Killer headline. What a travesty that event was. And no one held accountable.

+5 points, Subby. You know your History.

I'm kinda surprised the BBC isn't screaming about this from the top of their lungs; they aren't exactly fond of Israel. Not that this shouldn't be yelled about. Imagine the uproar if any other country came that close to shooting down a former leader. Israel gets way too much of a free pass.

It sounds like Blair's pilot/planning staff made a serious farkup.

If you were flying into Israeli airspace, last thing you want is for it to be a "surprise" for the Israelis.

Dayum, T's looking old.
He was what, 16, when he became PM?

/Pitt the Embryo

Awkward

Read it in the paper, sounded like the pilots (tony's) fault.

OIckyO

Pitt the Glint in the Milkman's Eye?

AHHH... visual inspection != close to shoot down. the story never says the Israelis locked onto his plane in anyway, nor did they ever arm their weapons.

The warplanes were scrambled to intercept after the jet pilot failed to contact air traffic control.

that pilot should get the dumbass tag.

Speaking as a pilot who traverses in and out of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world, the Air Defense Identification Zone in a 50 mile radius around Reagan national airport, I doubt that the pilot or Blair was in any danger.

When intercepted, the unknown jet is given many chances to comply before action is taken. The interceptor will fly close to the cockpit to see if he can establish visual contact with the pilot to see if the radio is out or not. You can fly close enough to see writing on pads of paper, if needed. There are a series of 'sign language' maneuvers airplanes do to talk to one another if the radio is out.

If the pilot is non-responsive, the fighter will dump flares infront of the unknown jet as a 'hey, I ain't farking around here buddy.' Then its up to the fighter pilot's discretion (read: his commander's rules of engagement) to engage or not. A fighter pilot can easily puncture a wing with cannon fire. disabling long-distance flight, to force the unknown airplane down without loss of life.

That being said, I don't know the air rules in enforcement over Israeli airspace but assume they are close to the rules and regulations of the ADIZ. Oh, ADIZ, how I hate you and your restrictions.

Lotsa hate for the Israel so far in this thread, for what was a fairly standard maneuver. Pilot didn't respond after several attempts, Israel scrambled jets to respond, and once they found out who it was everything was hunky-dory. So why exactly should anyone be outraged (except for Blair at his dumbass pilot)?

zedster: AHHH... visual inspection != close to shoot down. the story never says the Israelis locked onto his plane in anyway, nor did they ever arm their weapons.

This is a British newspaper. The story doesn't have to be true as long as it's dramatic.

So if you're a terrorist, all you gotta do is check in with air traffic control, and you're in the clear.

Since I'm not Hillary Clinton, I'm not qualified to answer this 3AM post on the internet.

FTA: Mr Blair, meanwhile, was heading back to London on a scheduled flight, his office said.

No shiat he was on a "scheduled flight" this time.

Fail Subby.

This jet wasn't marked by any national ensigns or colors.

The USS Liberty was flying the US flag and had been in proximity to the war zone very long time.

The Israeli's knew what they were doing in both cases.

GAT_00: I'm kinda surprised the BBC isn't screaming about this from the top of their lungs; they aren't exactly fond of Israel.

They don't engage in the fawning commentary of the American press. Given Israel's record on, err, everything, that's hardly a damning indictment of the beeb.

FTFA: "the Palestinian city of Bethlehem"

Palestine is a country now?

Awesome.

Xaneidolon: Killer headline. What a travesty that event was. And no one held accountable.

didnt you know?

israel had to pay back a tiny fraction of the welfare we give them.

that's accountability......american style.

CnFlght
Speaking as a pilot who traverses in and out of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world, the Air Defense Identification Zone in a 50 mile radius around Reagan national airport

Area 51 is not amused.

GAT_00: I'm kinda surprised the BBC isn't screaming about this from the top of their lungs; they aren't exactly fond of Israel.

We ain't exactly fond of Blair either. They should have shot the farker down, it'd be a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned.

was it an accident, or was it on purpose.. i live in the UK and i hate blair with a passion.. and a lot of people hate him too

I highly recommend Assault on the Liberty by James (Jim) Ennes. This wasn't even close the Liberty event, by any means. But major props to subby for knowing his history.

Warning:

Anyone who does not support the Israeli government in this thread is an anti-Semite. And if you're Jewish, you are a self-hating Jew.

farkityfarker: Anyone who does not support the Israeli government in this thread is an anti-Semite. And if you're Jewish, you are a self-hating Jew.

And if you type this bullshiat you are an idiot.

I would've loled.

I'm chuckling a bit at the very thought of it.

/farketyfarker: I thought your troll was too obvious but I was wrong. I'm sorry.

point #1 Even if you don't recognize Palestine, it's a fact, Jack.
point #2 English media = not true, but dramatic?
Fox, not facts mofo.
(I'm not english btw)
point #3 More wastage of American taxpayer dollars.
point #4 censored becoz the nsa is listening.
point #5 He actually had the mental capacity of Corky when he was elected.
i can't believe you didn't abortz me.

TappingTheVein: farkityfarker: Anyone who does not support the Israeli government in this thread is an anti-Semite. And if you're Jewish, you are a self-hating Jew.

And if you type this bullshiat you are an idiot.

I can has sarcasm?

TappingTheVein: And if you type this bullshiat you are an idiot.

Thank you for proving my point.

Dogbeast: They should have shot the farker down, it'd be a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned.

You can expect a visit from the Secret Service !!!1

Oh, wait, 'freedom' isn't just a marketing slogan in some countries.

/sorta kinda trolling

Tainted1: I can has sarcasm?

