that's fantastic. she gains 10 delegates, which won't make a damn bit of difference. on the other hand, she doesn't deserve dick. she picks up 10 extra delegates for trying to change the rules and being a loud mouthed biatch.

she's been acting like the loud biatchy woman in front of you at wal-mart who knows damn well she isn't entitled to a return on her stretch pants but yells at the manager relentlessly anyway until they give her store credit just to shut her up and get her out of the store.

Well said, cranberryzero. Her entire campaign lately has been based on, "if I say it loud enough and often enough, it becomes true."

And you're very right. She doesn't deserve dick. But hopefully those who are paying attention will see this as damning with faint praise.

cranberryzero: she doesn't deserve dick.

Stop right there. No more else needs to be said.

/50-50 or STFU and GTFU you bunch of rule-breaking cry babies.

she deserves +10 for eeking out a win against uncommitted despite having the governor and every high-ranking Democrat in the state on her side.

Just give everyone from Michigan and Florida 3/5ths of a vote. A compromise, if you will.

CarolynLibrarian: Well said, cranberryzero. Her entire campaign lately has been based on, "if I say it loud enough and often enough, it becomes true."

Which would have worked too, if not for those kids and their darn internets.

And you're very right. She doesn't deserve dick. But hopefully those who are paying attention will see this as damning with faint praise.

I'd rather be up front and in your face with the Hillary insults. that woman is pathologically incapable of human emotion or even common decency. It needs to be made absolutely clear to each and every voter that Hillary lost the election because of her lying, sociopathic deranged control freak ways and not because a bunch of good old boys ganged up on the poor defenseless and helpless woman.

cranberryzero:

she's been acting like the loud biatchy woman in front of you at wal-mart who knows damn well she isn't entitled to a return on her stretch pants but yells at the manager relentlessly anyway until they give her store credit just to shut her up and get her out of the store.



/ A++++, would giggle again :)

This is the democratic party nuking itself, it has nothing to do with hillary and how loud mouthed that she is...

The candidates signed the paper and now someone is whining and they are caving to it. If Obama was whining, it'd be the same.

Way to go DNC, you really know how to stick to your guns.

cranberryzero: she's been acting like the loud biatchy woman in front of you at wal-mart who knows damn well she isn't entitled to a return on her stretch pants but yells at the manager relentlessly anyway until they give her store credit just to shut her up and get her out of the store.

HA! that really does sum it up nicely.

nice touch with the stretch pants reference.

Dude seriously WTF:

Just give everyone from Michigan and Florida 3/5ths of a vote. A compromise, if you will.


I approve this suggestion and recommend extending it to the general election.

This business will get out of control.

It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

abuttino: This is the democratic party nuking itself, it has nothing to do with hillary and how loud mouthed that she is...

The candidates signed the paper and now someone is whining and they are caving to it. If Obama was whining, it'd be the same.

Way to go DNC, you really know how to stick to your guns.

To be fair, the democrats can break their own rules if they want. it's entirely legal, and it's their right to do so.

However, there WILL be consequences for such an action.

PowerSlacker: Dude seriously WTF:

Just give everyone from Michigan and Florida 3/5ths of a vote. A compromise, if you will.


I approve this suggestion and recommend extending it to the general election.

But only to those unimportant states that don't really matter. Important states that really matter, they get 1/1 of a vote.

How do they figure Obama gets any at all? he wasn't even on the ballot?

None of the delegates should be counted, would that really be the end of the farking world?

Headso: How do they figure Obama gets any at all? he wasn't even on the ballot?

Figure they'd give him all the "uncommitted" votes.

Headso: None of the delegates should be counted, would that really be the end of the farking world?

Hillary would cry about the unfairness of it all and there are enough idiots out there who would believe her. Enough to cause a problem anyways.

cranberryzero: she picks up 10 extra delegates for trying to change the rules and being a loud mouthed biatch.

THIS

Headso: How do they figure Obama gets any at all? he wasn't even on the ballot?

