I call bullshiat unless this farker is the one that always seems to be driving 30 in a 45 or 45 in a 65 (where everyone drives 80). More than likely he fixed everything in his car that was screwing up his MPG (changed filters, oil change, inflated nearly flat tired, etc) and changed from always redlining to driving in a higher gear than he should be in and doing it slow enough to make people wonder why cops never pull over people for driving dangerously slow.

So this idiot turns off his engine while the car is in motion. Presumably he doesn't mind the lack of power assist on brakes and steering, not to mention that unfortunate effect when the steering lock cuts in.

what is the relationship between revs and consumption while driving at a constant speed?

HYPERMILERS ARE GIANT DOUCHE'S.

/expect road range incidents to increase.
//rant off

just hand over the banana or the monkey gets it

So is this the actual, engineer approved speedlimit or the avg 10 mph under that the government posts to get our money subby?

When your positive action affects others in a negative way, it's no longer positive. Moving to the right lane is small consolation. Drivers have a duty to get out of the way - or move to Fla.

Eh, I'd say some of the techniques aren't a bad idea, like taking your foot off the gas and just letting momentum carry you up to a red light. Trying to stay at the speed limit is also not a bad idea as long as you aren't interfering with the flow of traffic.

You don't have to be obsessive about the whole thing... just think about the way you're driving and whenever possible, use techniques that allow you to save a bit of gas here and there. It may not make as much difference to you as to people who get crazy about it and try to set personal bests and crap, but the visibility of this kinda thing may encourage people to think about the way they drive a bit more. Which is probably a good thing.

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute:

Here you go: this will help you with your problem.

seminole87: You could just move to florida, most of the elderly drive like that here.

Nuh uh. Last time I was in St. Pete is was like a third world cab ride; except that the mess was from very large detroit steel apparently being commandeered by sets of knuckles and tufts of grey hair faintly showing over steering wheels - with lead feet.

dennis2society: When your positive action affects others in a negative way, it's no longer positive. Moving to the right lane is small consolation. Drivers have a duty to get out of the way - or move to Fla.

While I agree these people have a duty to get out of the way, driving the speed limit should hardly be considered a bane to society.

We all have to do what we can to save gas for the next few years until the price of gas comes back down.

Wait, what?

12.fl.oz.: FTA: Gerdes, who does not visit the gas pumps as often as the rest of us, admits that shutting the engine off while moving might be illegal in some jurisdictions, but he says it shouldn't be.

He points to the fact that the Prius and other full hybrid vehicles do the same thing automatically.

I think the Prius and other hybrids were designed to do this.

This. He'll be going through starter motors like shiat through a goose.

elysive: dennis2society: When your positive action affects others in a negative way, it's no longer positive. Moving to the right lane is small consolation. Drivers have a duty to get out of the way - or move to Fla.

While I agree these people have a duty to get out of the way, driving the speed limit should hardly be considered a bane to society.

Maybe. Depends on the circumstances and degree. Examples: driving speed limit in fast lane; small town speed limits set excessively slow; hypermiler doing his thing as motorists stack up behind him.

I drive the speed limit all the time, but I don't think it helps my mileage much since most of my driving is in town. I could get better mileage if I didn't stop for red lights and stop signs, but the police are such spoil sports.

The guy who increased his gas mileage by driving within the speed limit and using his engine when needed should deserve a hero tag.

then 9/11 happened," Gerdes said.
No longer willing to pour as much money into Mideast oil,

So he believes oil money funds terrorism and he's OK with that just so long as he only funds terrorism half as much as he used to.

Robo Beat: ...like shiat through a goose.


Can I borrow that?
Quid pro quo, I offer this purloined jewel: slower than a pound of cheddar thru Grandpa's colon

I like the part where they suggest that you inflate you tires to MAXIMUM pressure. That in itself is just a horribly dangerous idea.

why not just pop the trans in to neutral and take your foot off the gas ?
little safer and saner than shutting of and restarting the engine all the time.
/i do shut engine off at long lights, train crossings
//drive at the speed limit does help.
/// short shifting seams to help a little.

