Unlikely?
I always thought so, but here we are and that is just about exactly what has happened.

That headline is scary.

Hold me.

I've been a bit ashamed to call myself an American ever since the pussiness following 9/11. If the point of terrorism is to make us shake in our boots and hide under our beds and accept whatever stupid authoritarian bullshiat our government imposes in the name of "national security," then the terrorists have won the greatest victory since the Battle of New Orleans.

People that think we should give up our rights in the face of terrorism fail to get the point of terrorism and are unpatriotic and un-American.

A point completely missed by the Neocons.

Best. Article. Evar.

followmeinfantry: Best. Article. Evar.

I agree.

So true.

Americans forgot who had the power in their country - themselves.

followmeinfantry: Best. Article. Evar.

Yet, where is the change?

/been saying this since 2002

oldebayer: If the point of terrorism is to make us shake in our boots and hide under our beds and accept whatever stupid authoritarian bullshiat our government imposes in the name of "national security," then the terrorists have won the greatest victory since the Battle of New Orleans.

New Orleans 1815 or New Orleans 2005?

Said this so many times that I'm sick of repeating it. Good to see someone else is picking up the slack.

Andric: requisite slurring (racism, "libtards", etc.): +3
denigration of education: +2
use of the word "Islamofascist" +4
poor spelling: +1

I give it a perfect 10!

I dunno... he got a couple of solid hooks, but he used some variant of "liberal" three times in the first two sentences. Not subtle enough for a perfect 10, I'd give it more of a 7-8.

/I'm the East German judge of trolling.

Wow. Hate to double-post, but after that page-long hook of krispos42, I'm going to have to award an additional point to Dr.Zom.

George W. called it "just a piece of paper."

Man... this bit of truthiness is never going to die.
One guy ran that story and the blogherd picked it up
But ultimately, nobody could verify it.

I've been harping on a similar point.

Every time I hear someone say "War on Terror", I immediately translate those words into "I'm a f**king coward. Protect me because so I can come out from behind my wheelchair bound grandmother."

Pussies. All of them.

We're all gunna die, yah might as well die well.

I watched a documentary this week that sort of outlines how what's happening now is very similar to how the Nazi's came to power in Germany.

Goverment using a terrorist attack to erode civil liberties so that anyone who stood up to them could be duely punished & removed. Then repeat enough times so that people are afraid to do anything for fear of repremand.

//Land of the Free, Home of the Brave...

USA on the decline like every other stupid empire in history?

You'll get over it.

Rise of the Weak: When faced with cave-dwelling terrorists, we've become shrieking cowards who are willing to trade our Constitution, our freedoms & our souls in exchange for a Nanny State Fatherland

There's an obvious tag for a reason submitter.

liberalish: (seemed a little too much like what's his name that believes we're all going to be shipped out internment camps in arizona. but i think he really believes it)

skookum

/had to go look through a few threads

To be fair, the isolationist/control-freak bunch are always around, it's just that in the presence of an extenal threat the genuine improvements to security of their policies make them slightly less of a horrible, horrible trade-off. We haven't really "become" anything we weren't before. The controlled-economy bunch are still there, and the individual-rights bunch are still there, and they're still yelling at each other constantly. There hasn't been a situation of complete dominance (with one side shutting up completely) yet, and the balance between the two in terms of power honestly hasn't shifted that much, each side is just making a bigger deal than reasonable about how the other is destroying America -- also par for the course.

We have genuine problems to take care of, guys. Don't stop discussing these issues, because they're obviously of some import, but they're hardly worth freaking out and predicting that the end-times are immanent because a couple political factions in the US disagree loudly with each other.

mister13: USA on the decline like every other stupid empire in history?

You'll get over it.

OK here's my theory: France, England, Germany, Japan, what do they have in common?

1) at some point in the last few hundred years they engaged in empire building and were eventually defeated.
2) at some point(s) in the modern era they were attacked and large percentages of their infrastructure was destroyed/population killed.
3) fairly good size population relative to other countries
4) democratic

so after having many citizens killed, and cities destroyed, and dollars spent on failed empires (I know that these points may relate to each country differently, but they are all there for each)
the citizens finally decided having a foreign policy based on conquering other lands was futile and began electing leaders who would be focused primarily on domestic issues. Now these countries are all very successful democracies with very domestic priorities.

