Right. Because people *should* be able to sell counterfeit goods freely.

I heard all the fleas made a clean getaway.

Damn Socialists, always cracking down on flea market economics

Pocket Ninja: Right. Because people *should* be able to sell counterfeit goods freely.

Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

Thanks in advance,

Back in the early 1990s, I bought a fake Gucci watch in Times Square - it ran perfectly for 11 years.

Who are Chanel, Prada, and Louis, and what did they do to deserve to be sold at flea markets?

SchlingFo: Pocket Ninja: Right. Because people *should* be able to sell counterfeit goods freely.

Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

Unfortunately for your viewpoint, state and federal legislators don't agree.

SchlingFo: Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

Thanks to our drug laws and things like the DMCA, the police and the criminal justice system are pretty much two more arms of the corporate profit machine.

Our entire society is set up to funnel money to rich corporations. Why shouldn't the police be employed to help?

I get all my bootlegged stuff from China (Thank you, mom). So I couldn't really care less about this.

SchlingFo: Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

...which would make enforcement of counterfeiting laws virtually impossible due to the global nature and general slipperiness of counterfeiters, especially for smaller designers who don't have the deep pockets of the big guys. If I design a cool t-shirt or something I'd rather not spend the next 20 years of my life tied up in court proceedings against dozens of random anonymous Chinese guys, thanks.

SchlingFo: Pocket Ninja: Right. Because people *should* be able to sell counterfeit goods freely.

Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

--

Out here, the Constables handle civil matters like that, and they are sworn police officers. The Sheriff will handle criminal matters.

FTA: "Police said they had received complaints manufacturers of Chanel, Prada and Louis Vuitton products about counterfeit merchandise"

What an abortion of a sentence.

I still don't understand why idiot women will go out and blow $700 on a FARKING BAG. Then we have other idiots that will go buy a knock-off bag that just looks like an expensive bag so they can give other expensive bag buying idiots the impression that they have enough disposable income to piss away $700 on a farking bag.

I hate humans.

who gives a shiat? i stay away from name brand fashion as much as i can. bunch of homos who care about this shiat anyway.

stiletto_the_wise 2008-05-11 06:20:38 PM
Our entire society is set up to funnel money to rich corporations. Why shouldn't the police be employed to help?

The fact that government taxes the hell out of the stuff they sell and loses money when people sell fakes is one reason you might agree with.

Have to side with the cops on this one. Unless they are being sold as look-a-likes it's completely wrong.

Link (new window)
Swap Meet Louie

TheOther^tm - accept no other

As long as I can still get my counterfeit Members Only jackets, I really don't care.

free market my ass.

evilstein: I still don't understand why idiot women will go out and blow $700 on a FARKING BAG. Then we have other idiots that will go buy a knock-off bag that just looks like an expensive bag so they can give other expensive bag buying idiots the impression that they have enough disposable income to piss away $700 on a farking bag.

I don't get it either. My daughter & I were looking at purses last week (I need a new one). I said, "I like this one." *check tag* "I just don't like it $60 worth!!"

Maybe I'll just go back to backpacks.

TheOther: TheOthertm - accept no other

I prefer TheOne^tm

Wise_Guy

Anything like

evilstein: I still don't understand why idiot women will go out and blow $700 on a FARKING BAG. Then we have other idiots that will go buy a knock-off bag that just looks like an expensive bag so they can give other expensive bag buying idiots the impression that they have enough disposable income to piss away $700 on a farking bag.

I think the word you're looking for is 'elitism'.

A lot of these knockoffs are brought in by organized crime. Just like fake jeans sold out of your garage....

techmom: Maybe I'll just go back to backpacks.

Please do. I saw this woman the other day carrying a massive bag, probably full of books(right near a college campus). She looked like she was having a hell of a time just trying to walk in a straight line. I wondered why she didn't have a damn backpack.

CruJones: Just like fake jeans sold out of your garage....

Garage? Hey, fellas, the garage. Well, ooh la-di-da, Mr. Frenchman.

/a car hole

Tony326: evilstein: I still don't understand why idiot women will go out and blow $700 on a FARKING BAG. Then we have other idiots that will go buy a knock-off bag that just looks like an expensive bag so they can give other expensive bag buying idiots the impression that they have enough disposable income to piss away $700 on a farking bag.

I think the word you're looking for is 'elitism'.

"To simulate is to feign to have what one hasn't." - Jean Baudrillard, Simulacra and Simulation

Pocket Ninja:

Right. Because people *should* be able to sell counterfeit goods freely.


There does seem to be a lot of stupid in the air today, doesn't there? You wouldn't think that would be up for argument.

