The Secret Service put the kibosh on that one just a couple days before the event was to take place.

Guess they shoulda told McCain to go suck on a rock.

torch: Guess they shoulda told McCain to go suck on a rock.

Contrary to what most people thing, the NRA is not a 2nd amendment supporter. they are a "pro hunting" group, which has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, the sole and only reason our founding fathers put that in our constitution was to ensure the people had the mean to protect themselves from an oppressive government. Not so they could hunt......


The NRA in keeping with their recent history is more than willing to compromise our right away, Which is why I mailed back my NRA card, and no longer support the organization. NO COMPROMISE (new window)

The_Ancient:
Contrary to what most people thing, the NRA is not a 2nd amendment supporter. they are a "pro hunting" group, which has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, the sole and only reason our founding fathers put that in our constitution was to ensure the people had the mean to protect themselves from an oppressive government.

The malarkey they are. They are a Republican group. First and only. Thousands of elected Democrats in this country are pro-gun-rights. And the NRA hates them.

If they were a "hunting" group only, they'd have little to go on. Nothing the Clintons did, nothing Obama would do... nothing that Pelosi or Ted Kennedy would do... impacts hunting. That hunting rifle on the flyer that Hillary sent out? Legal in all 50 states, DC, Canada, and pretty much every country in Europe.

I'm not opposed to handguns, either. But, I think the best solution here should be state's and localities rights. I.e., I don't think the 14th amendment's "equal protection under the laws" clause incorporates the 2nd amendment to the states. No case law supports that. If Texas wants concealed carry... great. If Georgia allows it statewide, but allows cities to have bans? Great. Federal bans? No.

The 2nd Amendment would make sense if you were allowed a tactical nuclear missile. But no! fark this, I'm going to Canada where you're allowed nukes, napalm and mustard gas.

This is a war room! You can't fight in here!

The_Ancient: torch: Guess they shoulda told McCain to go suck on a rock.

Contrary to what most people thing, the NRA is not a 2nd amendment supporter. they are a "pro hunting" group, which has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, the sole and only reason our founding fathers put that in our constitution was to ensure the people had the mean to protect themselves from an oppressive government. Not so they could hunt......


The NRA in keeping with their recent history is more than willing to compromise our right away, Which is why I mailed back my NRA card, and no longer support the organization. NO COMPROMISE (new window)

dude, seriously, up your dosage. if the NRA is insufficiently pro 2nd amendment for you, then your future has the words "police standoff at the compound of a doomsday cult" in it. You are talking about the org that elected Wayne LapPierre on the platform of opposing restrictions on full-auto weapons

every other freedom you have is subject to "reasonable restrictions on time place and manner in order to validate a compelling state interest"

This is why you cannot falsely shout "fire" in a crowded theater or freely exercise your religion if it happens to involve human sacrifice. SO why should your second amendment rights be any different?

Magorn: the NRA is insufficiently pro 2nd amendment

Well, it's true. EVERY one of the ever more restrictive gun control laws has been created with the input and blessing of the NRA. Compromise after compromise.

Magorn:
every other freedom you have is subject to "reasonable restrictions on time place and manner in order to validate a compelling state interest"

This is the reason each and every right is watered down to nothing on a daily basis, because people like YOU, magorn, think that the states interests should always override individual rights and freedoms. An idea that is totally in opposition to what the founders originally created. Way to go, you pinko commie.

This is the reason each and every right is watered down to nothing on a daily basis, because people like YOU, magorn, think that the states interests should always override individual rights and freedoms. An idea that is totally in opposition to what the founders originally created. Way to go, you pinko commie.

THIS!

I also wonder what McCain and the NRA think about knives. They by every definition are arms protected by the second amendment, yet there are several laws restricting the sale and distribution of certain types of knives.

Gun elitists like the NRA and GOA only seem to care about protecting arms that they like.

implementor: This is the reason each and every right is watered down to nothing on a daily basis, because people like YOU, magorn, think that the states interests should always override individual rights and freedoms. An idea that is totally in opposition to what the founders originally created. Way to go, you pinko commie.

THIS!

This is why people that shoot up schools can get guns legally.

every other freedom you have is subject to "reasonable restrictions on time place and manner in order to validate a compelling state interest"

This is why you cannot falsely shout "fire" in a crowded theater or freely exercise your religion if it happens to involve human sacrifice. SO why should your second amendment rights be any different?

THIS!

Property rights and all that. It is perfectly acceptable to disallow any weapon into an area that you have property rights control over.