This is my theory on the difference between the American and European (Japanese) mindsets for their view of their own nation. Major European powers and Japan can remember being destroyed, yet also can remember the costs and problems trying to build and maintain an empire, America has no such memory and yet I fear it's wisdom would help us greatly when we think about what "America" should be (no, I am not saying we need to be destroyed, nor become isolationist, think harder) .

In the days following Spetember 11, I think Americans rightly assumed the worst. That the threat of terrorism was enormous.

Unfortunately, Americans continued to believe this in the following months and years even though it quickly became obvous that this was the case.

Then again, the Bush administration owns some responsibility as they hyped the thread.

Rise of the Weak: When faced with cave-dwelling terrorists, liberals become shrieking cowards who are willing to back stab their own country for political gain and regularly insult the military and it's commanders all while claiming that it is 'wrong' to question their 'patriotism'.

Fixed.

I like how the list shrugs off 4000 innocent civilians killed in an unprovoked attack as nothing but a mere statistic but, then makes 4000 troops killed in active combat a significant number as to why we shouldn't be at war.

yarnothuntin: I like how the list shrugs off 4000 innocent civilians killed in an unprovoked attack as nothing but a mere statistic but, then makes 4000 troops killed in active combat a significant number as to why we shouldn't be at war.

Pretty sure the point was that we've lost 4000 soldiers after we publicly declared victory.

morning_foil:
Oh, oh! I know! You're saying America should become the ultimate indestructible empire it's supposed to become!!!1 We're number 1! USA! USA! USA!

lolmao666:
Yay america!

Your implications that jingoism is typical of Americans disturbs me, not because there is any significant truth to what you said, but because you believe there is. Such an assumption indicates foolishness on your part. These pseudo-patriotic actions of buying flags on clothing and bumper stickers and other such nonsense is a response prompted by fear, a fear that has been inflamed by the irresponsible actions of those in power (especially the media). This fear is not something to be mocked, rather something to be reasoned out of existence.

Success in Afghanistan is important for this very reason. We have to show we can harm those who harm us (Al-Qaeda and their protectors), and uphold our ethics by protecting the innocent (Afghani citizens) from collateral damage. This is an incredibly difficult proposition, one that any other nation would struggle with. If we succeed, we can convince our fellow citizens that their fears are unfounded and hopefully have a more agreeable foreign policy. If we fail? We'll likely have many more years of foolishness due to actions inspired by paranoia and fear.

Therefore, instead of just sarcastically mocking your colleagues for their supposed blind nuttishness(this is a word, I hope), wouldn't your efforts be better spent by working to end the fear?

We have become a nation of sissies, most definitely. The solution isn't to blame, mock or berate; rather, it's time to fix. We know the origin of the problem and it's implications, now we just need to explore and enact it's neutralization.

SurahAhriman: Pretty sure the point was that we've lost 4000 soldiers after we publicly declared victory.

Yeah, but according to that completely unbiased and insightful list what's a mere 4000 dead when compared to all the other deaths in America?

Sandwyrm: Your implications that jingoism is typical of Americans disturbs me, not because there is any significant truth to what you said, but because you believe there is. Such an assumption indicates foolishness on your part. These pseudo-patriotic actions of buying flags on clothing and bumper stickers and other such nonsense is a response prompted by fear, a fear that has been inflamed by the irresponsible actions of those in power (especially the media). This fear is not something to be mocked, rather something to be reasoned out of existence.

while I totally agree with you (ok, mostly, I believe jingoism is more common than you seem to), this is Fark, the home of mocking things.

Success in Afghanistan is important for this very reason. We have to show we can harm those who harm us (Al-Qaeda and their protectors), and uphold our ethics by protecting the innocent (Afghani citizens) from collateral damage. This is an incredibly difficult proposition, one that any other nation would struggle with. If we succeed, we can convince our fellow citizens that their fears are unfounded and hopefully have a more agreeable foreign policy. If we fail? We'll likely have many more years of foolishness due to actions inspired by paranoia and fear.

I think we can agree that Afghanistan and Iraq are two very different fights, and deserve two very different levels of support from the American people.

Therefore, instead of just sarcastically mocking your colleagues for their supposed blind nuttishness(this is a word, I hope), wouldn't your efforts be better spent by working to end the fear?
We have become a nation of sissies, most definitely. The solution isn't to blame, mock or berate; rather, it's time to fix. We know the origin of the problem and it's implications, now we just need to explore and enact it's neutralization.

again, this is Fark.

