And the first order of business for the Dem's is to expire those, now pay up.

If you live in a country you should do your part to pay fir the running of said country. If more people paid their share of taxes they might give a shiat when some dumbass president starts a trillion dollar war he can't pay for or congress decides to mail everyone "free money" to stimulate the economy.

Gwendolyn: ... to mail everyone "free money" to stimulate the economy Chinese.

ftfy

Most people will run over to Walmart.

Is it because they fall below the minimum income?

I just love articles that beat you to death with out-of-context statistics, and then have the gall to say, What does this all mean? Whereupon they hit you with their agenda.

GaryPDX: Most people will run over to Walmart.

Most people can't afford the gas to drive there.

Okay maybe not most, but a lot.

oldebayer: I just love articles that beat you to death with out-of-context statistics, and then have the gall to say, What does this all mean? Whereupon they hit you with their agenda.

I'm too tired to figure out if this really means there are a lot more lower-income households.

kmmontandon: Is it because they fall below the minimum income?

No..most Liberals believe Bush's tax cuts went directly into his rich oil friends pockets and everyone else got ZERO. I make less than 100k a year and it's going to hit me real hard, just like everyone else in your neighborhood. So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!

I think Obama's right. 70% income tax for all!!!

oldebayer: I just love articles that beat you to death with out-of-context statistics, and then have the gall to say, What does this all mean? Whereupon they hit you with their agenda.

This, that or whatever meme is accepted this farking week.

Gwendolyn: congress decides to mail everyone "free money" to stimulate the economy.

Yet Obama says he will give each taxpaying family $1000 if he is elected. Sounds like he is paying for votes, although even that will be nowhere near enough to get him elected.

GaryPDX: kmmontandon: Is it because they fall below the minimum income?

No..most Liberals believe Bush's tax cuts went directly into his rich oil friends pockets and everyone else got ZERO. /i>

I don't believe this, but the tax cuts were presented in a very disingenuous fashion. They just didn't do a whole hell of a lot for low- and middle- class people, except getting rid of the marriage penalty.

And capital gains tax cuts are targeted at the rich, period, and never mind the "averages." After all, if you gave Bill Gates a twenty million dollar tax cut, and me a one dollar tax cut, it averages to about ten million for each of us.

GaryPDX: No..most Liberals believe Bush's tax cuts went directly into his rich oil friends pockets and everyone else got ZERO. I make less than 100k a year and it's going to hit me real hard, just like everyone else in your neighborhood. So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

Right, because we were all doomed before Bush's tax cuts.

Gwendolyn: "free money" to stimulate the economy.

I stimulated the economy with beer, iTunes, and some new wheels for my car.

I should've paid bills.

GaryPDX: So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!


Tax cuts at the expense of deficit spending, IS and has been a total economic disaster.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution for this problem. Increasing taxes will cause a serious down turn in the economy.

Not increasing taxes and continuing deficit spending will result in a complete financial collapse when the government eventually becomes insolvent.

The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

If the price of gas going from $2 to $4 a gallon cripples you, you aren't doing it right.

fark 'em. If I'm going to get nailed by the AMT because the Dems refuse to fix it, then fark 'em. Everybody pays their fair share, right?

supichoo: If the price of gas going from $2 to $4 a gallon cripples you, you aren't doing it right.

It's not the gas for your car, it's the effect it has on everything you buy that had to be transported. Everything from bread to toilet paper will go up in price.

Con_Authority: The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

Whomever inherits the White House is farked. There is no fixing this without an increase in taxes and cutting the federal budget to the bone. You're not getting reelected to a second term in office doing that.

Gwendolyn: Whomever inherits the White House is farked. There is no fixing this without an increase in taxes and cutting the federal budget to the bone. You're not getting reelected to a second term in office doing that.

I think you are probably right about this. Add to that the baby boomers retiring, and I'd prefer the Democrats be holding the bag when all those birds come home to roost. The Republicans will regain the House and Senate in '08, and Bobby Jindal will knock Obama out of the White House in a landslide. Book it. Done.

