I don't know if this is subbed to get it the attention that it needs. This guy is getting seriously farked...

If his gun can't be MADE to misfire, I don't see how they can prosecute him for having a "machine gun", and send him to prison.

/where are the riots?

I'm finding it difficult to comment on this without degenerating into an obscenity spewing tirade. I don't care what your political bent is, this should simultaneously piss you off and scare the shiat out of you.

With the information presented, this is clearly a miscarriage of justice.

Anyone with knowledge of the case is welcome to set us straight; otherwise the Wisconsin D.A. has a serious problem headed his way.

Conviction won't hold.

Dancin_In_Anson: Conviction won't hold.

If so, what about his property, the damage to his home, the expense of defending himself, his loss of pension, his discharge from the military...

"the swat team was fully armed"

Hey stupids, when you ignore police behavior against the poor and minorities for decades, don't be surprised when you're next. Morons.

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I guess there really is nothing to see here.

/no reason to bother installing flash...

just another gun nut for ya

Pick up that can

\Really need to replay that

Why doesn't anyone in a position of power in this country use simple common sense anymore?

priestrape: Why doesn't anyone in a position of power in this country use simple common sense anymore?

because being stupid makes too much money

Heh..heh..It was just a 'malfunction' officer!

Rain-Monkey
Anyone with knowledge of the case is welcome to set us straight; otherwise the Wisconsin D.A. has a serious problem headed his way.

You go tiger, but go after the US AttGen. I thought the guy was charged by the Feds because of the ATF investigation but it did sound like local cops turned the dude into the ATF.

The most disturbing part was the details about the raid. That whole thing about no warrant.....Hmm, I hear Iceland is nice this time of year?

priestrape: Why doesn't anyone in a position of power in this country use simple common sense anymore?

Why did America only start paying attention to youth violence when it was suburban middle class white protestants killing each other rather than the decades long problems with minorities in the cities?

In short, when you see the police beat the shiat out of some poor sucker, don't assume it won't eventually trickle *up* thru society.

This story isn't about guns, it's about authoritarianism. Keep that in mind the next time some slope head bad mouths the ACLU.

Shaggy_C: Heh..heh..It was just a 'malfunction' officer!

Yes. Yes, it was.

DarnoKonrad: "the swat team was fully armed"

Hey stupids, when you ignore police behavior against the poor and minorities for decades, don't be surprised when you're next. Morons.

Same kind of guy that supports raids on the homes of attractive and successful citizens smoking grass? Probably.

This guy must have pissed someone off. Maybe he made a stupid comment in a message board.

Hang on, there's someone at the door...

DarnoKonrad: priestrape: Why doesn't anyone in a position of power in this country use simple common sense anymore?

Why did America only start paying attention to youth violence when it was suburban middle class white protestants killing each other rather than the decades long problems with minorities in the cities?

In short, when you see the police beat the shiat out of some poor sucker, don't assume it won't eventually trickle *up* thru society.

This story isn't about guns, it's about authoritarianism. Keep that in mind the next time some slope head bad mouths the ACLU.

This, of course, assumes anything about this story is accurate. If the jackass made a selective fire AR-15, and is feeding the media a line of shiat mixed with his 'military' credentials, he can rot in jail for all I care.

DarnoKonrad: This, of course, assumes anything about this story is accurate. If the jackass made a selective fire AR-15, and is feeding the media a line of shiat mixed with his 'military' credentials, he can rot in jail for all I care.

Did you watch the whole report? They tested the rifle and found just such a malfunction...

I don't like guns, but this story is crap.

/'nuf said.

so wait, he is now also considered a convicted felon as well, or has he been to trial already

I am generally pretty anti-gun ownership, especially assault rifles, but even to me this case is some serious BS. I dislike the idea of my fellow citizens owning military-grade weapons, but I dislike the railroading tactics used by the police and DA in this case even more. I hope he gets off on appeal.

LousyBeatnik: so wait, he is now also considered a convicted felon as well, or has he been to trial already

Tried and convicted. He's awaiting sentencing.

Samus_Araan: I dislike the idea of my fellow citizens owning military-grade weapons

That wasn't a military grade weapon

I thought we had the right to a set of bear arms on our walls!

