Way to go George. You are a uniter after all.

China and Russia could barely stand being in the same room a few years ago and now they're united against you... you farking moron.

Who runs the foreign policy department?... Beavis?

I miss the USSR. Back when they were around, pissing off the rest of the world seemed noble and heroic.

staplermofo: I miss the USSR. Back when they were around, pissing off the rest of the world seemed noble and heroic.

The hockey was better too...

OlafTheBent: China and Russia could barely stand being in the same room a few years ago and now they're united against you... you farking moron.

It was bound to happen, regardless of who was President at the time. Russia has military technology and oil, China has lots of money and is gobbling up what Russia is putting on the table. Both hated SDI and hate it's current incarnation because they lack the requisite funds and Geo-political influence to install one themselves.

slobarnuts: Both hated SDI and hate it's current incarnation because they lack the requisite funds and Geo-political influence to install one themselves.

If only Taiwan were more like Israel.
Then we'd have good hockey again. Just like the old times.

Keep it in perspective:

This is the same as roaches and mice opposing your installation of one of those ultrasonic pest repellent gadgets.

Since ultrasonic pest repellent gadgets don't actually work, the roaches and mice are only blustering because they can do so with impunity, and because it makes the dumbass human confident in their useless purchase.

SDI is a useless pipe dream waste of money designed to deal with a problem that never existed and never will. Nuclear war is not profitable for anyone, but pretending that it's a real threat is VERY profitable for American defense contractors.

slobarnuts: It was bound to happen, regardless of who was President at the time. Russia has military technology and oil, China has lots of money and is gobbling up what Russia is putting on the table. Both hated SDI and hate it's current incarnation because they lack the requisite funds and Geo-political influence to install one themselves.

I agree, but I seem to remember them disliking each other due to a fundamental difference in their views on Communism.

/Plus, the Chinese have always sucked at hockey.

Defence?

Here's an idea: Lets start and arms race in space! That would be SO cool!

The Chinese and the ruskies know very well the missile defense pork project is just a way to funnel American tax money into the pockets of the defense contractors. This is all showboating and doesn't matter.

slobarnuts

OlafTheBent: China and Russia could barely stand being in the same room a few years ago and now they're united against you... you farking moron.

It was bound to happen, regardless of who was President at the time. Russia has military technology and oil, China has lots of money and is gobbling up what Russia is putting on the table. Both hated SDI and hate it's current incarnation because they lack the requisite funds and Geo-political influence to install one themselves.

Surely the point is a reliable SDI system (especially when added to some historical arms reduction treaties) could open up the possibility of a first strike being successful. Given Americas proven track record of pre-emptive attacks on flimsy grounds, you can see such a situation would not be viewed positively by various governments.

I'm not sure which videogame's prediction of World War III is going to happen first.

Frontlines: Fuel of War had pegged the war for oil against Russia and China.

But this missile shield dust-up plays into the hands of the upcoming Tom Clancy's Endwar.

Maybe both will happen and they'll make an awesome new game that combines both.

GurneyHalleck: SDI is a useless pipe dream waste of money designed to deal with a problem that never existed and never will. Nuclear war is not profitable for anyone, but pretending that it's a real threat is VERY profitable for American defense contractors.

You miss the point SDI in and of its self is not really useful, but you will eventfully see SDI technology in Autonomous Kill Vehicles (AKV). We know that SDI is a dog and will probably never work in its current incarnation, but AKVs are the coming future. We all ready have the drone technology pretty well in hand, now all we need to do is get the targeting and intercept technology up to snuff and you have a vehicle that is able to launch and destroy incoming fighters, bombers, and missiles. Not to mention able to deliver bombs or missiles of it's own on target with out any human intervention.

Dog Man: Maybe both will happen and they'll make an awesome new game that combines both.

will anyone be left to play it?

Giblet: This is the same as roaches and mice opposing your installation of one of those ultrasonic pest repellent gadgets.

Except those roaches have teamed up with the rats and they're both as armed as we are.

Yes, but what do we do when SDI becomes self-aware?

And we should care because why...? Because this is the United States of Russ-chine-ica?

Everyone is missing the point that MAD is basically poker: nobody is willing to call the other guys' bluffs. SDI just has to be plausible enough to make everyone else (especially the North Koreans & Iranians) think "uh, well, maybe I shouldn't launch..."

Even if the "missile shield" did actually work, this is like whining that locking your door after leaving your home makes the neighborhood more distrustful.

this reminds me of the Cuban cigar crisis. When some far away country was trying to build cigar factories in our back yard. WTF were they thinking?

Dog Man
Frontlines: Fuel of War had pegged the war for oil against Russia and China.

That's fine as long as I get a tiny RC helicopter that fires rockets.

While strategic missile defense is probably a waste of time, I think that the advances made in tactical and theater-wide missile defences are well worth the cost and time spent. Protecting that battle group or armored spearhead from a hoard of cruise missiles and long range SSMs and ASMs is worth the investment.

FrancoFile: Everyone is missing the point that MAD is basically poker: nobody is willing to call the other guys' bluffs. SDI just has to be plausible enough to make everyone else (especially the North Koreans & Iranians) think "uh, well, maybe I shouldn't launch..."

