How generous of him.

He's so wrong.

Clearly the only people who count are the almighty's chosen people: midgets.

As a Buddhist, I love how he defended religious tolerance while kicking non-monotheists in the teeth.

Mitt Romney is like the nerd in high school who picks fights with other other nerds to become popular. It doesn't work. At the end of the day, he is still a nerd.

Well, then, he's one up on George Bush Senior. Here's a quote from a press conference conducted in 1987, when he was beginning his run for the presidency:

Q: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Q: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Q: Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

Cyberluddite: I'm just not very high on atheists.

someone just needs to hook him up with a pound of pure uncut atheists, that'll get him high as a kite.

"We are all in this together," Romney said. "Religious liberty and liberality of thought flow from the common conviction that it is freedom, not coercion, that exalts the individual just as it raises up the nation."

Hey, he's stumbling toward enlightenment. Can't complain about that.

But that quote I took really resonates with me. I never quite understood how so many fundamentalist Christians could take laws that are inclusive of everyone as being exclusive of them in particular.

Freedom's only freedom when it applies to all of us.

About time.

People can be athy? To the point where some of them are athiest?

Cyberluddite: Well, then, he's one up on George Bush Senior. Here's a quote from a press conference conducted in 1987, when he was beginning his run for the presidency:

Q: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Q: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Q: Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

Strangely enough, anytime I hear a quote from Bush the Elder, I am filled with a longing for simpler, less scary times. He could be saying "I like to masturbate into the intestines of puppies while dropping bombs on Baghdad from a B-52", and I'd still look at him like some kindly grandpa figure.

I used to detest him. Ha ha. How ignorant I was about what a crappy president truly is.

Locke3k: People can be athy? To the point where some of them are athiest?

i'm athier than you are

burndtdan: Locke3k: People can be athy? To the point where some of them are athiest?

i'm athier than you are

Athier than thou, perhaps?

On Sexual Orientation & Gender: 62% said they believe Americans oppose same-sex marriages. Yet 58% would elect a gay person for President - about the same as for an Arab-American (57%), and more than for a person over age 70 (51%), or for an atheist (51%). On gender, 93% think Americans believe men are most responsible for crime, extra-marital affairs (82%), and sexually transmitted diseases (72%). (Zogby)

Americans are more comfortable with a fabulous President than a godless President.

cousin-merle: On Sexual Orientation & Gender: 62% said they believe Americans oppose same-sex marriages. Yet 58% would elect a gay person for President - about the same as for an Arab-American (57%), and more than for a person over age 70 (51%), or for an atheist (51%). On gender, 93% think Americans believe men are most responsible for crime, extra-marital affairs (82%), and sexually transmitted diseases (72%). (Zogby)

Americans are more comfortable with a fabulous President than a godless President.

The most important stat here is that apparently only 51% of Americans are even willing to consider electing somebody as old as McCain.

Good luck, old buddy....better hope all of that 51% actually turn out to vote for you...

I'm just looking forward to the day when I can vote for a gay 75 year old female Arab-American atheist.

Locke3k: The most important stat here is that apparently only 51% of Americans are even willing to consider electing somebody as old as McCain.

Good luck, old buddy....better hope all of that 51% actually turn out to vote for you...

Just one of many reasons he has no chance.

CrankMyBlueSax: I'm just looking forward to the day when I can vote for a gay 75 year old female Arab-American atheist.

Wafa Sultan FTW!

I saw a bumper sticker this morning that read "God's Law or CHAOS" After a moment of being pissed off, I couldn't help but to feel bad for someone who needs an imaginary authority figure and/or thread of afterlife consequences to behave like a civilized human being. That has to be a mind-numbingly depressing way to go through life.

mediaho: I saw a bumper sticker this morning that read "God's Law or CHAOS" After a moment of being pissed off, I couldn't help but to feel bad for someone who needs an imaginary authority figure and/or thread of afterlife consequences to behave like a civilized human being. That has to be a mind-numbingly depressing way to go through life.