Actually, in reality, in 500 years- heck 200 years from now, this time period that means so much to us, will be referenced here and there by a handful of pseudo-intellectuals on Fark 5.0 who, while being so proud of their esoteric knowledge of obscure American history, will spend most of their time mocking contemparary high school students who can't even name 5 state capitals or find China on a map and people who still believe in magic sky wizards.

liberalish:
again, this is Fark.

This should not be an excuse...

but it is. I can't persuade you all to enact change when I have done nothing myself to that end.

How I wish the ancient Greek public forums were the norm these days. How I wish it were easy to break the stranglehold the MSM has on meaningful public discourse regarding politics and such. Why can't we effect as much change on the 'net as those bastards do sitting in their expensive digital caves parroting the same tired bs that has been trotted out during every crisis since the Black Death?

yarnothuntin: SurahAhriman: Pretty sure the point was that we've lost 4000 soldiers after we publicly declared victory.

Yeah, but according to that completely unbiased and insightful list what's a mere 4000 dead when compared to all the other deaths in America?

Again, I think you're missing the point.

"Fear death by terrorism being disproportional to actual causes of death" is not the same thing as "prematurely declaring victory in an absurdly public manner, only to have that declaration ring hollow in a similarly public manner".

For the comparison you're trying to make, I suspect the author of the article would freely admit that "fear of dying by IED in Iraq" is similarly unjustified, provided you have no reason to actively suspect that it may happen (such as by being in Iraq).

Speak for yourself, trollmitter

/drtfa

Did the "Obvious" tag get arrested because of the PATRIOT act?

Macular Degenerate: Speak for yourself, trollmitter

/drtfa

then rtfa.

Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death"

Dubya took an oath to "Support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic..." yet he continues to state that his job it to "protect the American people", not to protect the constitution.

I hope we get a president who understands the oath.

SurahAhriman: No, I think your missing the point. I was pointing out the weakness of his argument. You can't make fun of everybody getting their panties in a bunch over 4000 people killed in a terrorist attack then, 6 lines later get your panties in a bunch over 4000 troops being killed in active combat.

let's compare and contrast shall we?

6 million Americans had car accidents every year; 560,000 Americans died from cancer every year (1,500 a day, roughly 1 in every 4 American deaths); there was 1 death every 27 seconds from heart disease; 500,000 died from tobacco every year; 100,000 died from alcohol every year; 16,000 died from illegal narcotics every year; 11,000 died from handguns every year. But what were 21st Americans concerned with? Terrorists... who killed around 4,000 Americans from 2001 to 2008.

kind of says, meh big deal- why are we so concerned about Terrorists

then:

"Mission Accomplished in Iraq?" It was a nice photo op, but since that declaration, more than 4,000 American soldiers died, more than 700,000 Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with 9-11 were killed, and the mastermind behind the 9-11 attackers was uncaught and unpunished.


All of a sudden it's OMG what a waste of human life!!!11!

In the end the death tolls aren't the point, things like wiretaps without warrants, the Dept of Homeland Security, TSA etc are the point. The fact people don't scream out a massive STFU to any official who tries to scare anyone with talk about any terrorists.

yarnothuntin: "Mission Accomplished in Iraq?" It was a nice photo op, but since that declaration, more than 4,000 American soldiers died, more than 700,000 Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with 9-11 were killed, and the mastermind behind the 9-11 attackers was uncaught and unpunished.


All of a sudden it's OMG what a waste of human life!!!11!

I think the OMG what a waste of human life!!!11! section of the above sentence is:

"Mission Accomplished in Iraq?" It was a nice photo op, but since that declaration, more than 4,000 American soldiers died, more than 700,000 Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with 9-11 were killed, and the mastermind behind the 9-11 attackers was uncaught and unpunished."

Occam's Chainsaw:
"Mission Accomplished in Iraq?" It was a nice photo op, but since that declaration, more than 4,000 American soldiers died, more than 700,000 Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with 9-11 were killed, and the mastermind behind the 9-11 attackers was uncaught and unpunished."

Exactly my point.

6 million Americans had car accidents every year; 560,000 Americans died from cancer every year (1,500 a day, roughly 1 in every 4 American deaths); there was 1 death every 27 seconds from heart disease; 500,000 died from tobacco every year; 100,000 died from alcohol every year; 16,000 died from illegal narcotics every year; 11,000 died from handguns every year

that's 7,187,000 American statistics so, those 700,000 poor Iraqis are no big deal then according to this guys "logic"

My point is, this article is stupid.