One good reason to crack down on knockoff is that many are made by the Chinese Tibetan-terrorizers.

Starblind: SchlingFo: Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

...which would make enforcement of counterfeiting laws virtually impossible due to the global nature and general slipperiness of counterfeiters, especially for smaller designers who don't have the deep pockets of the big guys. If I design a cool t-shirt or something I'd rather not spend the next 20 years of my life tied up in court proceedings against dozens of random anonymous Chinese guys, thanks.

Um, you realize that is exactly the situation we're in right now, yes? RIAA/MPAA have gotten cops involved in their copyright cases. But all the crackdown, purges, letters, and lawsuits haven't made a dent in the so called 'piracy' problem. People still run bit torrent clients. Files get traded, data gets sent and recieved and RIAA/MPAA are largely cut out of the loop.

So what do you do? The laws (as written by major corporations for their sole benefit) are unenforcable. Technology has rendered copyright law largely irrelevant in the 21st century. Enforcement has failed. The courts are powerless. What now? What's the next move?

I made a trip to NYC a few months ago. While I was walking through Chinatown, I noticed a huge store that was completely shuttered in the middle of the day. It had orange stickers all over the shutters that said it was a crime to remove anything from the premises, and the reason being that they had been busted selling counterfeit items.

My first thought was, NYPD doesn't have anything better to do that this? Really?

DrBenway: There does seem to be a lot of stupid in the air today, doesn't there? You wouldn't think that would be up for argument.

Yeah the stupidy is being concentrated in Ohio today. Not Florida.

/By the way Ohio State football team is looking good this year.
//McCain is probably going to win the election by winning Ohio.

Well, in defense, I would argue that fat, snobbish women who pay $400 for a handbag are paying for the exclusivity of the brand. Even if people who buy knockoffs wouldn't buy the real McCoy, counterfeiting does hurt business, because those women will then have to switch to some other status quo, like a mink coat, in order to advertise to everyone else that they are better than them.

StormChaser: I made a trip to NYC a few months ago. While I was walking through Chinatown, I noticed a huge store that was completely shuttered in the middle of the day. It had orange stickers all over the shutters that said it was a crime to remove anything from the premises, and the reason being that they had been busted selling counterfeit items.

My first thought was, NYPD doesn't have anything better to do that this? Really?

I love walking through Chinatown - "DVD DVD DVD DVD DVD DVD"

Trader's World, just up the road from "Touchdown" Jesus! God bless Ohio.

Just like a mini-mall my ass. I don't remember the last time MY mini-mall got raided by the cops for selling counterfeit goods.

ultraholland: Please do. I saw this woman the other day carrying a massive bag, probably full of books(right near a college campus). She looked like she was having a hell of a time just trying to walk in a straight line. I wondered why she didn't have a damn backpack.

I used to keep my wallet in the diaper bag, eons ago... then I went back to college, and always had a backpack. I'm still trying to adjust to having to carry a purse.

evilstein
I still don't understand why idiot women will go out and blow $700 on a FARKING BAG. Then we have other idiots that will go buy a knock-off bag that just looks like an expensive bag so they can give other expensive bag buying idiots the impression that they have enough disposable income to piss away $700 on a farking bag.

Yeah, it's stupid. But so long as these 'luxury goods purveyors' keep selling ugly 'must-haves' and concentrate mainly on creating status objects via branding this will continue to happen.

Starblind
...which would make enforcement of counterfeiting laws virtually impossible due to the global nature and general slipperiness of counterfeiters, especially for smaller designers who don't have the deep pockets of the big guys. If I design a cool t-shirt or something I'd rather not spend the next 20 years of my life tied up in court proceedings against dozens of random anonymous Chinese guys, thanks.

That's very unlikely. Something that's 'cool' enough for counterfeiters to copy would most likely be something already hugely popular. Most counterfeit items are copies of things on which millions is spent on branding, not on actually making anything that's really that nice. That's why there's fake Louis Vuitton wallets or Burberry scarves everywhere but never fake Betsy Johnson dresses.

Since people buying the fakes would be unlikely to buy the real thing, the only way that it is 'hurting' these businesses is that the 'wrong' sort of people are being seen with those labels.

Weaver95: Starblind: SchlingFo: Intellectual property enforcement should be a matter for civil courts, not a police matter.

...which would make enforcement of counterfeiting laws virtually impossible due to the global nature and general slipperiness of counterfeiters, especially for smaller designers who don't have the deep pockets of the big guys. If I design a cool t-shirt or something I'd rather not spend the next 20 years of my life tied up in court proceedings against dozens of random anonymous Chinese guys, thanks.