None of the delegates should be counted, would that really be the end of the farking world?

Uncommitted = Obama

Though I do agree, in a perfect world those delegates wouldn't be counted and the voters would take it out on who was responsible, their elected officials.

Headso: How do they figure Obama gets any at all? he wasn't even on the ballot?

None of the delegates should be counted, would that really be the end of the farking world?

I'm a MI voter and I completely agree with you. on voting day it was understood that the votes wouldn't count. to change that retroactively is ridiculous.
as far as I can tell, it's only the hillary support making a big deal out of this. not surprising really.

the clinton campaign's 'concern' over this situation is insulting and is one of the main reasons I can hardly stand her anymore.

As a Michigan Resident, and voter, I'd like to see our delegates not count. Send a delegation, let them participate according to all the other rules, but don't accept their votes for the nominee.

1) the DNC warned the State they would lose seating if they moved up
2) the State moves up the primaries anyway.
3) The DNC removes seating, the GOP cuts them in half.


And that's just the start of this crap. Without any delegates in the DNC, many voters voted in the GOP primary, and those who did vote in the Dem Primary only had Hillary, Kucinich, and Gravel (I think) to choose from. Her claiming any victory is a total fraud.

If Michigan wants to be seated, they better hold an open caucus - to allow those who already voted GOP (because a Dem vote was 100% meaningless) to come back, and for a true HC/BO balance.

Hillary, Granholm, and the Party leadership in both the MIDems and DNC can suck my balls if they think they can just whine loud enough and get what they want.

Meh.

But it's STUPID.

Consider this. In Georgia, a slightly smaller and decidedly more Republican state, 1.06 million people voted in the Democratic Primary. In Michigan, fewer than 600,000 did.

Hillary got 330,000 votes in Georgia. This translated to 27 delegates.

Hillary only got 328,000 votes in Michigan. Against Dennis Kucinich and None Of The Above. And she's going to get 69 delegates for that?

Again, meh. Reasonably amiable, and doesn't help her one damned bit. But, if the Michigan votes were enough to get her the nom, when the attractive and successful people of Detroit weren't able to vote for Obama? Damn, that'd be some ugly.

One of the pundits on TV made a good point the other night: That if Michigan and Florida are allowed to break the rules this time, it will set a precedent for other, possibly even larger states to try it in 2012.

fark it, why not have the primaries in 2010?

How can a candidate that wasn't on the ballot get awarded delegates? The only option that would make sense is a re-vote.

Don't do it, goddammit. Just sit this one out, idiots in the capital.

Michigan Dems don't seem to have gotten the memo that the DNC is farking pissed off at them and really doesn't seem to give a shiat what they think.

MI and FL can come up with all the plans they want, but if the DNC doesn't seat them, then those plans won't matter one damn bit.

Personally, I'm torn. On one side I'm fine with them being seated because it won't impact Obama's nomination one bit, and might help him in November since you'll have a smaller number of pissed off MI and FL Dems.

On the other hand? Fark them. If they aren't punished, what's to prevent any state from doing what it damn well pleases in 4 years? I don't think we need to add more chaos to the Democratic Primaries.

It's funny if the idiots in these two states that decided to move up their primaries had just waited and gone at their scheduled times then they'd have been voting when it mattered most in this election. Hopefully that fact won't be lost on the states in 4 years and they stay in line.

As a Michigander, I have to agree 100% with the person on freep.com who made this comment:

"MI residents had no difficulty comprehending that our votes weren't going to count. Knowing that, some registered voters stayed home, others voted for people they never would have chosen had they had a full slate to choose from. So now, the same folks who let our delegates be taken from us, have decided to DEMAND our votes count. Grow up and play by the rules...this kind of crap is exactly what needs to stop. How about manning up to accept the consequences for your choices."

That's the biggest bunch of horseshiat I've ever seen in my life.

On voting day it was stated "hey this doesn't matter". Just don't sit the delegates, or split their votes fifty fifty. Any other way is unconscionable.

