This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

Hagee is the least of McSame's worries...

/Keating 5, lobbyists in his campaign, Iran misquotes, etc.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud.

The sad part is that you're actually delusional enough to believe all of that. He didn't toss Hagee under the bus when his anti-Catholic statements came to light. He didn't show Obama jack squat.

Unfortunately he doesn't have a time machine so he can't go back and withdraw his solicitation of Hagee's endorsement.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

I would have figured he would have pandered for the right-wing vote. It's rather odd...McCain has been on a charm offensive lately for Independent and Democrat votes. SNL, Late Night, Ellen, interview with Essence magazine. He sure isn't courting the right-wing like he was during the nomination process.

zorgon: Unfortunately he doesn't have a time machine so he can't go back and withdraw his solicitation of Hagee's endorsement.

Exactly.

The fact is that he actively sought this endorsement to pander to the evangelical voters that don't really like him.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

*points and laughs*

Suicidal Writer: Controversy nipped in the bud.

Yeah, it only took 8 weeks.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

I'm really concerned about McCain's ability to win the presidency. He seems frail and weak in almost every major issue. It looks like the Democrats are too strong this year.

How abut ALL candidates for an elected office stay the fark away from astrologers, palm readers religious leaders and ALL such snake oil salesman?

It would have to be a bus like this.

SangamonTaylor:
I would have figured he would have pandered for the right-wing vote. It's rather odd...McCain has been on a charm offensive lately for Independent and Democrat votes. SNL, Late Night, Ellen, interview with Essence magazine. He sure isn't courting the right-wing like he was during the nomination process.

They, the religious right, aren't going anywhere. They certainly don't want an Obama presidency, so they won't stay home. The political religious right wants judges and McCain can at least promise them that (I hope it's just a ploy though). Independents will break for McCain on election day, no way around that. McCain is extremely pro-life so he can stand on his record, but, man, religious conservatives just don't take to him, but they have no choice but to vote for him.

We have Reagan Democrats and will soon have McCain Democrats. Wright and his wife pretty much shook any illusions America, as a whole, had of Obama's policy of change. It isn't his fault, but in politics it doesn't matter. He keeps questionable company that stokes the latent fears many people already had. The Republicans are going to have field day in this election. At least with Hillary everything was pretty much out of the bag. Their attacks would have fallen flat.

Nipped right in the bud...yeah, 3 months after the endorsement and strangely ONLY after the media started looking at Hagee's statements.



"What a big MAN you are!"

/besides, that dig at Obama about "he wasn't my spiritual advisor" only opens McCain up to assaults on the guy he DID call his "spiritual guide," Mr. America Was Founded to Destroy Islam

Suicidal Writer

You're getting better. Toss in some more questions-as-answers, bringing into doubt the motivations of the other posters, and you'll be well on your way to graphicaddiction land.

robsul82: Nipped right in the bud...yeah, 3 months after the endorsement and strangely ONLY after the media started looking at Hagee's statements.

This is the key. The media got a hold of it and McCain made a decision. He did not go on TV to give a really great speech, but a speech that, in the end, defended a controversial pastor. This is dead in the water. Wright, due to Obama's defense, will be a big factor in the general, so will his wife's gaffes.

Unright: I'm really concerned about McCain's ability to win the presidency. He seems frail and weak in almost every major issue.

as opposed to being concerned about whether or not he's actually qualified to BE president if he doesn't have answers to the issues.

Then again, the election is just a game anyway... and the important thing is for one's team to win the big game.

Took him long enough. There goes the attentive and energetic septuagenarian image.

SangamonTaylor: He sure isn't courting the right-wing like he was during the nomination process.

That's because the rule is to start out at the extreme during the primaries and move to the center by the general.

Unless you are Hillary Clinton, in which case you start out courting the people on the other side who hate you, and then explode in a spray of blood and feathers.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

Can I buy pot from you?

gilgigamesh: ...then explode in a spray of blood and feathers.

Ripped up yellow jackets, too.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move.

shiat. I answered you seriously in another thread. I should pay more attention to who people are.

/now Farky'd as "Do Not Feed"

gilgigamesh: Unless you are Hillary Clinton, in which case you start out courting the people on the other side who hate you, and then explode in a spray of blood and feathers.

it's not her blood

And they call Obama's pastor scary?

Jerimiah Wright looks like a cheap comedian next to this Hagee guy.

keylock71: Whatever happened to that nut job?