Um, you realize that is exactly the situation we're in right now, yes? RIAA/MPAA have gotten cops involved in their copyright cases. But all the crackdown, purges, letters, and lawsuits haven't made a dent in the so called 'piracy' problem. People still run bit torrent clients. Files get traded, data gets sent and recieved and RIAA/MPAA are largely cut out of the loop.

So what do you do? The laws (as written by major corporations for their sole benefit) are unenforcable. Technology has rendered copyright law largely irrelevant in the 21st century. Enforcement has failed. The courts are powerless. What now? What's the next move?

Firstly, I think it's fundamentally impossible to compare sharing an MP3 online with setting up a giant factory in China to send illegal fake clothing and accessories to allcorners of the earth.

But the important bit in either case is enforcing the laws that are already there rather than encoraging a zillion new IP lawsuits. I wouldn't want my favourite band to stop touring and recording and start suing fans left and right, and I see no reason designers should be expected to do the same.

In a television interview, a spokesman for the police department that conducted the raid used the word terrorist several times. He offered no evidence, but just said that federal studies show that money from counterfeit sales like this are funneled to terrorists. So remember, if you buy counterfeit goods at flea markets, you're supporting terrorists.

I worked at the keybooth in a flea market for a while. There were occasional raids (every 6 months or so). The most common counterfeit items weren't Prada etc. They were common name brands like Nike. Also Disney and other cartoon characters were really common for toys and clothing made in China and sold here without paying Disney etc their cut. We'd also get raids for illegal aliens occasionally, whats funny is the INS would always warn the owner of the flea market a few days ahead, the owner would quietly mention it to a few friends and word would spread. The place would be a ghost town by the time the raid happened.

kittylittle: Most counterfeit items are copies of things on which millions is spent on branding, not on actually making anything that's really that nice. That's why there's fake Louis Vuitton wallets or Burberry scarves everywhere but never fake Betsy Johnson dresses.

I don't buy stuff emblazoned with a big brand-name logo. Why is that stuff more expensive? It's a walking free advertisement, it ought to be discounted.

/I'm looking at you, Roots
//good quality stuff, but geez, get over yourself

To the FBI and Homeland Security, counterfeit purses = terrorism, in the first place.

Pocket Ninja

The thing is, you're right. Unfortunately that still doesn't justify spending taxpayer-funded resources to protect brand names that 99% of taxpayers either don't want or can't afford.

Weaver95: Um, you realize that is exactly the situation we're in right now, yes? RIAA/MPAA have gotten cops involved in their copyright cases. But all the crackdown, purges, letters, and lawsuits haven't made a dent in the so called 'piracy' problem. People still run bit torrent clients. Files get traded, data gets sent and recieved and RIAA/MPAA are largely cut out of the loop.

For profit vs not for profit.

Collecting a bunch of electrons arraigned in a specific way, to get a product(music/movies) for free is a lot different than setting up a manufacturing and distribution process specifically set up as a for-profit enterprise.

This is akin to buying a DVD, and burning several hundred/thousand/million copies and selling them on the street corner. Or flea market. And keeping the profits.

Downloading, just because you can, is not 'right'. It cuts into peoples livelihood and income. (no, not just the 'rich' artists)
But the music/movie industry can't survive clinging to their old ways. I don't know where/how they should change...but it ain't working.

Mike Greenwell: StormChaser: I made a trip to NYC a few months ago. While I was walking through Chinatown, I noticed a huge store that was completely shuttered in the middle of the day. It had orange stickers all over the shutters that said it was a crime to remove anything from the premises, and the reason being that they had been busted selling counterfeit items.

My first thought was, NYPD doesn't have anything better to do that this? Really?

I love walking through Chinatown - "DVD DVD DVD DVD DVD DVD"

Everyone in Chinatown wants me to buy one of two things: jewelry or purses, usually purses. Actually, that goes for the rest of NYC, too. If I had a buck for every time a street vendor tried to sell me a purse, I could afford to buy a genuine Louis Vitton handbag.

/Carries a purse from Walmart.

Really, if someone wants a fake, they'll knowingly buy it for 10% of the price of the real McCoy and be happy with it knowing it's a fake. If these seizures take all of the fakes off the market, do the legit manufacturers believe that the people buying the counterfeit items will actually switch to their ridiculously overpriced merchandise?

"Well Lurleen, I can't get that $22 Rolex anymore, so I'm a-stuck and I'm-a-gunna have to buy the $8000 one instead."

"Aw Cleetus! Are we still gonna be able to afford the double-wide?"

"Yuh shouldn't of married a man with such discriminatin' tastes, baby."