What I find rather odd is that the Obama camp never says anything about this.

At what point shouldn't he stand up and say "We were told the election was illegal so we didn't put our names on the ballot because we aren't dishonest."

Anything other than none of the delegates counting is bullshiat.

The state Democratic Party was told exactly what would happen if they held their primary on that date. They did it anyway. Too bad.

At the time there were more than two people running, so you can't just say that "undecided" means Obama. The simple fact that everyone agreed to take their names off the ballot except Hillary tells you all you need to know about her. The DNC should grow a pair and tell Michigan "too bad, so sad." The residents of the state of Michigan should then throw the local officials who caused the mess out of power.

Note to self: When the DNC sets rules I can completely ignore them and get away with it.

as a Michigan resident I plan on voting against every Democrat I can link to the scheduling of this horseshiat primary.

Ed Finnerty


Note to self: When the DNC sets rules I can completely ignore them and get away with it.


Remember that we're dealing with the Clintons here. They reserve the right to ignore the rules at any time, even after endorsing the rules when they were created.

Motor_Head: As a Michigander, I have to agree 100% with the person on freep.com who made this comment:

Freeper.

/jk, jk

Whatever happens, I hope it happens soon so Hillary will STFU GTFO and GBTW in the Senate.

Motor_Head: As a Michigander, I have to agree 100% with the person on freep.com who made this comment:

"MI residents had no difficulty comprehending that our votes weren't going to count. Knowing that, some registered voters stayed home, others voted for people they never would have chosen had they had a full slate to choose from. So now, the same folks who let our delegates be taken from us, have decided to DEMAND our votes count. Grow up and play by the rules...this kind of crap is exactly what needs to stop. How about manning up to accept the consequences for your choices."

right. and i agree with the idea that the thing about "disenfranchised voters" in mi and fl is just a load of crap scare tactic from the clinton camp. mi and florida can be pissed at their local officials for causing the situation, but they have no right to be pissed at obama or howard dean for "refusing to seat the delegates" that everyone agreed wouldn't even exist.

Yup, more and more like Bush every day.
"The rules are what I say they are!"

Rovian: How can a candidate that wasn't on the ballot get awarded delegates? The only option that would make sense is a re-vote.

How can you count an illegal ballot?

Sir Roderick Glossop: cranberryzero: she doesn't deserve dick.

Stop right there. No more else needs to be said.

/50-50 or STFU and GTFU you bunch of rule-breaking cry babies.

No no no. While I agree with you 100%, you're idea is won't work in reality.

Let me state again, in clear terms: Michigan and Flordia knowingly broke the rules and therefore should be punished. Both primaries were not "free, fair, and open," especially Michigan.

HOWEVER - the DNC KNOWS they need to do something. And I think the DNC's (and Howard Dean's) main concern is NOT "disenfranchising" the Michigan voters. The DNC's main concern is DISARMING Hillary Clinton.
A couple of things to remember:
1. The afformentioned "nuclear option" where Clinton's people hold a LOT of sway over the Democratic Rules and Bylaws Committee. Theoretically, they could push through a measure to seat Michigan and Flordia AS IS.

2. The Clinton camp is NOT going to agree to a 50-50 split.

Therefore a compromise needs to be reached and it needs to be reached SOON.

According to this plan, Clinton nets 10 delegates as opposed to 18-20 (depending on whose camp you ask). With Obama's lead, a net loss of 10 delegates isn't as important as the total number of delegates he'd gain. I get the feeling that Obama will be gaining Superdelegates in a steady trickle over the next few weeks. This will erase any gain Clinton gets from a Michigan compromise.

So, what's important to Obama is getting closer to the finish line, be it 2025, 2209, or somewhere in between. Obama is only a few steps away. We all know it's nearly impossible for Clinton to catch up, so spot her a few points. By this compramise, Obama actually "gains" 4 delegates since he would be awarded 59 delegates as opposed to 55. That's four steps closer to the finish line.

