you don't fix one problem by creating a new layer of stupidy on top of the original issue.

Weaver95: you don't fix one problem by creating a new layer of stupidy on top of the original issue.

Stupidity is an understatement.

I went to Wikipedia to check the crazy level on this one.

Apparently, besides being somewhat "ethically challenged", she called the L.A. riots a "rebellion".

So we would have a privatized government and a nationalized oil industry?

tallguywithglasseson: I went to Wikipedia to check the crazy level on this one.

Apparently, besides being somewhat "ethically challenged", she called the L.A. riots a "rebellion".

She was probably good friends with Cynthia McKinney.

Frank N Stein: So we would have a privatized government and a nationalized oil industry?

Sweet! We could get screwed twice!

Weaver95: you don't fix one problem by creating a new layer of stupidy on top of the original issue.

Dead on. Besides, nationalizing the US oil companies won't do shiat when we import the vast majority of our oil. I'm pretty sure the argument that "We can set the price because its a US company drilling the oil" lead to "Get the fark out" from any foreign country, even the Saudis.

Oil is already somewhat nationalized in the US, although that's probably the wrong term. If all of the tax breaks, loopholes, and environmental subsidies oil companies receive federally disappeared, Americans would be paying about $13 a gallon. I would support a free market concept of trading for oil.

She's not what I would describe as well spoken, and she apparently doesn't do her homework.

If I were to debate a guy like that, I would at least have a few notes to refer to, because obviously, she couldn't find the words she wanted to use.

Perhaps if she was allowed to speak in rhyme, it would have went better for her.

I personally believe we need to regulate anything that doesn't conform to a relatively normalized supply/demand curve.

The demand for oil is mostly static. There aren't a lot of products that can quadripple in price over an 8 year period without seeing demand drop any.

Energy is backbone of our economy. We should have a national interest in ensuring that our economy doesn't go down the toilet.

Sun God: If all of the tax breaks, loopholes, and environmental subsidies oil companies receive federally disappeared, Americans would be paying about $13 a gallon.

Agreed.

Step 1 - Pay Mexico to let us build high capacity state of the art Nuke plants and state of the art prisons in the desert.
Step 2 - Send electricity in all directions and criminals south of the border
Step 3 - Profit?

/Step 4 involves me and a new Tesla Roadster
//Maxine Waters is so stupid that if you called her dumb as a post, you'd have to find a post to apologize to first

homerdrew415: /Step 4 involves me and a new Tesla Roadster

That thing is great. If they combined that technology with those newer Lotus Elise/Exige cars, and could get the price down quite a lot, they'd sell like hotcakes.

Nationalize? What we need to do is obviate the oil industry.

Et tu, Chavez?

Sun God: Oil is already somewhat nationalized in the US, although that's probably the wrong term. If all of the tax breaks, loopholes, and environmental subsidies oil companies receive federally disappeared, Americans would be paying about $13 a gallon.

And naturally, those market forces would make us switch away from fossil fuels to renewable energy.

End corporate welfare.

Whatsleft: Nationalize? What we need to do is obviate the oil industry.

True, but until that happens this country is an oil addict and withdrawl will kill it. And oil companies will fight that kicking and screaming. I think we need to do our best to provide our country a safe, reasonably available oil supply as we slowly build up the tech we need to get off oil forever. A sort of oil methadone plan. I think treating oil more like electricity and water makes the most sense.

I don't see this happening, but they might use the vague threat of such action to pressure the oil companies into behaving slightly better for a while (and dumping extra large bribes to the politicians).

My father, a pro-business pro-capitalism good ol' boy Repubican gentlemen of almost forty years now, recently admitted to me that he'd be perfectly happy with nationalizing the oil industry if it would lead to the rapid development of alternative fuel sources.

We Live in California maybe ten minutes from three major west coast refineries. We actually have to travel further away to get better gas prices.

It's all those illegal aliens (you know who you are) bringing in cheap knock-off oil from Mexico that keeps the price of real oil down.

the only thing that's going to work in the long run people is to find an alternative. until then we need to drive more fuel efficient cars,carpool,use mass transit when we can,bicycle,walk when we can,maybe cut back to a 4 day @10hr work week for the jobs we can do that. that said the rest of the civilized world is way ahead of us in these areas.

how can we nationalize the oil industry when they have already corporatized our govt?

What? Use the profits to benefit the people, instead of the profiteers? How un-American can you get?

I guess scary trumps dumbass

And they best a guy who runs Shell Oil can do is say that we have seen this before, Hugo Chavez. They only pay .50 a gallon bring on the nationalization.

Sun God: Oil is already somewhat nationalized in the US, although that's probably the wrong term. If all of the tax breaks, loopholes, and environmental subsidies oil companies receive federally disappeared, Americans would be paying about $13 a gallon. I would support a free market concept of trading for oil.

How do you figure?

as our oil problem becomes more and more urgent I'd expect to see lots of terrible ideas floated as the fix.

not sure what the answer is, but that's not it.