I witnessed a couple of his cyber-meltdowns (hilarious stuff), but I haven't seen him in... jeez seems like a few years.

Oh, he's still here. I can spot his hijinks by content (I think), but watch out for anyone named Liam. He had a good run as FlashLV, too.

I know he already showed up, so there's no need to summon him, but:

the second generation of lunatic freak political televangelists is just not measuring up to the standard set by falwell/robertson.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move. He showed Obama how it's done and this is why McCain will appeal to America enough to be our next president. Controversy nipped in the bud. You can't give rationalizations for defending hate mongers. Oddly enough, McCain could have gotten away with it. Interesting that he tossed the bigot under the bus.

wow - once again, you're first off the mark with a batshiat crazy post. november 4 is gonna be a loooong night for you.

So it's official. McCain doesn't give a shiat about the Catholics.

Suicidal Writer: robsul82: Nipped right in the bud...yeah, 3 months after the endorsement and strangely ONLY after the media started looking at Hagee's statements.

This is the key. The media got a hold of it and McCain made a decision. He did not go on TV to give a really great speech, but a speech that, in the end, defended a controversial pastor. This is dead in the water. Wright, due to Obama's defense, will be a big factor in the general, so will his wife's gaffes.

You seem to be forgetting Hagee's comments about gays causing Hurricane Katrina NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement, or calling the Catholic Church "The Great Whore" NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement. McCain dragged his feet on rejecting Hagee's endorsement as long as possible and you know it.

jimmyhaha: So it's official. McCain doesn't give a shiat about the Catholics.

Pretty much. Catholics OR gays. But since Florida hinges on it, here comes the rejection.

robsul82:
You seem to be forgetting Hagee's comments about gays causing Hurricane Katrina NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement

How would this hurt him? This would seem to be something the religious right would tend to agree with.

or calling the Catholic Church "The Great Whore" NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement


Hagee attacked the church, which is an organization. If he justified the torture and execution of catholics as an overall good thing, then point taken.

Look, McCain's has no problem with calling the Catholic Church "The Great Whore". He thinks papists bow to a foreign dictator. Why is everybody so up in arms?

First McCain seeks his endorsement... then after months of not denouncing him, he suddenly decides he no longer wants the endorsement?

Well... whatever is politically expedient for you, McCain... We know who and what you really represent.

Suicidal Writer: This is a swift and intelligent move.

Yet another new tactic from you. Yesterday you pretended to be a fan of Obama and then went on to try and smear him, today you pretend to think what McCain did is intelligent? Personally... I think my ignore list looks better with Suicidal Writer on it. I wonder how many of your other nicknames are on there as well? Three? Maybe four? Don't bother answering... I'm no longer listening to your brand of bullshiat.

Suicidal Writer: robsul82:
You seem to be forgetting Hagee's comments about gays causing Hurricane Katrina NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement

How would this hurt him? This would seem to be something the religious right would tend to agree with.

You stay classy - "as long as it doesn't hurt me politically, who cares?" You clearly have the candidate you deserve, if you're voting McCain.

or calling the Catholic Church "The Great Whore" NOT leading to a rejection of his endorsement


Hagee attacked the church, which is an organization. If he justified the torture and execution of catholics as an overall good thing, then point taken.

Yeah, it's still a horrible insult to some people, but since it's apparently not your religion, it's A-OK.

Neither of your responses, by the way, concern the central idea of my post - that there was no "rapid response" or "showing Obama how it's done." Only when it could hurt him politically did he do anything about it, and why? Because it was about the Jews. And why is that important? One word, seven letters -

F-L-O-R-I-D-A

robsul82: Only when it could hurt him politically did he do anything about it, and why? Because it was about the Jews. And why is that important? One word, seven letters -

F-L-O-R-I-D-A

This is the entire point. If it wasn't going to hurt him why would he shake off an endorsement he needed to appeal more to the religious right? Being seen as remotely anti-semitic is political suicide in a presidential election

Suicidal Writer: robsul82: Only when it could hurt him politically did he do anything about it, and why? Because it was about the Jews. And why is that important? One word, seven letters -

F-L-O-R-I-D-A

This is the entire point. If it wasn't going to hurt him why would he shake off an endorsement he needed to appeal more to the religious right? Being seen as remotely anti-semitic is political suicide in a presidential election

This is the entire point. You said it was "swift" and "showed Obama something." In actuality, it was the complete opposite and really just LIKE Obama - McCain/Obama weathers the first round of criticism about Wright/Hagee (gays/Catholics and "Goddamn America"), and when new shiat comes to light (Hagee's comments about the Holocaust/Wright's appearance at that media conference), they ditch him. They did, essentially, the same farking thing and yet you're trying to score cheap political points on the basis of "oh boy, that McCain sure showed Obama how it's done." It's bullshiat.