This plan disarms Clinton in the sense that she can't use the "Count The Votes" arguement, she can't say that the voters were "disenfranchised" as she is still given a victory, and she can't use the nuclear option if the delegates are already seated.

If I'm Obama's camp I agree to this right now. My fear is that CLINTON will fight against this. Although, she has no good argument since she'd still be given a 10 delegate victory in a completely unfair primary where she was the only candidate on the ballot.

If I'm Obama's camp I start putting the pressure on Clinton to agree to this plan.

/subby

Tigger: What I find rather odd is that the Obama camp never says anything about this.

At what point shouldn't he stand up and say "We were told the election was illegal so we didn't put our names on the ballot because we aren't dishonest."

Because he doesn't have to. He has already won the nomination.

If you seat any of their delegates, the next presidential primary will start in 2009, with the first primary in January 2010, and no doubt we'll see Hilary on TV every farking day for the next 4 years.

Don't seat any of them.

Someone should leak this to the Hiallryis44 crowd and post some of their responses...im blocked to them at work here..they are a political activist group...heh..

Tigger: That's the biggest bunch of horseshiat I've ever seen in my life.

On voting day it was stated "hey this doesn't matter". Just don't sit the delegates, or split their votes fifty fifty. Any other way is unconscionable.

What I find rather odd is that the Obama camp never says anything about this.

At what point shouldn't he stand up and say "We were told the election was illegal so we didn't put our names on the ballot because we aren't dishonest."

MI and FL are key to the General Election... you can't just tell them to STFU even though they screwed up. and it wasn't the people that screwed up anyway, it was the politicians.

By the way I just held an election for President in my office. I was the only one on the ballot and it wasn't sanctioned in anyway at all. I did however win a thrilling victory after all the votes were counted, beating off a strong challenge from the half empty pack of marlboro lights on my desk next to me.

I am pleased to accept the office of President. Please send your federal income tax cheques directly to me from now on.

Tigger: By the way I just held an election for President in my office. I was the only one on the ballot and it wasn't sanctioned in anyway at all. I did however win a thrilling victory after all the votes were counted, beating off a strong challenge from the half empty pack of marlboro lights on my desk next to me.

I am pleased to accept the office of President. Please send your federal income tax cheques directly to me from now on.

HEYY I want my vote for the smokes to count too!!!

Because he doesn't have to.

Makes sense I suppose.

It just increases the 'Hillary is a shrill whiny liar" perception without him having to do anything.

Lurking Fear: If you seat any of their delegates, the next presidential primary will start in 2009, with the first primary in January 2010, and no doubt we'll see Hilary on TV every farking day for the next 4 years.

Don't seat any of them.

I say seat them, but they are not allowed to vote on the nomination. They can vote on everything else and have full participation in everything but the nomination for POTUS.

PowerSlacker:
Remember that we're dealing with the Clintons here. They reserve the right to ignore the rules at any time, even after endorsing the rules when they were created.

True. I just wish the DNC would've stuck to their guns on this. It sets a very bad precedent.

Weaver95: Rovian: How can a candidate that wasn't on the ballot get awarded delegates? The only option that would make sense is a re-vote.

How can you count an illegal ballot?

How was it illegal?

cranberryzero: she's been acting like the loud biatchy woman in front of you at wal-mart who knows damn well she isn't entitled to a return on her stretch pants but yells at the manager relentlessly anyway until they give her store credit just to shut her up and get her out of the store.

Excellent analogy.

Son_Dee: By this compramise, Obama actually "gains" 4 delegates since he would be awarded 59 delegates as opposed to 55. That's four steps closer to the finish line.

/subby

Who taught you math?? Adding in the Michigan delegates to the 'finish line' total and giving him less than 50% moves him further BACK from the required total.

Ryan2065: Weaver95: Rovian: How can a candidate that wasn't on the ballot get awarded delegates? The only option that would make sense is a re-vote.

How can you count an illegal ballot?

How was it illegal?

They broke their own rules. break rules = illegal.