FTA Barbara Heetderts of Dallas was about to follow her husband through the screening when an officer found she had six spent shell casings. She was barred from entry.

"Why?" she asked. "It's empty brass cases."

"They're cartridges," the officer said.

"No, they're cases," she replied. "A cartridge has powder, a primer and a bullet in it."

I like this woman. If she was not married nor me, I would ask her to marry me.

implementor: This is the reason each and every right is watered down to nothing on a daily basis, because people like YOU, magorn, think that the states interests should always override individual rights and freedoms. An idea that is totally in opposition to what the founders originally created. Way to go, you pinko commie.

THIS!

pinko commie?

who says that anymore? youve been waitching too many all in the family re-runs.

Saiga410: Property rights and all that. It is perfectly acceptable to disallow any weapon into an area that you have property rights control over.

B-b-but gun rights are more important! The second amendment protects all the rest!

LocalCynic Quote 2008-05-18 11:54:04 AM
I also wonder what McCain and the NRA think about knives. They by every definition are arms protected by the second amendment, yet there are several laws restricting the sale and distribution of certain types of knives.

Gun elitists like the NRA and GOA only seem to care about protecting arms that they like.

Yeah and if they catch you with a petrol bomb or some semtex it's all like "oh look he's a terrorist, he couldn't possibly be using it for home use!"
Farking pussies

American Knife & Tool Institute (new window)

Horses for courses.

Kar98: This is a war room! You can't fight in here!

It's "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I think all NRA events should REQUIRE that everyone carry a concealed weapon.

LocalCynic: Saiga410: Property rights and all that. It is perfectly acceptable to disallow any weapon into an area that you have property rights control over.

B-b-but gun rights are more important! The second amendment protects all the rest!


Well in this case that argument has as much validity as people stating "I know you have a right to arms but I do not see the need to have an assault rifle so you should not have access to one."

Asshats that have no basis to even start a rights based argument.

Well actually one is overlooking a right in defense of one that they feel passionately about while the over just overlooks right in defense of their own feelings of safety.

Naaa asshats all around.

Saiga410: Well in this case that argument has as much validity as people stating "I know you have a right to arms but I do not see the need to have an assault rifle so you should not have access to one."

...or stating "I know you have a right to arms but I do not see the need to have a switchblade knife because guns are better."

The NRA/GOA/etc. are willing to disregard the rights of people who can't afford or simply don't want guns, but still want to be able to defend themselves with other types of arms.

I'm canceling my NRA membership as well. Only I'm doing it because I'm tired of receiving bi-weekly offers for life insurance. That and the local gun range has removed "be a member of the NRA" from it's membership requirements. And the above poster is ABSOLUTELY correct about the NRA being less a pro gun and more a pro republican organization (at least in their correspondence with members). That aspect has really spiraled out of control over the last year and a half or so.
/joined after the awesome political ad that had the man in the basement tearing apart the flag
//forgot what the message was but it was probably one of the best ads for anything musch less politics that I had ever seen

Good thing the NRA clubbers prefer to surrender their testicles to cower before the massive pussy-bag known as John McCain.

The "Proud Defenders of the Second Amendment & the Constitution" wouldn't want to frighten the Republican Deathcult with any indication that they loved their freedoms or liberty or ability to defend themselves. Good thing the NRA is gladly surrendering their personal sovereignty to appease the terrorist tactics of the GOP.

Hard to believe how many NRA folks have become willing self-disarming LIBERALS when faced with the potential to hear an anti-gun anti-freedom anti-American GOP Deathcultist speak to them.

// Surrender your guns and surrender your balls at the door, NRA pussy-wimps.

Lawnchair: I don't think the 14th amendment's "equal protection under the laws" clause incorporates the 2nd amendment to the states

On what basis do you differentiate between the 1st and 2nd Amendments?

Lawnchair: No case law supports that

That's about to change.

As for the NRA, I've washed my hands of them. They've proven they don't give a shiat about gun rights anymore- all they care about is sucking up to the GOP. Even inviting McCain- the McCain-Feingold McCain- to speak to them as though they were a Republican PAC shows that they have absolutely no principles.

The GoA is better on gun rights, but unfortunately I've heard they also tend to get involved in unrelated issues. Their scorecards supposedly included issues more related to being socially conservative than pro-RTKBA.

oh so appropriate

Hey, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION!

Go here to get some symbolic replacement testicles for the ones you surrendered at that "John McCain yakking at you session". Your wife can keep them in her purse for you.

http://www.truck-nuts.com/index.html (pops)

Churchill2004: They've proven they don't give a shiat about gun rights anymore- all they care about is sucking up to the GOP.