/not obscure
//prison for a malfunctioning gun? no wai! :(

jwood: DarnoKonrad: "the swat team was fully armed"

Hey stupids, when you ignore police behavior against the poor and minorities for decades, don't be surprised when you're next. Morons.

Same kind of guy that supports raids on the homes of attractive and successful citizens smoking grass? Probably.

exactly. News paper around here a few years ago did a story about a swat team doing training on an abandoned house *because* 'they didn't have to worry about damage to the structure'.

The scenario was a drunk man went into the wrong house and fell asleep in the wrong living room after throwing a shiat fit. They kicked in the door and threw flash grenades. No shiat, you can't make this up.

So there you have it, if you ever get drunk and pass out in the neighbor's living room around here, the police will wake your ass up with flash grenades, you know, 'cause shooting a sleeping person is just wrong.

and BTW, crime can't get any lower around here.

Two Cats One Bowl: I am outraged, but also well aware that the same SWAT break-in tactics are used for drug raids all the time. Why aren't those getting similar press coverage?

Have you met DarnoKonrad?

This is nothing new, it's happened before. The ATF will find any semi-auto gun to be full auto if they want to. The ATF can also make de facto laws just by writing letters.

Wow. Royally Farked in the ass with a rolled up metallic copy of the US Constitution. If this isn't a clear example of tragic stupidity among the government officials involved, I need to be shown one that is.

Anyone have contact info for the DA and Prosecutors and the police department that handled this case? They need to be sent letters. Lots of letters. And the media too, in order to keep this fresh.

HR4900 and HR1791, Boy I would love to see a list of all the ryders on those bills that are going to sink em like a lead duck before they have a chance in hell of passing.

The first "raid" story of a gun owner isnt a threat, its when you have 3 or 4 in one week and a trend starts up....

Hmm vote for bush II and keep my guns but lose everything else.....or vote for Obama and get rainbows and puppies but lose my guns?

Jeez, the right wing only gets fired up (ha ha) about their rights when it comes to guns.

People get railroaded like this guy all the time. It's usually really poor people, or someone who does drugs, like that kid who was sentenced to life in prison for dealing a small amount of marijuana.

Both are miscarriages of true justice. The difference is, this guy will be sentenced to some nominal amount of time, like when a jury awards $1 in damages.

Mr_Juche: The most disturbing part was the details about the raid. That whole thing about no warrant.....Hmm, I hear Iceland is nice this time of year?

Thats the biggest problem I have, arent they supposed to show you the warrant in your presence? Seems like he has a good case for illegal search and seizure if they didnt present the homeowner with the warrant.

Meh see I disagree about the raid. I see the raid as ok, they stated they never showed the subject the search warrant (yes I do agree shame on them) but that doesn't mean they didn't have one, if they didn't they would have mentioned that in the report. Also the swat team was called in because they heard a man had a large collection of possibly automatic weapons... Though I can't completely back them up the ATF really has a bad record... I'm surprised they are still aloud to conduct raids with their record.

The guy is being railroaded though. It sounds like an honest mistake and I think the government was really dumb to focus on someone who is an upstanding citizen.

That being said, lets say this guy loaned his gun to his neighbor, who he 'thought' he knew. Then said neighbor goes crazy we would have a whole different discussion here on fark.

Gun laws are weird, no one in southern California walks around with exposed weapons... NO ONE (in this area)

tdpatriots12: DarnoKonrad: This, of course, assumes anything about this story is accurate. If the jackass made a selective fire AR-15, and is feeding the media a line of shiat mixed with his 'military' credentials, he can rot in jail for all I care.

Did you watch the whole report? They tested the rifle and found just such a malfunction...

yea, I watched it. It's cable news man. People pay for that crap -- they sell what people *want* to buy. Grain of salt.

Mr_Juche: The most disturbing part was the details about the raid. That whole thing about no warrant.....Hmm, I hear Iceland is nice this time of year?

Exactly. I mean, yeah, he knew he shouldn't be lending anybody his AR-15, but that law has a purpose: accountability for criminal acts perpetrated with the firearm. There's no evidence whatsoever this is what was happening here; just a neighbor borrowing something from a friend. This guy got screwed, and the ones who did it will not only do it again, but will take pride in it.