WhyteRaven74: In the end the death tolls aren't the point, things like wiretaps without warrants, the Dept of Homeland Security, TSA etc are the point. The fact people don't scream out a massive STFU to any official who tries to scare anyone with talk about any terrorists.

This is true, but I still hold to my thinking that this period will pretty much fade into obscurity. Only to show up here and there as the Daily Double on future Jeopardy. Or that question on a history test with some kid who didn't study pulling his hair saying, "Oh man, I know this one... who was that farking president again?"

wiretaps on american citizens in america without warrants in response to dirty little gremlins.

it's shameful.

Malicious Bastard: George W. called it "just a piece of paper."

Man... this bit of truthiness is never going to die.
One guy ran that story and the blogherd picked it up
But ultimately, nobody could verify it.

OK, invision this. George Bush is the president. Has been for nearly 8 years.

If you went up to him right now, and asked "What's your thoughts on the eighth amendment?"

Can you look me in the eye and tell me he'd even know what it was or, if he'd have a cogent opinion on the topic?

Wow - this genius didn't miss a single shibboleth. Nice work.

yarnothuntin: This is true, but I still hold to my thinking that this period will pretty much fade into obscurity. Only to show up here and there as the Daily Double on future Jeopardy. Or that question on a history test with some kid who didn't study pulling his hair saying, "Oh man, I know this one... who was that farking president again?"

I dunno about that. I'm sure if you were around in late January, 41 AD, you'd hear some Romans saying, "I'm glad that Caligula fool is gone. Thank the gods that in 100 years, no one will remember his name."

I see the first decade of the 21st century standing out in American history. It will either be one of the greatest tests of the Constitution's ability to survive a changing world, or the beginning of the end of the American experiment.

Occam's Chainsaw: I dunno about that. I'm sure if you were around in late January, 41 AD, you'd hear some Romans saying, "I'm glad that Caligula fool is gone. Thank the gods that in 100 years, no one will remember his name."
I see the first decade of the 21st century standing out in American history. It will either be one of the greatest tests of the Constitution's ability to survive a changing world, or the beginning of the end of the American experiment.

Yeah, that's true but I don't think Bush is another Caligula or even another Hitler. I just don't give him that much credit to influence history ya know? I mean, Roosevelt bent the constitution quite a bit and nobody really talks about that anymore. The focus is usually just on the circumstances that surrounded him. I have faith in the ignorance of future generations that this little bit of unpleasantness will be long forgotten. Call me an optimist =).

oldebayer: I've been a bit ashamed to call myself an American ever since the pussiness following 9/11. If the point of terrorism is to make us shake in our boots and hide under our beds and accept whatever stupid authoritarian bullshiat our government imposes in the name of "national security," then the terrorists have won the greatest victory since the Battle of New Orleans.

No. The point of terrorism is to achieve a political goal. Scaring people and extra security isn't a political goal of th eenemy.

For that matter anyone who thinks their essential freedoms are robbed by long lines at airport security and stupid rules, doesn't understand freedom.

unexplained bacon: wiretaps on american citizens in america without warrants in response to dirty little gremlins.

it's shameful.


They could do that before with FISA, which they still use on domestic calls. And legally you never had a right to privacy
on international calls.

What will historians say about this period? Not much, I think. Humanity will be mostly reduced to grunting and pointing, although the occasional dreamer may spot an abandoned book, and wonder what the little black pictures meant to the Old Ones.

FarkOf40000Years: Humanity will be mostly reduced to grunting and pointing.

That's hot.

morning_foil: Nah, it's just that...

img440.imageshack.us

I want one of those for my car. Where can I buy one, RIGHT NOW?

liam76: For that matter anyone who thinks their essential freedoms are robbed by long lines at airport security and stupid rules, doesn't understand freedom.

Damn straight. Freedom is about being able burn flags in public protests, to smoke pot in the privacy of your own home, marry who you want to marry, and be safe in the knowledge that a corrupt city government will never come take your house and land to build a football stadium.

Chaon: Damn straight. Freedom is about being able burn flags in public protests, to smoke pot in the privacy of your own home, marry who you want to marry, and be safe in the knowledge that a corrupt city government will never come take your house and land to build a football stadium.

Farkin A man. Seriously.