If the GOP and NRA are are not sufficiently pro-gun for your tastes, this might be a warning sign that you've crossed a boundary into the lunatic fringe.

equilibrium: Churchill2004: They've proven they don't give a shiat about gun rights anymore- all they care about is sucking up to the GOP.

If the GOP and NRA are are not sufficiently pro-gun for your tastes, this might be a warning sign that you've crossed a boundary into the lunatic fringe.

The GOP is far too pro-government for my pro-rights stance. It has nothing to do with them not being "pro-gun" enough.

Couple of highlights:

"Why?" she asked. "It's empty brass cases."

"They're cartridges," the officer said.

"No, they're cases," she replied. "A cartridge has powder, a primer and a bullet in it."

"I'm saying you can't take them in," the officer said.


Saiga410 noticed this one too. Well done, ma'am.

Her empty cases joined hundreds of knives, scissors and nail clippers at the kiosk. The line now stretched across the lobby, and the woman running the German Roasted Nuts stand on the far side began taking knives and placing them in white paper bags bearing the owner's name.

The nut stand owner can do what the TSA has apparently been totally farking unable to do for eight Goddamn years.

NAVY SEAL Marcus Luttrell told the crowd he'd been briefly jailed in New York Thursday for slapping a foreign-sounding man who had insulted America.

This is called "assault and battery", I think. It doesn't matter what he said, and it definitely doesn't matter that you're a Navy SEAL, son. I mean, if you can't restrain yourself, sure, slap the guy. But don't be surprised when it turns out to be a farking crime. This is not exactly a breach of your First Amendment rights.

Churchill2004: Lawnchair: I don't think the 14th amendment's "equal protection under the laws" clause incorporates the 2nd amendment to the states

On what basis do you differentiate between the 1st and 2nd Amendments?


The "incorporation cases" on the 14th have typically relied on the Equal Protection clause. For the First Amendment, if anyone may practice religion, speech, press, redress, etc, it is a matter of the Equal Protection clause that all people must have the right to free religion, speech, etc. Not necessarily so with gun laws. A "no one, no matter their color, age, etc, may have a RPG launcher" law gives equal protection. A registration law is equal protection, too, at least prima facie.

The Second may fall under the Privileges and Immunities clause. But, it has not been found to be so.


Lawnchair: No case law supports that

That's about to change.


I think you'll be disappointed if you think Parker v DC is going to answer the above question one way or the other. I expect a very narrow ruling that leaves the broader question for another term.

equilibrium: If the GOP and NRA are are not sufficiently pro-gun for your tastes, this might be a warning sign that you've crossed a boundary into the lunatic fringe

There are states today, several states in fact, that have more liberal (in the the true sense) gun laws than the either the NRA or the national GOP advocate. Vermont, New Hampshire, and Montana are just a few. All remarkably safe states, by the way.


TheWizard: The GOP is far too pro-government for my pro-rights stance. It has nothing to do with them not being "pro-gun" enough

This, too.

Lawnchair: The "incorporation cases" on the 14th have typically relied on the Equal Protection clause. For the First Amendment, if anyone may practice religion, speech, press, redress, etc, it is a matter of the Equal Protection clause that all people must have the right to free religion, speech, etc. Not necessarily so with gun laws. A "no one, no matter their color, age, etc, may have a RPG launcher" law gives equal protection. A registration law is equal protection, too, at least prima facie

That is utter nonsense. Using that logic a state law banning all criticism of the government would be valid as long as it applied equally to everyone.

I can sit here all day and shoot holes in the way the Incorporation Doctrine has been arrived at, but given the current state of things any distinction between the 1st and 2nd Amendments is fallacious. Arguably, the 2nd applies directly to the states in a way the 1st Amendment does not. The 1st specifically states that Congress can't violate those rights. The 2nd simply states that they shall not be violated.

While abstaining from the gun legalization debate here, I would just like to congratulate subby on the correct use of the tag.

Nice job.

The_Ancient: torch: Guess they shoulda told McCain to go suck on a rock.

Contrary to what most people thing, the NRA is not a 2nd amendment supporter. they are a "pro hunting" group, which has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, the sole and only reason our founding fathers put that in our constitution was to ensure the people had the mean to protect themselves from an oppressive government. Not so they could hunt......


The NRA in keeping with their recent history is more than willing to compromise our right away, Which is why I mailed back my NRA card, and no longer support the organization. NO COMPROMISE (new window)



FAIL

google nra.org and read their description.