Suicidal Writer: Being seen as remotely anti-semitic is political suicide in a presidential election

That's why McCain sought the endorsement of someone who was rabidly anti-semitic. Goes to show he's a poor judge of character and a poor choice for president.

/Obama '08

Unright: Suicidal Writer: Being seen as remotely anti-semitic is political suicide in a presidential election

That's why McCain sought the endorsement of someone who was rabidly anti-semitic. Goes to show he's a poor judge of character and a poor choice for president.

/Obama '08

Not to mention some Obama surrogate should probably say something like that.

"Um, just by typing in 'John Hagee' at Google, you would've found all this stuff on page 1 BEFORE you went begging for his endorsement. What does this say about your ability to be president that you'd hire a staff that has no idea what Google is?"

Suicidal Writer: Being seen as remotely anti-semitic is political suicide in a presidential election

Being seen as a Christian Zionist isn't such a great move either. Regardless, he severed ties when it became politically advantageous, just like Obama.

robsul82:

This is the entire point. You said it was "swift" and "showed Obama something." In actuality, it was the complete opposite and really just LIKE Obama - McCain/Obama weathers the first round of criticism about Wright/Hagee (gays/Catholics and "Goddamn America"), and when new shiat comes to light (Hagee's comments about the Holocaust/Wright's appearance at that media conference), they ditch him.

Obama did more than just duck and cover. He actually defended Wright in an otherwise impressive speech, a speech he must have felt compelled to make because the Wright controversy was politically damaging, and it will be even more damaging in the general election. It pretty much was a so-so issue in the Democrat Party primaries. The country at large is generally not receptive to such a worldview and Obama comes off in a negative light by associating with him.

McCain ditched Hagee after the statements came to light, and swiftly enough that he stymied it before it became politically damaging. Attacking the Catholic Church, an organization that has run interference in favor of pedophiles, is not outside the mainstream (although calling her a whore is a bit much as a rhetorical flare). McCain is not hurting with religious Catholics. Obama may win the overall Catholic vote because they aren't monolithic. That wouldn't be surprising.

Also, Hagee apologized for his statements. Wright came out and made even more inflammatory statements. McCain did not attend Hagee's church for 20 years. McCain made a swift, astute political move and this will be a non-issue in the general. The Republicans will use Wright's words and Obama's defense of them within 2 months of the general, just as they used "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

Had Obama came out and swiftly rejected and denounced Wright, then he would have little to worry about. As usual, it's not the main issue that is the problem: it's the cover up/excuses.

McCain's said nothing to distance himself from the Klan-like anti-Catholic hate his best-friend-until-the-media-noticed spouted. Straight talk indeed.

mediaho:
Being seen as a Christian Zionist isn't such a great move either. Regardless, he severed ties when it became politically advantageous, just like Obama.

The problem with this is that he made a move like a typical politician. Obama didn't do anything any other politician wouldn't do, but his message is that he isn't a typical politician. He comes off terribly. He actually made it worse by rejecting Wright after he defended him. Clear politics. It's politics as usual. That's the problem. I don't think anyone expects anything different from establishment Republicans.

Suicidal Writer: Obama did more than just duck and cover. He actually defended Wright in an otherwise impressive speech, a speech he must have felt compelled to make because the Wright controversy was politically damaging, and it will be even more damaging in the general election. It pretty much was a so-so issue in the Democrat Party primaries. The country at large is generally not receptive to such a worldview and Obama comes off in a negative light by associating with him.

McCain ditched Hagee after the statements came to light, and swiftly enough that he stymied it before it became politically damaging. Attacking the Catholic Church, an organization that has run interference in favor of pedophiles, is not outside the mainstream (although calling her a whore is a bit much as a rhetorical flare). McCain is not hurting with religious Catholics. Obama may win the overall Catholic vote because they aren't monolithic. That wouldn't be surprising.

"all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."
-John McCain

"all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."
-John McCain

That statement is from February.

Suicidal Writer: The problem with this is that he made a move like a typical politician. Obama didn't do anything any other politician wouldn't do, but his message is that he isn't a typical politician. He comes off terribly. He actually made it worse by rejecting Wright after he defended him. Clear politics. It's politics as usual. That's the problem. I don't think anyone expects anything different from establishment Republicans.

