I never would have been able to identify the man in the picture behind him was a young McCain. The skin cancer operation really changed his face.

Joe_diGriz: BilltheThrill:
McGovern was a Bomber pilot, and bomber pilots got out of the service after 35 missions because less than 10% of them lived through 35 missions.

Unless, of course, they had Colonel Cathcart as their commander.

What the hell kind of a name is Cathcart?

/obligatory...

Buggleton: In all fairness, I think caving to torture is hardly comparable to the political pandering and flip-flopping he's been doing in anticipation of this election.

(Do be aware that that little rant I stole from a previous thread, and it's a fun bit of swiftboating. It's not a criticism I actually believe)

GurneyHalleck: I don't think America needs a guy whose going to give the military anything they ask for while in office. Spending over half the national budget on the military is what's causing our problems.

While I respect your hyperbole, you might want to re-examine what we spend money on. Social Security is more than the DOD budget. SS, Medicare and Medicaid is about 42% of the budget.

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