I drive the speed limit in the right lane of I-25 through Denver every day during my commute. It helps my gas mileage tremendously, and allows me to arrive at work feeling refreshed, instead of harried and stressed.

So far, I've not really encountered too many people who become unreasonably upset that I'm doing the speed limit. Since there are typically 4 other lanes that I'm not in, the other drivers have an abundance of choices if they wish to pass me. Sure, I've received the occasional cut-off, hand gesture, ugly look, or incoherent shouting, but by and large, everyone seems calm enough.

I find it amusing that people who, you know, obey the law while driving are on the receiving end of such anger and scorn. Of course, I realize that most of the people who'll post about this issue are in their late teens to early 20's, and drive like bats out of hell. Hey, I was there once myself, too. Took about 15 years' worth of speeding tickets, higher fuel costs, and increased wear and tear on my cars before I put 2 + 2 together and started driving sanely.

Scrophulous Barking Duck: I drive the speed limit all the time, but I don't think it helps my mileage much since most of my driving is in town. I could get better mileage if I didn't stop for red lights and stop signs, but the police are such spoil sports.

I knew a guy who calculated that given the likelihood of being pulled over for merely slowing through stop signs and how much gas he saved by doing so, it was more economical to just slow through them.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested using the cruise control whenever possible. It it quite an efficient little device.

He'll spend FAR more on starters & fuel/ignition components than he'll save on fuel, plus adding 500 miles of wear to his engine EVERY time he starts it. No oil pressure = 500 miles of bearing wear at startup (source - how to make your car last forever). Bearing wear means an expensive rebuild because you have no oil pressure and your engine is making onimous thunking sounds.

Tillmaster: So this idiot turns off his engine while the car is in motion. Presumably he doesn't mind the lack of power assist on brakes and steering, not to mention that unfortunate effect when the steering lock cuts in.

THIS.

Guy in the article needs to be kicked in the testicles so hard he throws up. I don't want to be near this asshat- not because he's going to be going slower than me, but because he is a farking menace.

Fail:
Startup enriches the mixture, even on hot start, and revs the engine for a variable amount of time, based on engine temp. I'm all for shutting off the engine while parking, but shutting off the engine at any time that you need to move is illegal and stupid. I drive stick, and I often coast in neutral- particularly to stops or if I'm downhill in traffic. But the engine stays on so I can still use my brakes and steer.

More fail:
Filling the tires to max sidewall pressure is a great idea for getting maxiumum mileage, but not for getting adequate traction. I'd rather my tires stick to the road than save a buck or two per fill. You see, when you inflate the tires to max sidewall pressure, you make the contact patch of the tire smaller. Obviously this decreases rolling resistance, but at a cost of traction- worse yet in the rain.

Epic fail:
Unless he's figured out a way to get non-terrorist gas, he's merely being less supportive of terrorists. If he really doesn't want to support terrorism, he should switch to diesel and become friends with his local restaurants.

To recap: subject of article has been added to my list of people in dire need of a royal cockpunching.

The only way to get 48 miles per gallon out of a Honda Accord, is by pushing it off a cliff. Starting the engine is optional.

Travis McGee: Took about 15 years' worth of speeding tickets, ... before I put 2 + 2 together and started driving sanely.

If you're getting a speeding ticket in any metropolitan area, then you're probably doing something wrong besides speeding. I drove for 5 years in So Cal before I moved to Boston for grad school (in general, I just don't drive now) and I've never received a speeding ticket besides almost always going 10-20 mph above the speed limit.

YixilTesiphon: Scrophulous Barking Duck: I drive the speed limit all the time, but I don't think it helps my mileage much since most of my driving is in town. I could get better mileage if I didn't stop for red lights and stop signs, but the police are such spoil sports.