Gwendolyn: Con_Authority: The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

Whomever inherits the White House is farked. There is no fixing this without an increase in taxes and cutting the federal budget to the bone. You're not getting reelected to a second term in office doing that.

How about deep budget cuts that funnel the money into basic research that will create new industries and grow the economy?

wyohome: Yet Obama says he will give each taxpaying family $1000 if he is elected. Sounds like he is paying for votes, although even that will be nowhere near enough to get him elected.

Really? I hadn't heard that. I don't suppose you have a source handy?

11 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS?!?!?
Assume each household has 3 people. That means 33 million MORE people than before are paying no income taxes, around 15% of our country's population.

I find that very hard to believe, and if true, then where is all of our insane spending paid for? The money has to come from somewhere, and it ain't the rich.

The bite is always on the middle class in this type of tax system. It further divides America into two classes: rich and poor.

"I'd prefer the Democrats be holding the bag when all those birds come home to roost."

Yet you'd reelect the GOP who caused the problem in the first place. You must have brain damage. You've got to be really amoral to brag about the wrong people taking the blame.
Oops, yeah, you are republican, aren't you.

GaryPDX: And the first order of business for the Dem's is to expire those, now pay up.

And that's exactly the opposite of true.

The Dems want to roll back the tax cuts on top earners, not "lower-income households." Whether or not one sees that as a good thing is great to discuss, but what you stated is false.

Because People in power are Stupid
The bite is always on the middle class in this type of tax system. It further divides America into two classes: rich and poor.

Do the "middle class" fall into the "rich", or the "poor" category?

/and what about those of us who are just "low class"?

Nabb1: I think you are probably right about this. Add to that the baby boomers retiring, and I'd prefer the Democrats be holding the bag when all those birds come home to roost. The Republicans will regain the House and Senate in '08, and Bobby Jindal will knock Obama out of the White House in a landslide.

So they can then resume raising more birds? THAT WILL BE GREAT.

This Is Bold Text: Assume each household has 3 people.

Why would we assume that?

meanwhile the costs of everyday essentials has doubled or tripled

oldebayer: I just love articles that beat you to death with out-of-context statistics, and then have the gall to say, What does this all mean? Whereupon they hit you with their agenda.

Yeah, I was going to say this, but... yeah..

/Well said.

Con_Authority: GaryPDX: So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!


Tax cuts at the expense of deficit spending, IS and has been a total economic disaster.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution for this problem. Increasing taxes will cause a serious down turn in the economy.

Not increasing taxes and continuing deficit spending will result in a complete financial collapse when the government eventually becomes insolvent.

The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

Actually, no. Taxes going up in a depression could have a positive effect, if done correctly.

See, the gov't can only stimulate the economy directly via one of two ways: Either lower the federal interest rate, which increases inflation, or increase domestic spending to create jobs, which means bigger budgets.

In case you haven't noticed, they've been hiking the interest rates through the roof, mainly because idiot conservatives in D.C. don't want to face the truth: They need government spending to stimulate the economy.

Problem is, previous prez's, such as FDR and Reagan, did this through increasing the debt, which was supposed to be paid off when good times rolled around again.

But we've increased the debt during the good times, and can't do that now in the bad.

So there's only one option: the gov't has to spend money on domestic projects to create local jobs.

And that means higher taxes.

Now, republicans, shut the fark up. You rich assholes got us into this mess, and your wallets are going to get us out.

Mastervader:

I meant cutting the interest rates.

GaryPDX: I make less than 100k a year and it's going to hit me real hard, just like everyone else in your neighborhood.

cry me a farking river. learn to farking save and pay your god damn tax increase just like I have to pay 18% more every year for my health insurance.

I'm so farking sick of people making 80-150k biatching about farking taxes. You can afford it. Suck it the fark up and pay your share.

I know GaryPDX has been posting since forever but I don't remember him such a POS before this year.

Christ, Fark sucks now because it's been hijacked by conservative retards. MY TAXES!!!111!!11

Nabb1: fark 'em. If I'm going to get nailed by the AMT because the Dems refuse to fix it, then fark 'em. Everybody pays their fair share, right?