Maybe he meant Chaos in the sense of the Ancient Greek concept of primordial disorder.

Maybe?

While I respect his revelation, I can't help but feel that he came to this realization because of all of the non-Mormon Christians viciously attacking his beliefs on the campaign trail - that if he weren't the target of that kind of fierce discrimination, he would continue to believe that morality comes from faith.

It's as "noble" as Christopher Reeve devoting his life and resources to curing paralysis after he was crippled.

mediaho: thread of afterlife consequences

Threat, rather.

TFA: In the Becket speech, Romney also defended the contention that "religion requires freedom and that freedom requires religion."

The first part, sure. That second part?

Romney 2012: God, what God? ELECT ME PRESIDENT! I'LL DO ANYTHING!

DamnYankees: mediaho: I saw a bumper sticker this morning that read "God's Law or CHAOS" After a moment of being pissed off, I couldn't help but to feel bad for someone who needs an imaginary authority figure and/or thread of afterlife consequences to behave like a civilized human being. That has to be a mind-numbingly depressing way to go through life.

Maybe he meant Chaos in the sense of the Ancient Greek concept of primordial disorder.

Maybe?

Maybe he meant the final boss of Final Fantasy 1 Chaos.

Just came here to say that reading anything Kathryn Jean Lopez produces is guaranteed to lower one's IQ 3-5 points.

Kome
Maybe he meant the final boss of Final Fantasy 1 Chaos.

I should add you to my list of favorite Farkers for this statement alone!

/Fark is the only place where I am not the geekiest person in the room.

Diogenes: Hey, he's stumbling toward enlightenment.

The full text of the speech shows he's got a long way to go:

Would America and the freedom she inaugurated here and across the world survive - over centuries - if we were to abandon our faith in God? I don't believe so. [...] But I do believe, like Adams and Washington and Hamilton, that "national morality" as Hamilton put it, "require[s] the aid of . . . divinely authoritative religion."

mediaho: if he weren't the target of that kind of fierce discrimination, he would continue to believe that morality comes from faith.

As the further quote indicates, he still does in spite of it.

mediaho: While I respect his revelation, I can't help but feel that he came to this realization because of all of the non-Mormon Christians viciously attacking his beliefs on the campaign trail - that if he weren't the target of that kind of fierce discrimination, he would continue to believe that morality comes from faith.

It's as "noble" as Christopher Reeve devoting his life and resources to curing paralysis after he was crippled.

This

burndtdan: Cyberluddite: I'm just not very high on atheists.

someone just needs to hook him up with a pound of pure uncut atheists, that'll get him high as a kite.

I've got about a pound of pure uncut atheist in my pants.

CrankMyBlueSax:

I'm just looking forward to the day when I can vote for a gay 75 year old female Arab-American atheist.

Helen Thomas?

/Kidding - I love Helen!

Kome: Maybe he meant the final boss of Final Fantasy 1 Chaos.

"God's Law or GARLAND like 1000 years in the past"

importedbeer: Kome
Maybe he meant the final boss of Final Fantasy 1 Chaos.

I should add you to my list of favorite Farkers for this statement alone!

/Fark is the only place where I am not the geekiest person in the room.

I do what I can.

Farmers Market: mediaho: While I respect his revelation, I can't help but feel that he came to this realization because of all of the non-Mormon Christians viciously attacking his beliefs on the campaign trail - that if he weren't the target of that kind of fierce discrimination, he would continue to believe that morality comes from faith.

It's as "noble" as Christopher Reeve devoting his life and resources to curing paralysis after he was crippled.

This

Doesn't have to be done for noble reasons to still be a good thing.

Uhh...submitter, he never said they weren't. He made a vague reference which some overly sensitive people took the wrong way. He later clarified what he meant several times. But it's politics, and nobody listens to clarifications.

helix400: Uhh...submitter, he never said they weren't. He made a vague reference which some overly sensitive people took the wrong way. He later clarified what he meant several times. But it's politics, and nobody listens to clarifications.