Ok i'll fix it:
And if you type this bullshiat and mean it you are an idiot.

The sentiment is quite common in threads about Israel.

FarkinNortherner: You can expect a visit from the Secret Service !!!1

Oh, wait, 'freedom' isn't just a marketing slogan in some countries.

/sorta kinda trolling

Bring 'em on. At this stage, I'm pretty sure I can convine them to join my cause, and then it's coup time.

Parliament - destroyed.
Politicians - deposed.
The Royal Family - restored as rightful rulers of this land and a grateful nation thanks me by by bestowing the title of Lord Dogbeast of the Internets upon me. And there was much rejoicing.

farkityfarker: Thank you for proving my point.

And thank you for proving mine.

USS Liberty was an accident. Those who claim to know the facts rarely do, but this is clear.

The US Air Force has killed US Navy sailors too. It wasn't a conspiracy then either.

What disgusts me is the USS Liberty enthusiasts obviously don't give a shiat for the dead sailors, as they only freak out when the accident was committed by 'teh jooos'. All the accidental fratricides don't get their blood boiling... except this one.

We blew up that Iranian Passenger plane. The USSR blew up that Korean one. This stuff is just one of the hideous things about the world... The idea that this boat had information that Israel couldn't afford the US to recover is so idiotic as to prove some kind of kook issue.

It's OK that Israel is packing the Palestinians into the concentration camps just like Hitler (Godwin!!!) and South Africa did.

But if anyone should speak out against that, you make sure to load up the ad hominems and other arguments (such as accusations of anti-semitism) since you have no valid defense!

farkityfarker: It's OK that Israel is packing the Palestinians into the concentration camps just like Hitler (Godwin!!!) and South Africa did.

Try being more subtle next time, you're trolling is lacking finesse.

Name? Ah... Tony and Clair Blair.

Thats funny, becuase of the accounts I read was that the USS Liberty was a mistake.

One of the pilots has gone on record as saying that there fighters were not equipped for attacking naval vessels, otherwise it would have been wiped out.

These are Israelis, if they want to destoy something, it's gone.

Zero One: Lotsa hate for the Israel so far in this thread, for what was a fairly standard maneuver.

WTF? I don't see any, especially before your post. I think everybody agrees it's a good idea to radio air traffic control.

And if being skeptical that the IDF mistook a clearly marked ship for a Egyptian one half of its size makes a me an Israel-hater, then you just added quite a few people to that list.

CnFlght: Speaking as a pilot who traverses in and out of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world, the Air Defense Identification Zone in a 50 mile radius around Reagan national airport, I doubt that the pilot or Blair was in any danger.

When intercepted, the unknown jet is given many chances to comply before action is taken. The interceptor will fly close to the cockpit to see if he can establish visual contact with the pilot to see if the radio is out or not. You can fly close enough to see writing on pads of paper, if needed. There are a series of 'sign language' maneuvers airplanes do to talk to one another if the radio is out.

If the pilot is non-responsive, the fighter will dump flares infront of the unknown jet as a 'hey, I ain't farking around here buddy.' Then its up to the fighter pilot's discretion (read: his commander's rules of engagement) to engage or not. A fighter pilot can easily puncture a wing with cannon fire. disabling long-distance flight, to force the unknown airplane down without loss of life.

That being said, I don't know the air rules in enforcement over Israeli airspace but assume they are close to the rules and regulations of the ADIZ. Oh, ADIZ, how I hate you and your restrictions.

Jeez, way to ruin a perfectly good knee-jerk reaction inducing story with your petty "experience" and "knowledge". Such things have no place here.

/Cool info, though
//Always happy to read something interesting like that

TappingTheVein: The sentiment is quite common in threads about Israel.

anti ____ country sentiment is common here & permitted, except for

Arcanum: The idea that this boat had information that Israel couldn't afford the US to recover is so idiotic as to prove some kind of kook issue.

The dominant theory is that they were going to blame Egypt and get the US into the war. It's feasible, but like all of them we'll never know for sure.

TappingTheVein Try being more subtle next time, you're trolling is lacking finesse.

How so? Do you have any valid arguments against what I said, other than your mis-spelled ad hominems?

Arcanum: USS Liberty was an accident. Those who claim to know the facts rarely do, but this is clear.

The US Air Force has killed US Navy sailors too. It wasn't a conspiracy then either.

What disgusts me is the USS Liberty enthusiasts obviously don't give a shiat for the dead sailors, as they only freak out when the accident was committed by 'teh jooos'. All the accidental fratricides don't get their blood boiling... except this one.

We blew up that Iranian Passenger plane. The USSR blew up that Korean one. This stuff is just one of the hideous things about the world... The idea that this boat had information that Israel couldn't afford the US to recover is so idiotic as to prove some kind of kook issue.


it's not like liberty had lowered their flags or just popped up out of nowhere.

farkityfarker: How so? Do you have any valid arguments against what I said

Uh, yes. It's total bullshiat.

The whole of Israel is a no-fly zone because of the major threats of terrorist attacks. An unidentified plane could be anyone or anything so the pilot made contact and it was all good!

Arcanum

Being familiar with military communications, the sticking point with me is that the Israelis were jamming particular US frequencies only; not frequencies known to be used by any other country, and certainly not the Egyptians. The Liberty was a spook ship, and the Israelis knew what to jam exactly.

There are inconsistencies to say it may have been an accident, but I lean towards thinking it wasn't one based on both sides I have read about.

Israel must be cleaning up loose ends in their "Let's get Bush to hit Iran" mission.

Ever get to thinking they may be the some arab nation crypto-hessians?