Heh, you should play World in Conflict. The premise, at least early on, is to protect the research site for SDI after a Russian invasion of the mainland US. If they get there, they'll realize its a failure and launch nukes. Awesome game, with an expansion coming soon I think.

mediaho: Giblet: This is the same as roaches and mice opposing your installation of one of those ultrasonic pest repellent gadgets.

Except those roaches have teamed up with the rats and they're both as armed as we are.

Not really... Actually, not even close if you look at the quality of what they all have in comparison with what we have.

It's best to play nice anyway. Instead of antagonizing them, maybe we should be selling them Fords and Chevys below cost. That'll destroy their economies in no time. Just look at Kentucky...

we can has pics of hot russian milfs? hot russian milfs, we can has pics of them?

Giblet: Not really... Actually, not even close if you look at the quality of what they all have in comparison with what we have.

You don't need expensive quality weaponry to fark shiat up good (see: Iraq). If they teamed up and decided to take us on, we would be farked. Now the economic reality of that situation is very unlikely at the moment, but the more we piss off our neighbors and the weaker we look in Iraq (see: USSR v. Afghanistan), the less tempting our relatively meager economic carrots look.

Galen_Rasputin:

You can take 'targeting technology' off that list.

staplermofo: I miss the USSR. Back when they were around, pissing off the rest of the world seemed noble and heroic.

Good point. When most of the world was ruled by maniacs america looked pretty good. As governmance around the world improves, America no longer stands out.

GurneyHalleck: SDI is a useless pipe dream waste of money designed to deal with a problem that never existed and never will. Nuclear war is not profitable for anyone, but pretending that it's a real threat is VERY profitable for American defense contractors.

But I suspect that the next administration will spend a lot less on it than this one.

Do not approve

ilambiquated: GurneyHalleck: SDI is a useless pipe dream waste of money designed to deal with a problem that never existed and never will. Nuclear war is not profitable for anyone, but pretending that it's a real threat is VERY profitable for American defense contractors.

But I suspect that the next administration will spend a lot less on it than this one.

Before or after the democrats screw up the primary? If your looking for "straight talk" express, see more of the military industrial complex wringing their hands in anticipation of a expanded campaign in Asia.

/goes back to playing Risk.

mediaho: If they teamed up and decided to take us on, we would be farked.

We'd be farked just because of China's million-strong standing army.

US accuracy scores indicate that we are such bad shots, we don't have enough ammo to hit them all, even if they stand close/still and wear red day-glo target suits.

If it ever comes to that, this is what tactical nukes will be used for. We have the most and the best, even if Russia has the biggest and dirtiest.

Their heavy conventional weaponry is not much of a threat and they really don't have good ways to move that stuff around before we spot it from space and figure out the best way to break it.

Just as certain American leaders apparently do, China and Russia are still living in the Napoleonic era with regard to effective warfare, which is best fought guerrilla style. F-22 Raptors are awesome! Now, try and use it to nail some dick with an attitude in an apartment building full of other people you must protect... It doesn't work. Try to use a destroyer to get him. A tank, even.

A sniper with all the latest toys can take that bad guy out pretty effectively. Sniper/spotter teams will always be our best weapons ie, they always have the highest kill ratios. We should focus technology on improving their spotting, targeting, and concealment capabilities while encouraging citizens to excel at the basic skills required of such teams.

We also need to focus on the small-scale RC hunter/killer systems of all kinds (land, air, or water deployed). They're just more cost-effective, near or long term, than chronically temperamental meat soldiers. Besides, there are two generations of potential operators, currently hovering over a gamepad already, who will be more than happy to do it for a modest pay check.

Giblet
A sniper with all the latest toys can take that bad guy out pretty effectively. Sniper/spotter teams will always be our best weapons ie, they always have the highest kill ratios.

Highest kill ratio hardly equals "best weapon" in a general sense. A sniper who has never missed a shot in his life is still pretty SOL if he's up against a main battle tank. Snipers sure as hell ain't the best weapons against heavy armor.

The thing with SDI not working now, is analogous to people saying, 20 years ago, it's impossible to fit 16 gigs on a thumb-sized drive.

As proven time and time again in our modern day lives, tech does catch up with demand.

SDI will work eventually.

China is not going to blow up the United States. No way. Not when they're going to repossess the United States.

/Oh, I'm sure Chimpy owes a lot of money to them.
//They may not repo the country, but they will collect something.

Giblet: mediaho: If they teamed up and decided to take us on, we would be farked.

We'd be farked just because of China's million-strong standing army.

US accuracy scores indicate that we are such bad shots, we don't have enough ammo to hit them all, even if they stand close/still and wear red day-glo target suits.

If it ever comes to that, this is what tactical nukes will be used for. We have the most and the best, even if Russia has the biggest and dirtiest.

Their heavy conventional weaponry is not much of a threat and they really don't have good ways to move that stuff around before we spot it from space and figure out the best way to break it.