What an intelligent and well-spoken woman she is.

I wonder if she has a newsletter.

Seit_N_Zounde: They only pay .50 a gallon bring on the nationalization.

Let's also just say gold is worth $1 an ounce and see how that works out.

That there is anything less then 50 million being spent in a giant push to get a less-polluting, renewable resource that can replace oil and gasoline is a sham - and the Bush administration not making this a national priority on par with funding Blackwater is a pathetic showing for 8 years.

That's my personal meme for this election - Eight Years Wasted. We've gained NOTHING in the last 8 years. We've lost a bit, and gained nothing. And so far, the Red side has done NOTHING to show they have intentions otherwise.

Remove all Republicans: It is time to start nationalizing industries to get prices under control.,

So if the government says a bar of gold is worth $5 and won't allow it to be sold for more, is it actually worth $5?

You seem to think it is. Everything about you suggests that you're the type of person that would think this. Everything.

If this is the person I'm thinking of, she's also on the NASA appropriations committee. Some years ago, when the Mars rovers had just landed, NASA gave that committee a special presentation to show how it had made good use of all the money they'd been given. They showed lots of pretty pictures of Mars taken by the rovers.

Waters raised her hand and asked, "can you drive the rovers to place where the astronauts landed?"

So just to review, she either doesn't know American (hell, *world*) history or she doesn't know the difference between the red planet and the gray moon - and our government gives her a substantial voice in deciding how much money we spend on space exploration and how that money is spent.

This is why we can't have nice things.

saintstryfe: That there is anything less then 50 million being spent in a giant push to get a less-polluting, renewable resource that can replace oil and gasoline is a sham

50 billion wouldn't fix the problem. You're farking clueless.

USP .45: Remove all Republicans: It is time to start nationalizing industries to get prices under control.,

So if the government says a bar of gold is worth $5 and won't allow it to be sold for more, is it actually worth $5?

You seem to think it is. Everything about you suggests that you're the type of person that would think this. Everything.

B..b..but Hugo Chavez did it, and he's so successful and popular.

unexplained bacon: as our oil problem becomes more and more urgent I'd expect to see lots of terrible ideas floated as the fix.

not sure what the answer is, but that's not it.

I'm sure it's only part of the answer... but how about announcing a CAFE standard (including light trucks) of 42 mpg by 2012?

That's what the EU has just done (more or less). The manufacturers scream it can't be done; it may or may not actually come into law. But amazingly, the up-coming models from all manufacturers are suddenly 95% of the way to the target... just in case it does.

Remove all Republicans: it takes a California politician to think like that.

Understatement.

frangelico_y_flamingo: I'm sure it's only part of the answer... but how about announcing a CAFE standard (including light trucks) of 42 mpg by 2012?

That's what the EU has just done (more or less). The manufacturers scream it can't be done; it may or may not actually come into law. But amazingly, the up-coming models from all manufacturers are suddenly 95% of the way to the target... just in case it does.

I'm not so sure her idea would really help, I don't think that's the answer.

raising CAFE standards sound like a good step.
going at new energy and efficiency technologies with a well funded and focused national effort is something I'd like to see. I mean a major project as if the future of our nation depends on it.

and lets appoint her Secratary of Oil, President Camacho

this is a stupid idea, but if the oil companies are up to shenanigans this kind of talk might scare them straight...

Weaver95: you don't fix one problem by creating a new layer of stupidy on top of the original issue.

Go to the DMV or the Post Office. Surround yourself in the pool of stupidity and inefficiency that dwells in there. Breathe it in. Observe how long it takes to do something as simple as purchase a single stamp (as you know the vending machines are out or broken).

Watch Shanaynayita glare at you in contempt for having the audacity of being there and forcing her to do her job. Witness as they turn something that should be a two-or three-step process into an 8 or 9.

Their customer service makes Wal-Mart's seem fast and their employees make the stoner at Blockbuster seem like a genius.

Now imagine these people running your health care and oil needs.

Nemo's Brother: Now imagine these people running your health care and oil needs.

And people are clamoring for this.

wait until the oil companies announce their profits made over the last couple months. I have a feeling they'll hit another record.

while your average american is being choked out by gas prices the realization that oil companies hit an all time profit record in the billions will cause much outrage. that outrage will be passed along to their representation who will start throwing out all kinds of ideas good, bad, and ugly.

combine that with the coming wave of democrats (much more at ease with kicking the oil companies in the box) and the oil companies will be on a short leash.

I'm not sure how much can be done with that route though. it's a big global problem.

Nemo's Brother: Now imagine these people running your health care and oil needs.

Booga booga!

You know, you can actually provide reasons why nationalization is a bad idea rather than scare tactics. There are valid reasons to oppose it other than this "da gubmint is gonna getcha" bullshiat.