You might want to look again. The GOPers are the ones blocking AMT reform. The Dems are for it.

Nabb1: get nailed by the AMT because the Dems refuse to fix it

who controlled congress AND the white house for how many years again?

This Is Bold Text: 11 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS?!?!?
Assume each household has 3 people. That means 33 million MORE people than before are paying no income taxes, around 15% of our country's population.

I find that very hard to believe, and if true, then where is all of our insane spending paid for? The money has to come from somewhere, and it ain't the rich.

As far as the Personal Income Tax goes, yes the rich pay the overwhelming majority of it. Top 50% pay 95% of the income tax and the top 10% pay 50% of the income tax. Its called Progressive Taxation (new window)

The next largest source of revenue are the payroll taxes, whose surplus funds are irresponsibly spent in the general fund, which is leading to the pending insolvency of Social Security and Medicare. These programs will become abysmal failures within my lifetime; there is no way to sugarcoat it. The benefits will be slashed like a teenager in a bad horror movie, the taxes will be jacked up like Barry Bonds, and the dollar will go the way of the Zimbabwe Dollar/Argentine Peso/Papiermark. Strap yourselves in boys and girls.

Breakdown of tax source:

Mastervader: Con_Authority: GaryPDX: So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!


Tax cuts at the expense of deficit spending, IS and has been a total economic disaster.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution for this problem. Increasing taxes will cause a serious down turn in the economy.

Not increasing taxes and continuing deficit spending will result in a complete financial collapse when the government eventually becomes insolvent.

The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

Actually, no. Taxes going up in a depression could have a positive effect, if done correctly.

See, the gov't can only stimulate the economy directly via one of two ways: Either lower the federal interest rate, which increases inflation, or increase domestic spending to create jobs, which means bigger budgets.

In case you haven't noticed, they've been hiking the interest rates through the roof, mainly because idiot conservatives in D.C. don't want to face the truth: They need government spending to stimulate the economy.

Problem is, previous prez's, such as FDR and Reagan, did this through increasing the debt, which was supposed to be paid off when good times rolled around again.

But we've increased the debt during the good times, and can't do that now in the bad.

So there's only one option: the gov't has to spend money on domestic projects to create local jobs.

And that means higher taxes.

Now, republicans, shut the fark up. You rich assholes got us into this mess, and your wallets are going to get us out.

Negative Ghostrider, your quasi-Keynesian economic prescription was tried once before. (new window)

"CONCLUSION: THE LESSONS
OF MR. HOOVER'S RECORD
Mr. Hoover met the challenge of the Great Depression by acting
quickly and decisively, indeed almost continuously throughout
his term of office, putting into effect "the greatest program of
offense and defense" against depression ever attempted in America.
Bravely he used every modern economic "tool," every device of progressive
and "enlightened" economics, every facet of government
planning, to combat the depression. For the first time, laissez-faire
was boldly thrown overboard and every governmental weapon
thrown into the breach. America had awakened, and was now
ready to use the State to the hilt, unhampered by the supposed
shibboleths of laissez-faire. President Hoover was a bold and audacious
leader in this awakening. By every "progressive" tenet of our
day, he should have ended his term a conquering hero; instead he
left America in utter and complete ruin-a ruin unprecedented in
length and intensity.

What was the trouble? Economic theory demonstrates that
only governmental inflation can generate a boom-and-bust cycle,
and that the depression will be prolonged and aggravated by inflationist
and other interventionary measures. In contrast to the myth
of laissez-faire, we have shown in this book how government intervention
generated the unsound boom of the 1920s, and how
Hoover's new departure aggravated the Great Depression by massive
measures of interference. The guilt for the Great Depression
must, at long last, be lifted from the shoulders of the free-market
economy, and placed where it properly belongs: at the doors of
politicians, bureaucrats, and the mass of "enlightened" economists.
And in any other depression, past or future, the story will be the
same."
p.336-337

Just like Benjamin Strong/Daniel Crissinger in the 1920s, Alan Greenspan's interventionist inflation ushered in the twin booms from 1995-2005. We have now transitioned out of that second boom. The questions are, will the Government make the same mistakes as the Hoover and Roosevelt Administrations? Will Ben Bernanke, unhampered by the gold standard and with the unlimited money creation power inherent in fiat money, act more irresponsibly than the Meyer/Black FED?