Just as certain American leaders apparently do, China and Russia are still living in the Napoleonic era with regard to effective warfare, which is best fought guerrilla style. F-22 Raptors are awesome! Now, try and use it to nail some dick with an attitude in an apartment building full of other people you must protect... It doesn't work. Try to use a destroyer to get him. A tank, even.

A sniper with all the latest toys can take that bad guy out pretty effectively. Sniper/spotter teams will always be our best weapons ie, they always have the highest kill ratios. We should focus technology on improving their spotting, targeting, and concealment capabilities while encouraging citizens to excel at the basic skills required of such teams.

We also need to focus on the small-scale RC hunter/killer systems of all kinds (land, air, or water deployed). They're just more cost-effective, near or long term, than chronically temperamental meat soldiers. Besides, there are two generations of potential operators, currently hovering over a gamepad already, who will be more than happy to do it for a modest pay check.

PAGING ENDER WIGGIN! PAGING ENDER WIGGIN! PAGING ENDER WIGGIN!

/Would be totally awesome to play a real counterstrike type game.
//Looks forward to Robot Jox wars...

Zik-Zak: China is not going to blow up the United States. No way. Not when they're going to repossess the United States.

/Oh, I'm sure Chimpy owes a lot of money to them.
//They may not repo the country, but they will collect something.

There's a saying I heard somewhere about how when you owe the bank $1000 it's your problem. When you owe the bank $1 Billion, it's the bank's problem.

Russia and China don't like this because it is another piece in the puzzle to giving the US a first strike ability and ending MAD. Russia is awash in oil money now, but they aren't doing anything to shore up the rapidly failing radar and SAM net around the Far East. Their ICBMs are getting long in the tooth and they've not upgraded what they have left like the US has done with the Minuteman or Tridents.

China's ICBM capability is...weak at best, their SLBMs blow, if I was Taiwan, I'd be afraid, but I'm not. If China went all out on the US, they could make us hurt, but they are decades away from MAD parity with the US, they could core 5-6 cities and some military bases, but that's it.

/Military historian
//Read and game way too much about this crap

homerdrew415: /Would be totally awesome to play a real counterstrike type game.

Hell yes!

The competitions in the BOO trailers would be pretty fierce though, and I expect that some friendly fire would ensue...

You guys can quit wetting your pants about a Russian/Chinese invasion. They simply do not have the ability to project their force to America in any reasonable number,particularly not in any way that wouldnt give us ample time to either stop the troop movement or call them off with a nuclear threat.

China's vast military might is only able to project upon its neighbors and Russia only has the nuke card left. Its regular military is pretty tied up internally. Going on an invasion would be like sending your entire police force out for donuts while the neighborhood is getting ready to riot.

Fiexie: ilambiquated: GurneyHalleck: SDI is a useless pipe dream waste of money designed to deal with a problem that never existed and never will. Nuclear war is not profitable for anyone, but pretending that it's a real threat is VERY profitable for American defense contractors.

But I suspect that the next administration will spend a lot less on it than this one.

Before or after the democrats screw up the primary? If your looking for "straight talk" express, see more of the military industrial complex wringing their hands in anticipation of a expanded campaign in Asia.

/goes back to playing Risk.

The country is broke.

krusader3z
The thing with SDI not working now, is analogous to people saying, 20 years ago, it's impossible to fit 16 gigs on a thumb-sized drive.

As proven time and time again in our modern day lives, tech does catch up with demand.

SDI will work eventually.

Sure, if ICBM technology stands still. However, when it comes to SDI, the attacker has major advantages. They can put up more warheads, use decoys, implement evasive manouvers into the missiles, target the satellites and landbased SDI sites...

The difficulties for SDI are non-trivial at best.

Digitalstrange
You guys can quit wetting your pants about a Russian/Chinese invasion.

I don't think some "Red Dawn" invasion was ever much of a possibility. But if you think the threat to America from China is decreasing, you haven't been paying much attention.

China's vast military might is only able to project upon its neighbors

Yeah, like Taiwan... a nation that we're legally obligated to defend.

Admittedly China and Russia most likely would not be able to stand up against the American technology, even if China and Russia joined together, it is just not feasible for them to be able to effectively do any major damage to America. Due to the large number of radar facilities around, if an unknown ship or plane gets anywhere near the American mainland, they will be detected and dealt with no question about it. The only way either side could do any damage would be to launch missiles, mainly nuclear missiles, which is something that just does not sit well with the international community. If they hit us with a nuke, a large majority of the civilized world will be against them. Despite all of this, from an onlookers point of view, it would be one hell of an awesome show to watch China/Russia and the US blow each other to hell.

Operation Chaos
The United States is not 'legally obligated' to defend anyone.

Actually, quite right. I'm wrong on this one.

Russia and China would have the same thing if they could...China probably will as soon as their technology catches up. They're spending record amounts of military weapons and technology, so it won't be long.

Besides, in it's current form it's a defensive weapon. We've already got offensive capability, we don't need more. Why not protect ourselves and other countries from the threat of some wacko rogue russian or chinese general, or some silly pakistani that feels launching a nuke into France will make the world notice him?

ManicParroT
The difficulties for SDI are non-trivial at best.

This is a safe assumption. :-)