But you know what the most disgusting part of it is? The guy did technically break the law, and many of the people here on Fark and nationwide who will scream bloody murder over this case would be applauding the same law enforcement tactics, the same prosecutorial intent, and the same lack of consideration for individual rights if it were almost ANY other victimless crime.

This is how you get a country with the highest percentage of its citizens in prison of any in the world: voters who support even the most ridiculous "tough on crime" pandering unless they come for one of their personal pet issues.

Two Cats One Bowl: I am outraged, but also well aware that the same SWAT break-in tactics are used for drug raids all the time. Why aren't those getting similar press coverage?

Its not the swat team thats the big deal, they didnt give him a warrant according to the video, that should be the most disturbing part to the people.

The drug war is bullshiat as well, but thats for a different thread.

A couple of interesting discussions on hammer-follow, the error that caused the burst fire.
It seems that per the links below home gun smithing by mixing different internal hardware can cause it. It seems the ATF is really acting reactive and unfair on this, or there is more than meets the eye. And gun experts, this is what I am getting from the sites below, correct me as necessary.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-2381.html
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13002

Christian Bale: Jeez, the right wing only gets fired up (ha ha) about their rights when it comes to guns.

People get railroaded like this guy all the time. It's usually really poor people, or someone who does drugs, like that kid who was sentenced to life in prison for dealing a small amount of marijuana.

Both are miscarriages of true justice. The difference is, this guy will be sentenced to some nominal amount of time, like when a jury awards $1 in damages.

Yes...let's never deal with what is clearly an injustice today because of the endless stream of injustices that came before it. Let's just add this one to the list and thank god it wasn't a minority this time

Ok if you want to get into semantics a semi-auto AR-15 is NOT technically military-grade. This distinction is clearly necessary and makes owning one in an urban environment completely acceptable. Whew. Thank god we found that euphemistic loophole to rationality there!

orclover


My thoughts exactly...however, I don't think Obama wants to take the guns, but regulate and register them.

I'm always been more for gun restrictions; not seeing why people need to have weapons with such killing power. A story like this is nuts though. I still might not be very pro-gun, but I'm very pro-constitution. Who the fark are these people to screw with the 2nd Amendment?

This is the reason we're supposed to have a gun, right? Right?

Samus_Araan: Ok if you want to get into semantics a semi-auto AR-15 is NOT technically military-grade. This distinction is clearly necessary and makes owning one in an urban environment completely acceptable. Whew. Thank god we found that euphemistic loophole to rationality there!

It's not a loophole, no matter how much sarcasm you want to drip. It's also not a technicality.

Prospero424: The guy did technically break the law

Maybe the letter of the law, but even that's a stretch.

Enemabag Jones: It seems that per the links below home gun smithing by mixing different internal hardware can cause it.

Uh-oh. Now you've done it.

RHMolBio: orclover


My thoughts exactly...however, I don't think Obama wants to take the guns, but regulate and register them.

Watch that first step, it can be a doozy.

/slippery slope an all that.

Prospero424: This is how you get a country with the highest percentage of its citizens in prison of any in the world: voters who support even the most ridiculous "tough on crime" pandering unless they come for one of their personal pet issues.

THIS.

10 million incarnated or on probation.

Christian Bale: Jeez, the right wing only gets fired up (ha ha) about their rights when it comes to guns.

People get railroaded like this guy all the time. It's usually really poor people, or someone who does drugs, like that kid who was sentenced to life in prison for dealing a small amount of marijuana.


I think a big difference is character in this case. A drug deal, even just branded a drug deal is hard to feel bad for in the American Psyche, but most of the middle of the country are called proud gun owners. And I mean a gun is still legal to own, a joint is. I'm NOT trying to argue ethics or policy.

The government isn't there to protect your rights. Your rights are there to protect you from the government.

/Kids these days.

Mayan Pilot: I'm always been more for gun restrictions; not seeing why people need to have weapons with such killing power. A story like this is nuts though. I still might not be very pro-gun, but I'm very pro-constitution. Who the fark are these people to screw with the 2nd Amendment?

Absolutely. As much as I think it is completely asinine to own an assault rifle, it is allowed by law and the constitution. Don't like it? Change the law and amend the constitution. Don't railroad a guy whose legal firearm malfunctioned.