Call me a pessimist.

GaryPDX: kmmontandon: Is it because they fall below the minimum income?

No..most Liberals believe Bush's tax cuts went directly into his rich oil friends pockets and everyone else got ZERO. I make less than 100k a year and it's going to hit me real hard, just like everyone else in your neighborhood. So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!

The piper must be paid. We could have paid as we went along, now we get to pay plus the interest.

Im not too sure abour this. I mean with gas up to 4 bucks a gallon and food prices climbing because of it i dont think they feel shiat.

SphericalTime: Really? I hadn't heard that. I don't suppose you have a source handy?

I think it's a reference to this (new window)(at the end of the vid)

Great! Now match those tax cuts with some spending cuts. Starting with the biggest welfare program in history: Mr. Bush's War.

Publicans are quite all right with government handouts, as long as they go to those who least need them.

GaryPDX: kmmontandon: Is it because they fall below the minimum income?

No..most Liberals believe Bush's tax cuts went directly into his rich oil friends pockets and everyone else got ZERO. I make less than 100k a year and it's going to hit me real hard, just like everyone else in your neighborhood. So..electing a Dem in November means huge instant tax increases for everyone and that's BEFORE they stack on all the free stuff.

So get ready, it will be a glorious utopia full of puppies, rainbows and hope!!!

Most liberals (like most everyone in the country) are uneducated sheep listening to any source the reinforces whatever petty beliefs they may hold dear despite the source. Most Total Farkers are this way as well.

The Boston Globe of all newspapers would actually run such an article. Does it really mean to suggest that the Bush tax cuts were not a break only for the wealthy, but lower income Americans got a break too?

Interesting to note that the article suggests that most only paid 13 point something in income taxes - after credits and deductions, I presume. Ok, for those of us who make enough to not qualify for the rebate, I can tell you that our effective tax rates are much higher (closer to 25% federal income tax plus another 6% in property taxes) as the credits are phased out etc. The only thing that keeps my income tax manageable are the interest and property tax deductibles. Yeah, yeah, pay higher mortgage to avoid reduce income tax is questionable logic, but its a nice house.

Kind of makes the Obama/Clinton class warfare platform a bit disengenuous. I expect that from both sides though.

Anyway, always happy to finance other people's bad decisions and life choices.

That's so meaningful. Thank you pointlessmitter.

Gwendolyn: Con_Authority: The only possible answer are tremendous cuts in government spending, things like cutting military spending in half or more, deep cuts in Social Security spending. This will prevent a financial collapse but it will also cause a deep recession or a depression.

Whomever inherits the White House is farked. There is no fixing this without an increase in taxes and cutting the federal budget to the bone. You're not getting reelected to a second term in office doing that.

Funny because every economic indicator I have been reading is predicting a huge rebound after one quarter of lower economic growth. Most of you believe what ever talking heads tell you without getting actual facts or you just ignore them if it makes people you hate look good.

Fact: half of the Bush tax-cuts effect ONLY people making over a million dollars.

Law of averages says the other half are not all lower income folks. God knows I didn't get a tax cut, nor did anyone in my family, and were pretty average. If anything, taxes went up.

why pay income tax when the government can't even spend it correctly? Furthermore why pay an income tax to a government who stomps all over your constitutional rights?

It's like everyone has battered tax payer syndrome.

In constance dollars, the Minimum wage was ~12% lower in 2005 then it was in 2000. I am therefore shocked to find that more people working low income jobs that fall at or are at least affected by state or federal minimum wage laws now fall below the threshold for taxable income. It's almost as if those same wages were worth less now than they were at the end of the Clinton presidency.