Typical politicians brush their teeth. I don't think Obama has to stop his dental hygiene program to appear different.

Suicidal Writer: robsul82:

This is the entire point. You said it was "swift" and "showed Obama something." In actuality, it was the complete opposite and really just LIKE Obama - McCain/Obama weathers the first round of criticism about Wright/Hagee (gays/Catholics and "Goddamn America"), and when new shiat comes to light (Hagee's comments about the Holocaust/Wright's appearance at that media conference), they ditch him.

Obama did more than just duck and cover. He actually defended Wright in an otherwise impressive speech, a speech he must have felt compelled to make because the Wright controversy was politically damaging, and it will be even more damaging in the general election. It pretty much was a so-so issue in the Democrat Party primaries. The country at large is generally not receptive to such a worldview and Obama comes off in a negative light by associating with him.

McCain ditched Hagee after the statements came to light, and swiftly enough that he stymied it before it became politically damaging. Attacking the Catholic Church, an organization that has run interference in favor of pedophiles, is not outside the mainstream (although calling her a whore is a bit much as a rhetorical flare). McCain is not hurting with religious Catholics. Obama may win the overall Catholic vote because they aren't monolithic. That wouldn't be surprising.

Also, Hagee apologized for his statements. Wright came out and made even more inflammatory statements. McCain did not attend Hagee's church for 20 years. McCain made a swift, astute political move and this will be a non-issue in the general. The Republicans will use Wright's words and Obama's defense of them within 2 months of the general, just as they used "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

Had Obama came out and swiftly rejected and denounced Wright, then he would have little to worry about. As usual, it's not the main issue that is the problem: it's the cover up/excuses.

Hagee unapologized for his statements, first off.

Secondly, your bonus points for McCain because he didn't cast off Hagee until it was politically beneficial don't hold water. You can write your paragraphs and repeat it over and over, but "swift" is not a word to describe McCain's actions as you said, period.

Again, they did the exact same thing and you want to pretend McCain the Maverick decisively acted on Day 1 when the Hagee story broke to reject Hagee's support. It did not happen, as much as you want to touch yourself and pretend otherwise.

Suicidal Writer: That statement is from February.

Which is after the statements came out. He said that when someone asked about Hagee's statements in particular. The full quote:

I don't have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy. They are supporting my candidacy. I am not endorsing some of their positions. . . .

And I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel. That does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken on other issues.

Personally, I don't go for this whole 'guilt by association' nonsense but you guys started it (I'm speaking very generally, of course). You're going to talk about what's expected from politicians, how about not criticizing someone for something that you are doing equally?

That statement is from February.

So he was for anti-Catholic hatred before he was against it. Seriously, if I wanted to hear about how the evil Papist Cabal from the Great Whore of Rome, I'd subscribe to David Duke's newsletter.

jimmyhaha:

So he was for anti-Catholic hatred before he was against it. Seriously, if I wanted to hear about how the evil Papist Cabal from the Great Whore of Rome, I'd subscribe to David Duke's newsletter.

It's not about being "for it." The whole anti-Catholic issue didn't stick, and it wasn't politically damaging. Once anything vaguely resembling anti-semitism comes into play things are different, far different. The Catholic Church isn't exactly the most respected organization in the country. Catholics themselves don't even appear to care other than the Donahue types. Attacking Jews is not acceptable.

Suicidal Writer: jimmyhaha:

So he was for anti-Catholic hatred before he was against it. Seriously, if I wanted to hear about how the evil Papist Cabal from the Great Whore of Rome, I'd subscribe to David Duke's newsletter.

It's not about being "for it." The whole anti-Catholic issue didn't stick, and it wasn't politically damaging. Once anything vaguely resembling anti-semitism comes into play things are different, far different. The Catholic Church isn't exactly the most respected organization in the country. Catholics themselves don't even appear to care other than the Donahue types. Attacking Jews is not acceptable.

But he doesn't get points for not dealing with it as a result. A "maverick" wouldn't have cared that he'd get no brownie points from Republicans for ditching Hagee after the gays comment came out or "The Great Whore" came out.

You complain that Obama holds himself as a different kind of politician and doesn't live up to it - hello, what the fark do you call the Straight Talk Express and the maverick shiat?

Face facts - BOTH candidates hold themselves to be "different kinds of politicians" and BOTH of them dealt with their pastor problems when they had to.