I knew a guy who calculated that given the likelihood of being pulled over for merely slowing through stop signs and how much gas he saved by doing so, it was more economical to just slow through them.

Rolling stops should be legal at certain intersections. Something between "Yeild" and "Stop." "Easy" or "Watchit" might work. Ever notice how cops can get hyper-offended at rolling stops, like you're thumbing your nose at all that's decent?

To add to my post: dealership once made the mistake of "topping off" my wife's car's tires to max sidewall pressure (45 PSI). The car handed horrendously (it was raining) until I got it home. The service manager got a reaming over the phone for his flunkie's mistake.

As far as starting oil pressures are concerned- this is less of an issue on hot starts. Oil pressure builds up rapidly- cranking the engine alone will get an adequate amount of oil to the top end during the slow turning at start, and full pressure is achieved VERY quickly.

Frequent starts before the oil (not the engine coolant) is at operating temperature (250-300 degrees, give or take) is indeed bad for the engine.

It kills me the shortsightedness of people to save money on gas. Someone asked me if I was thinking about replacing my VW Passat because of its fuel efficiency (I average 24mpg with my V6, which takes premium) and I said:

"The car is paid for. Why on earth would I get rid of this car, take on a monthly payment of $400-500, so I can save $80 a month on gas? What a stupid idea."

YixilTesiphon: I knew a guy who calculated that given the likelihood of being pulled over for merely slowing through stop signs and how much gas he saved by doing so, it was more economical to just slow through them.

The police are everywhere around here. I almost never go out without seeing the police and once got a ticket for only slowing to two mph at a stop sign. I'll stick with stopping at lights and stop signs. Besides, I don't think getting killed running a light would be good for my health.

Or get one of these. It'll show you real-time mileage for your car, as well as a bunch of other handy real-time info. Let's you compare mileage attained from multiple trips, showing how different driving habits or using different gas brands can improve your mileage.

dennis2society: YixilTesiphon: Scrophulous Barking Duck: I drive the speed limit all the time, but I don't think it helps my mileage much since most of my driving is in town. I could get better mileage if I didn't stop for red lights and stop signs, but the police are such spoil sports.

I knew a guy who calculated that given the likelihood of being pulled over for merely slowing through stop signs and how much gas he saved by doing so, it was more economical to just slow through them.

Rolling stops should be legal at certain intersections. Something between "Yeild" and "Stop." "Easy" or "Watchit" might work. Ever notice how cops can get hyper-offended at rolling stops, like you're thumbing your nose at all that's decent?

I doubt that a lot of people would be able to figure them out, but you guys should build more roundabouts (rotaries, if you're from Mass). With those, you get better flow of traffic as opposed to a four-way stop, and you can go right into the circle unless there's already someone coming. It takes up a bit more space, but I think that they generally work better.

Of course, this is coming from a driver's perspective - I'm an English teacher, not a highway engineer, so there you go.

Scrophulous Barking Duck: YixilTesiphon: I knew a guy who calculated that given the likelihood of being pulled over for merely slowing through stop signs and how much gas he saved by doing so, it was more economical to just slow through them.

The police are everywhere around here. I almost never go out without seeing the police and once got a ticket for only slowing to two mph at a stop sign. I'll stick with stopping at lights and stop signs. Besides, I don't think getting killed running a light would be good for my health.

.


I received a ticket for rolling through a stop sign a few months back. The fine and traffic school cost $235, about the same as a tank of gas.

Citing hybrids which are designed to do this sort of thing automatically is intellectually-dishonest. If he wants to pull this sort of shiat and do it legally, he should just buy himself a hybrid. They're designed to do what he's cajoling his vehicle into doing.

Incidentally, you also save a ton of money on routine maintenance with a hybrid over that of a regular vehicle due mainly to regenerative braking -- the car doesn't use the regular anti-lock brakes unless regenerative braking won't cut it, like for sudden stops, or when the battery is completely full. Oil lasts longer (use of synthetics is pretty much mandatory) requiring fewer oil changes and most hybrids sacrifice low-end torque (and most of the gas wasted on that) on the engine's part to be made up from the electric assist.