Overly sensitive? He said democracy requires religious. That's just bigoted.

"I love how plainly that thought was put by John Adams," Romney said: "Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean Hell."

Ironic fail. If it's not fit to be mentioned in polite company, don't name it in your speech.

BMulligan: CrankMyBlueSax:

I'm just looking forward to the day when I can vote for a gay 75 year old female Arab-American atheist.

Helen Thomas?

/Kidding - I love Helen!



No sharp knees there.

CityHall: Ironic fail. If it's not fit to be mentioned in polite company, don't name it in your speech.

You fail at failing; that was part of the quote, in a letter from Adams to Jefferson.

/I support Addams Family values.

DamnYankees: Overly sensitive? He said democracy requires religious. That's just bigoted.

No, he said freedom requires that religion must be allowed to exist. Just as religion requires freedom to exist.

Lispin'Liberal:

No sharp knees there.

...and the scary thing is that's one of her good pictures. Helen's smart as a whip and has a big brass pair, but she's no looker.

helix400: DamnYankees: Overly sensitive? He said democracy requires religious. That's just bigoted.

No, he said freedom requires that religion must be allowed to exist. Just as religion requires freedom to exist.

WHOA. He did *not* say that. He said freedom requires religion. Period. He didn't say it requires religious tolerance.

abb3w: /I support Addams Family values.

Bravo, sir. Bravo.

DamnYankees: WHOA. He did *not* say that. He said freedom requires religion. Period.

The quote can be taken two ways. That's why you have to go with his stances before and after the statement to get an idea which one it was. And yes, he absolutely didn't mean it the way you claim (which this article also clarifies.)

DamnYankees: Overly sensitive? He said democracy requires religious. That's just bigoted.

It's only bigoted if you don't ignore the existence of atheists!

helix400: No, he said freedom requires that religion must be allowed to exist. Just as religion requires freedom to exist.

No, he thinks he's better than me.

"Nor can we overlook that people of faith have a unique appreciation for freedom. Because the practice of religion requires freedom, liberty is especially precious to people of faith. They are willing to sacrifice much to protect it."

Boo. Wake me up when the "SKY WIZARD FUNDIES vs. GODLESS COMMUNIST HEATHENS" flamewar starts.

FTFA: Romney said: "Upon reflection, I came to understand that while I could defend their absence from my address, I had missed an opportunity...an opportunity to clearly assert that non-believers have just as great a stake as believers in defending religious liberty....If a society takes it upon itself to prescribe and proscribe certain streams of belief - to prohibit certain less-favored strains of conscience - it may be the non-believer who is among the first to be condemned."

DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

But I'm sure that he wouldn't want one marrying his daughter...

cousin-merle: "Nor can we overlook that people of faith have a unique appreciation for freedom. Because the practice of religion requires freedom, liberty is especially precious to people of faith. They are willing to sacrifice much to protect it."

I actually don't have a problem with that statement.

helix400: The quote can be taken two ways. That's why you have to go with his stances before and after the statement to get an idea which one it was. And yes, he absolutely didn't mean it the way you claim (which this article also clarifies.)

Or we can take a look at the man as a whole, the history of his party and his ideals, and not merely look at quotes he said in trying to clean up a bigoted speech.

abb3w: As the further quote indicates, he still does in spite of it.

Kome: Doesn't have to be done for noble reasons to still be a good thing.

No, which is why I prefaced with an admittedly backhanded compliment. He gets points for taking tentative steps out of darkness, though. Another point for admitting a failing at a time when it's not particularly politically advantageous. He would have gotten more points if he admitted it when running for Prez instead of spending the entire campaign pandering to those people who mistrust him for the same stupid, petty and ignorant reasons he heretofore mistrusted people like me.

Those points are redeemable at any Bambi's Cleaners in South Philly. Non-transferable.

abb3w: /I support Addams Family values.

Me too. They do what they want to do, say what they want to say, live how they want to live, play how they want to play...