I was thinking about this the other day and I know that this will not be popular with all you objectivist, but there are things that we need to do in this country that are not profitable. The farm bill is a good example. We need to get away from the industrialized, fertilized, hormone and steroid filled farming practices of the last century. This means rebuilding healthy soil and rotating crops (the thing that conservatives like to call paying farmers not to grow anything). This is not profitable for farmers, but necessary to stop the outsourcing of our food supply. I don't think that we need to make subsidizes any more; we need to consider these things an investment. We need to partner with these farms instead of giving them subsidies.

Same goes for building infrastructure. We need a rail system. The government needs to partner with companies that can build it and offer the investment to make it happen. They then need to share in the profit. This could work for oil companies. You want to drill on government owned land. No more ground leases. You will pay back the government at the same rate you would a private land owner, by the amount of oil or natural gas extracted. Then let the oil companies drill on federal land. Use the profit made from this to offset the price at the pump.

I know that some of you might view this as too close to the dreaded concept of socialism, but it really is not. It is the government (thus the people) participating in the free market. There are projects that are necessary that do not have enough short run return to be profitable in the private sector. If these programs would show more benefit to the American people then the government should invest in them. If these are successful programs in the long run we should reap the benefits of our investment.

Dancin_In_Anson: Nemo's Brother: Now imagine these people running your health care and oil needs.

And people are clamoring for this.

I'm not on board with this idea, or the idea that the federal government should mandate health ins. either.

that said, I'm not so sure exactly where you two stood over the years on the various actions carried out by the bush admin, but if you in any way supported that colossal trainwreck the republicans engineered over the last 8yrs you're as much to blame for a possible hard shift to the left as your average San Fransisco gay hippy.

not only that, but if you're past posts favored and defended any of the many republican failures your current opinions will be taken with that in mind. whether you've got it right this time or not, you'll be dismissed as perpetually wrong.

Nemo's Brother: Go to the DMV or the Post Office. Surround yourself in the pool of stupidity and inefficiency that dwells in there. Breathe it in. Observe how long it takes to do something as simple as purchase a single stamp (as you know the vending machines are out or broken).

Watch Shanaynayita glare at you in contempt for having the audacity of being there and forcing her to do her job. Witness as they turn something that should be a two-or three-step process into an 8 or 9.

Their customer service makes Wal-Mart's seem fast and their employees make the stoner at Blockbuster seem like a genius.

Now imagine these people running your health care and oil needs.

This is such bullshiat. I don't know what bizarro world you people live in, but I work with the government on a regular basis in my job and the people could not be more helpful. The last time I went to the DMV it took me less than 30 minutes at lunch time to get me license. I have never seen a vending machine at a post office out of order and considering that most people do not properly weigh or wrap things when they wait in line and are pains in the ass to deal with, I would say that those people do a pretty good job dealing with a public that wants attention once they get to the window but view those in front of them as a nuisance.

Maybe the problem with you is your prejudice against public sector workers. Maybe you treat them like shiat. Maybe they are jsut returning the favor. Like I said I have NEVER had a problem and I am in a government building hundreds of hours a year.

Operation Chaos:
Ah yes, the joys of 'central planning'...

Yep because every man for himself is a much better idea. Why even have a nation of laws. People are by nature good and fair. There is not need for a government. Think how much better off we would have been with out ARPANET. Then I would not be tempted to argue with morons like you everyday.

unexplained bacon: that said, I'm not so sure exactly where you two stood over the years on the various actions carried out by the bush admin, but if you in any way supported that colossal trainwreck the republicans engineered over the last 8yrs you're as much to blame for a possible hard shift to the left as your average San Fransisco gay hippy.

not only that, but if you're past posts favored and defended any of the many republican failures your current opinions will be taken with that in mind. whether you've got it right this time or not, you'll be dismissed as perpetually wrong.

What does this have to do with the government taking over private industry?

Or are you suggesting that it would be a good idea for one trainwreck to be followed by another?

DaSwankOne: This is not profitable for farmers, but necessary to stop the outsourcing of our food supply. I don't think that we need to make subsidizes any more; we need to consider these things an investment. We need to partner with these farms instead of giving them subsidies.

So your argument is: Subsidies. No subsidies. Subsidies.

"What?"

If it's "not profitable" yet the government forces them to do it, and gives them a handout so they can get buy, we call that a _________.

DaSwankOne: Maybe the problem with you is your prejudice against public sector workers. Maybe you treat them like shiat. Maybe they are jsut returning the favor. Like I said I have NEVER had a problem and I am in a government building hundreds of hours a year.

I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours working in government buildings dealing with local government employees myself, and I've gotta say, it can be totally farked.

I'm sure it varies from place to place, I've seen it both ways, but I have seen entire vital info systems shut down for over a week over relatively simple shiat. the government IT guys didn't seem too worried about it.
I've watched as gov. employees ignored the line at the counter and listened to them shiat on customers who were understandably confused by the ridiculous hoops they were required to jump through.

I'm a little worried when the government gets into a new area.

If it's done right I wont object, but...