But you all knew this already.

I try and get better mileage by:
1. Avoiding unnecessary use of brakes, mostly leaving enough gap and anticipating traffic well enough that just letting off the gas now and then is all I need to do. I also try to coast to a stop rather than race to a red just to brake.
2. Doing proper ordinary maintenance.
3. Shifting to higher gears quickly.
4. Going with the flow instead of trying to get in front ( as a youth I was a mad rabbit but I outgrew it )

I'm a cheapskate not a hyper-miler, the guy in the article is just as type A as he always was he's just running a different race now.
Wearing out/damaging your car is not a smart way to save money.

to me saving money means:
1,2 and 3 : drive defensively - farking insurance cartel are bad enough with a clean record.
4: take care of your car - they are expensive to repair
5. don't waste gas stupidly

Writing about how driving at lower RPMs reduces fuel consumption is not a new concept, exxon (or was it mobile before they merged?) used to give away facts like this in the 90s on how to reduce fuel consumption, they had like 10 tips, such as dont accelerate quickly when the light goes green, dont slam the brakes on when you get to a red light (gradually stop), etc.

Of course driving the speed limit may REDUCE milage in some vehicles, it depends on the specific vehicle, its engine, gear ratios, etc and the speed limit in question. My jeep for example hated doing 55, it would have higher rpms (or an inability to accelerate if I were in a higher gear, and acceleration can be useful, such as when someone is closing on the rear of your vehicle and you dont want to get hit, or you have to pass something on the side of the road that is half in the lane and there is traffic coming in the other lane). Regardless, 45 or 65 were the lower rpm points on that particular vehicle, and doing 55 would reduce fuel efficiency.

There are several off the shelf things that you can do, although some are not acceptable to all. For example your car does not run on fuel alone, it requires air for the combustion. Replacing the air intake and exhaust can take less power to pump air in/out of the engine, allowing lower rpms at the same speed. This however results in a somewhat louder vehicle, and many may not like that. It was still compliant with california emissions, which has robbed some power off my vehicle, resulting in higher fuel consumption at the same speeds.

There are also things like a "helical spacer" which is only available for some models (although a machine shop can make them, they are just milled blocks of metal) which aides in compression (I noticed a 2-3% increase in mpg just from that, and coincidentally 2-3% more power in my vehicle). There are several other things that detroit could do to improve power and lower fuel consumption, but they dont.

Some of its political (such as the YJ jeep wranglers, they put an air restriction system in the intake specifically to drop the horsepower by 15% because the cherokee and wrangler used the same engine but the weights are dramatically different - removing it gives you 15% more hp, which means at the same speeds you generally use less fuel). Some of its cost (there is a demand to make cars cheaper, adding in some extras can add to that cost). Some of it is marketing reasons (its hard to sell a louder car when its supposed to be a nice family car to many people).

Oh and for those that would attack me simply because I drove a jeep, um well get over it. I lived in a rural area which didnt have paved roads everywhere, I also was on the fire and paramedic departments and being able to get to where people are was a real bonus. These are the groups that are often neglected in the "dont drive a SUV" campaigns, people who live in cities tend to think everyone does and that farmers (like my neighbors) dont need trucks. They still want the crops grown, food delivered, and all that but want to take away the tools to do those very things.

Out where I live, you can increase your mileage by doing the speed limit. Until some irate driver blows your head off.

/Driving penises swing big out here.
/
/
/THANK YOU ohnonotfloridaagain FOR MY MONTH OF TOTAL FARK!!!!
/THINK OF THE GREAT DEBATES AND INTELLIGENT DISCOURSE MY POSTS WILL ENABLE
/MY Boobies SHALL BE "MAN STUCK IN BATHTUB; WIFE STUCK ON TOILET; DAUGHTER STUCK ON COMPUTER"

12.fl.oz.: FTA: Gerdes, who does not visit the gas pumps as often as the rest of us, admits that shutting the engine off while moving might be illegal in some jurisdictions, but he says it shouldn't be.