"Everything firearm related. Includes information on Second Amendment rights, NRA Training and Education, Politics and Legislation pertaining to gun rights."

oops. time to stop listening to air america and start thinking for yourself.

GoBears: While abstaining from the gun legalization debate here, I would just like to congratulate subby on the correct use of the tag.

Nice job.


it definitely is ironic that an NRA event isn't allowing guns, but given the fact that one of the presidential candidates is in attendance - it kinda makes some sense, at least.

Churchill2004: There are states today, several states in fact, that have more liberal (in the the true sense) gun laws than the either the NRA or the national GOP advocate. Vermont, New Hampshire, and Montana are just a few. All remarkably safe states, by the way.

I'd be willing that the "safety" of those states is more a function of population density and demographics than their gun laws.

equilibrium: I'd be willing to bet that the "safety" of those states is more a function of population density and demographics than their gun laws.

FTFM

equilibrium: I'd be willing that the "safety" of those states is more a function of population density and demographics than their gun laws

I could play the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" game with you all day. It's all a moot point anyway. Lower crime rates would never justify violating the 2nd Amendment any more than the 1st, 4th, or 5th.

tgregory:
oops. time to stop listening to air america and start thinking for yourself.

How is reading the NRA's web site make me wrong, their actions, or inactions as the case my be prove they are not friends of the second amendment, they support gun restriction after gun restriction, just to placate the gun grabbers

I judge them on their actions, not on their words

tgregory: it definitely is ironic that an NRA event isn't allowing guns, but given the fact that one of the presidential candidates is in attendance - it kinda makes some sense, at least.

No it doesn't. That room would probably be the safest place in the world that John McCain could be standing. He's shown himself to either be scared of law abiding but armed citizens, or an elitist who thinks that he's just too good to have to talk to average people.

tgregory: FAIL

google nra.org and read their description.

"Everything firearm related. Includes information on Second Amendment rights, NRA Training and Education, Politics and Legislation pertaining to gun rights."

oops

Fail my ass. Just as freaking fruit loops are not "an essential part of a healthy breakfast", the NRA doesn't give a shiat about the 2nd Amendment. They're not in the business of protecting anybody's rights, they're in the business of making money, regardless of what they're saying they do.

What is with the knife shiat? Are these people really off their head?

Do people seriously think 'I can't bring a gun, so I'll take a knife' or 'I can't bring a gun inside, so I'll leave it in the car?'

Who needs a weapon at a presidential rally? Don't you all agree with each other? How paranoid can you get?

moothemagiccow: What is with the knife shiat? Are these people really off their head?

Do people seriously think 'I can't bring a gun, so I'll take a knife' or 'I can't bring a gun inside, so I'll leave it in the car?'

Who needs a weapon at a presidential rally? Don't you all agree with each other? How paranoid can you get?

This is the type of elitist attitude that is going to cost McCain votes. He goes to pander to a gun rights group, but disarms them before they can see him.

Former Bush mini-me Karl Rove got three standing ovations as he made jokes about Barack Obama's unfortunate remark about bitter people clinging to guns and religion.

"Doesn't that make us clingers?" Rove asked the crowd. "Or does that make us Klingons?"

This is a joke? Who's up next? Carrot Top?

Everyone knows that the second amendment is really about everybody having the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall.



Thank you Imageshack.

moothemagiccow: Former Bush mini-me Karl Rove got three standing ovations as he made jokes about Barack Obama's unfortunate remark about bitter people clinging to guns and religion.

"Doesn't that make us clingers?" Rove asked the crowd. "Or does that make us Klingons?"

This is a joke? Who's up next? Carrot Top?

Carrot top is at least occasionally funny...and mostly legal...except the recent steroid abuse.

Magorn: This is why you cannot falsely shout "fire" in a crowded theater or freely exercise your religion if it happens to involve human sacrifice. SO why should your second amendment rights be any different?

It's illegal to cause an irrational panic or kill people unless it's in self defense. It's not free speech that's regulated, it's not religion that's regulated.

Go read up a bit on negative liberty.

I'm wondering why there's so much effort to go after 'assault rifles' but not handguns. it's fairly easy to argue that handguns are used in disproportionately more citizen vs citizen violence than rifles. I feel like it's also fairly easy to argue that rifles would be more useful in a 'Resisting an Oppressive Goverment' application. is it just due to police lobbying? 'assault rifles' are scarier? genuinely curious.