He points to the fact that the Prius and other full hybrid vehicles do the same thing automatically.

I think the Prius and other hybrids were designed to do this.

Well they dont shut off propulsion, just the engine when it doesnt need the power boost. That is a good thing, it should be illegal to have a car where you loose things like power brakes, power steering, etc while driving down the road. It should be illegal to not have the power to merge into traffic if there is an obstruction you couldnt see until you are right on it and there isnt time or room to brake (bend in the road, traffic everywhere you couldnt see through the metal bodies of cars, etc). There is a real safety issue with disabling propulsion.

At least hybrids start up without having to pay attention to the key, then shift out of neutral into gear, etc. For that reason alone they are safer when the engine does disengage while driving.

Tillmaster: So this idiot turns off his engine while the car is in motion. Presumably he doesn't mind the lack of power assist on brakes and steering, not to mention that unfortunate effect when the steering lock cuts in.

if the car is in neutral (which it has to be or it will come to a more abrupt stop when shutting the engine off) you typically cant lock the steering column (or turn the key to "lock"). Some you can, particularly the ones that have an "on the floor shifter", but that is becoming more rare.

Turning the *propulsion* off while moving is dangerous (see above posts by me) and should be illegal for those reasons alone. This is why hybrids may shut off the fuel engine but you still have propulsion from the electric side.

It's true. By driving like an old man, I've been consistently averaging 21mpg with my big Grand Marquis.

pyrion: Citing hybrids which are designed to do this sort of thing automatically is intellectually-dishonest. If he wants to pull this sort of shiat and do it legally, he should just buy himself a hybrid. They're designed to do what he's cajoling his vehicle into doing.

Incidentally, you also save a ton of money on routine maintenance with a hybrid over that of a regular vehicle due mainly to regenerative braking -- the car doesn't use the regular anti-lock brakes unless regenerative braking won't cut it, like for sudden stops, or when the battery is completely full. Oil lasts longer (use of synthetics is pretty much mandatory) requiring fewer oil changes and most hybrids sacrifice low-end torque (and most of the gas wasted on that) on the engine's part to be made up from the electric assist.

But you all knew this already.

.
You fail to mention the $3k it cost to replace the battery pack.

dennis2society:
While I agree these people have a duty to get out of the way, driving the speed limit should hardly be considered a bane to society.

Maybe. Depends on the circumstances and degree. Examples: driving speed limit in fast lane; small town speed limits set excessively slow; hypermiler doing his thing as motorists stack up behind him.

In several states, although rarely enforced, it is illegal to let cars stack up behind you. If you are unwilling or unable to go the speed limit and there are more than X cars (usually in the 3-5 range) behind you, you are required to pull over and let them pass. One lane road? No problem pull off to the shoulder. No shoulder? No problem drive into the ditch at the side of the road and make everyone happy.

I know that NJ and California both have such laws, why California used to have a minimum speed limit on its freeways, until traffic got so bad that was stupid since no one was able to drive the minimum limit. Take the 405 (only an interstate to get federal tax dollars to pay for it, its just LA county) it is 6 lanes in each direction and often a parking lot for miles. Wouldnt it be more fuel efficient to not use 25 year ago standards when determining traffic capacity? Yeah the standards on capacity really are 25 years out of sync in california and all the plans are to bring them to "current" and nothing for the future. Hey its "free" money (free as in someone else paid for it) from the feds right? Why not suck up as much as possible.

Psychotropic: then 9/11 happened," Gerdes said.
No longer willing to pour as much money into Mideast oil,

So he believes oil money funds terrorism and he's OK with that just so long as he only funds terrorism half as much as he used to.

I wonder if he smokes pot, cause we all know that pot funds terrorism (so does piracy, at least according to microsoft).

trixter_nl: dennis2society:
While I agree these people have a duty to get out of the way, driving the speed limit should hardly be considered a bane to society.

Maybe. Depends on the circumstances and degree. Examples: driving speed limit in fast lane; small town speed limits set excessively slow; hypermiler doing his thing as motorists stack up behind him.

In several states, although rarely enforced, it is illegal to let cars stack up behind you. If you are unwilling or unable to go the speed limit and there are more than X cars (usually in the 3-5 range) behind you, you are required to pull over and let them pass...

That's a great law. I just got too busy to spew about the nation's drivers, so, until next thread....

Link

/Full of Smug

Robo Beat: I doubt that a lot of people would be able to figure them out, but you guys should build more roundabouts

Not only no, but HELL NO. Roundabouts are good for:

Places that are too poor/cheap to install lights and time them correctly.

Places with low traffic/low speeds.

The problem with roundabouts is that they give all traffic equal priority. Heavy traffic bring them to their knees as everyone tries to get into the roundabout.

This person did a good writeup. Link (new window)

Traffic circles are fine, in theory. Normal street or road intersections require some form of traffic control where cars are often forced to come to a complete halt before making a turn or continuing straight ahead. But a traffic circle, if traffic is very light, allows a car to keep rolling into the circle and around to its exit point. In theory (again), this can mean no wasted time and fuel while waiting for a stoplight to change --....

....Regardless of location, all are subject to the Iron Law of Traffic Circles: heavy traffic will bring them to their knees. I've noticed in England that some roundabouts in congested areas now have traffic signals, so entry to the circle is in pulses controlled by the lights. In New Jersey massive post-World War 2 suburbanization from New York City and Philadelphia so overloaded the circles that the state was turning them into normal stoplight-controlled or cloverleaf intersections by the 1980s.

The new (in the last four years or so) traffic circles where I live are being built on moderately busy, multi-lane streets. I have strong doubts that their construction was wise.

Setting aside any tiny environmental advantages, traffic circles create driving conditions that are inherently more ambiguous than those found in traffic-light controlled intersections. For instance, a driver planning to exit more than a quarter of the way around the circle is supposed to place his car in a middle or interior lane and then drift back to the outside for exiting. But not all drivers can or will do this. So if you see a car in the outside lane of the circle approaching your street but not signaling, you cannot be certain whether or not he will be exiting there. So you wait a couple seconds longer until his intention is clear. And if you misjudge his intention and enter when he isn't about to exit, there could well be a crash.

I'll take a traffic light over this mess any day.



Not to mention, many roundabouts in the UK now have lights at them to limit the number of cars entering. Thus defeating the whole purpose of having them.

Using roundabouts is like having an orchestra without a conductor. As long as everyone is on the ball and works together, it works great. The reality is that someone will be either too fast or too slow, get distracted, or otherwise get out of time, screwing up the whole system. Such a system only works if the group is very small and going at lower speeds.

dennis2society: trixter_nl: dennis2society:
While I agree these people have a duty to get out of the way, driving the speed limit should hardly be considered a bane to society.

Maybe. Depends on the circumstances and degree. Examples: driving speed limit in fast lane; small town speed limits set excessively slow; hypermiler doing his thing as motorists stack up behind him.

In several states, although rarely enforced, it is illegal to let cars stack up behind you. If you are unwilling or unable to go the speed limit and there are more than X cars (usually in the 3-5 range) behind you, you are required to pull over and let them pass...

That's a great law. I just got too busy to spew about the nation's drivers, so, until next thread....

The problem arises when you DOING THE SPEED LIMIT and idiots that want to go 15 or 20 MPH stack up behind you.

TheShavingofOccam123: The problem arises when you DOING THE SPEED LIMIT and idiots that want to go 15 or 20 MPH stack up behind you.

So let them pass and it is no longer your problem. I've done it before, it's not hard.