it's the same as when they ask why the wright story won't die. skynet will become self-aware before the 24-hour news networks do.

Okay, I'll play. Because he's a cracker? Everyone knows crackers put a brutha down.

/see how fun this is?
//rolls eyes

Easy: because he's a dottering old fool and doesn't know any better.

Not that this pastor nonsense is in any way important, but being endorsed by somebody and attending their sermons for 20 years are two entirely different things.

And lest we forget, Barack is a secret Muslim.

/as far as I know...

Because Obama was in Wright's congregation for 20 years. Then again, McCain has pandered for the support of some pretty vile characters and is perfectly happy accepting their words and their support for political gain.

yes, they are.

one preacher hates war...the other one wants to start ww3.

-guess which one is for war?

evidently, peace doesn't go over well in "these here americas".

-here's a clue...a true man of god does NOT advocate war.

nekom: Not that this pastor nonsense is in any way important, but being endorsed by somebody and attending their sermons for 20 years are two entirely different things.

yes, but that blade cuts both ways.

only one of those relationships is in any way politically based. only one would suggest caring what the preacher says in the political arena. that would be the one where a political endorsement was directly involved, and in fact, sought out.

however, neither matter, because i highly doubt either obama or mccain would go to their respective pastor for any type of input on policy decisions.

IOKIYAR

It's been pointed out already, but it's because he's white. Plain and simple.

burndtdan: however, neither matter, because i highly doubt either obama or mccain would go to their respective pastor for any type of input on policy decisions.

You're right, neither ACTUALLY matter, although both will be perceived as important by some people. I'm just saying that to be fair, they are two different animals.

Because Obama was in Wright's congregation for 20 years.

I keep hearing this, and still am unsure what exactly this means.

The way it is most often presented practically suggests that Obama not only sat front and center for each and every service, but may very well have actually written many of the worst sermons. (And shouldn't there be an awful lot more horrifying sermons from the past 20 years if this frightening negro is as terrible an America-hating, let's-get-whitey radical racist as we're being told again and again that he is? Just wondering.)

Most (hell, ALL) of the people I know that have been in some congregation for 20+ years have a much less rigorous attendance record, and couldn't tell you an awful lot about what their "spiritual leader" actually said. Even when (especially when) the words were particularly critical of the world as it is compared to how it should be, if you were to take Jesus at his word about doing unto others, etc, etc.

It's a trap

Supporters choose you and you choose your church.

Obama stayed at Wright's church because it was politically advantageous.That choice is now biting him in the ass.

bmr68: Supporters choose you and you choose your church.

Except in this case, McCain did actively seek the endorsement of people like Hagee, so it's fair to say that McCain chose.

co-conspirator: I keep hearing this, and still am unsure what exactly this means.

Well, in both books he talks of Reverend Wright and the man's impact on him. "The Audacity of Hope" is taken from a sermon of Wright's. Obama was raised in a secular household by non-practicing Baptists/Methodists, so joining Trinity church was his own decision upon adulthood.

Personally, I don't really care about his pastor because I'm willing to believe Obama and I think his views are quite clearly separate from some of the more outlandish things that we are inundated with through 20 second sound bites. But, to say that Obama probably didn't show up too much and he probably didn't know what the person actually said all those years...that's probably a tad bit disingenuous. That's the only thing I have trouble with because I don't see how that could've happened.

nekom: Not that this pastor nonsense is in any way important, but being endorsed by somebody and attending their sermons for 20 years are two entirely different things.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it your argument that McCain gets a pass on scrutiny because Obama attended Wright's church? Because somehow, Obama's past affects McCain's past?

Whamdangler: Because somehow, Obama's past affects McCain's past?

Obama-McCain Quantum Entanglement Theory

/it's complicated

Well, in both books he talks of Reverend Wright and the man's impact on him

Yet we never hear the particulars of this impact discussed. Only the assumption that he must be some sort of glassy-eyed disciple who agrees with Wright's every word. I can't help but feel that this is part of the "20 years" strategy.

But, to say that Obama probably didn't show up too much and he probably didn't know what the person actually said all those years

Supposedly his attendance has been sporadic the past several years, as he spends most of his time out of state, and has missed much of Wright's growing lunacy, which is at odds with his earlier influence.

Whamdangler: Correct me if I am wrong, but is it your argument that McCain gets a pass on scrutiny because Obama attended Wright's church? Because somehow, Obama's past affects McCain's past?

All I'm saying is that Obama attended a church where a controversial preacher often spoke, whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by some controversial preachers. They're not exactly the same thing, that's all.

All I'm saying is that Obama attended a church where a controversial preacher often spoke, whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by some controversial preachers. They're not exactly the same thing, that's all.

Out of curiousity, do you have any feelings if one or the other is a "better" action? To me it looks like Obama's inertia versus McCain's active solicitation of radical theocrats.

But I'd be much happier if invisible sky guy and his supporters kept the hell out of politics. I do not believe, even for a second, that's a popular or even realistic view, however.

co-conspirator: Out of curiousity, do you have any feelings if one or the other is a "better" action? To me it looks like Obama's inertia versus McCain's active solicitation of radical theocrats.

But I'd be much happier if invisible sky guy and his supporters kept the hell out of politics. I do not believe, even for a second, that's a popular or even realistic view, however.

I'm not sure whether McCain solicited their support or not, and I really don't care about Obama's wacky pastor either. I grew up going to a United Methodist church, and the layspeaker (member of the congregation who fills in when the preacher man is sick) pretty much flat out said that Catholics are all going to hell, among other wacky things, so I know how that goes, and don't buy into the whole `guilt by association' thing with either Obama or McCain.

Endorsements though, aren't necessarily desired. What if the Westboro Baptist church endorsed McCain, or the American Communist Party endorsed Obama? They wouldn't want the endorsement, but they can't stop them from doing it.

nekom: whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by actively seeked the endorsement of some controversial preachers

FTFY

burndtdan: it's the same as when they ask why the wright story won't die. skynet will become self-aware before the 24-hour news networks do.

Heh. Doesn't Murdoch's NewsCorp also own Sky, the European TV channel?

nekom: All I'm saying is that Obama attended a church where a controversial preacher often spoke, whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by some controversial preachers. They're not exactly the same thing, that's all.

OK, we can simplify the question, then. Since they are different things altogether, we can remove one from the other, giving us: Why does McCain get a pass on scrutiny over his religious backers?

verbal_jizm: nekom: whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by actively seeked sought the endorsement of some controversial preachers

FTFY

FTFY

Whamdangler: OK, we can simplify the question, then. Since they are different things altogether, we can remove one from the other, giving us: Why does McCain get a pass on scrutiny over his religious backers?

I think the better question is why DOESN'T Obama? I'm sure somewhere there is a convicted sex offender who is likely to vote for McCain, and another for Obama. So it can be said that they back him. And what does it mean? Nothing.

burndtdan: only one of those relationships is in any way politically based. only one would suggest caring what the preacher says in the political arena. that would be the one where a political endorsement was directly involved, and in fact, sought out.

Actually, Obama specifically joined the Trinity United church on purpose. It is THE seat for black power in the Chicagoland. If you're black and trying to be in power in Chicago, if you're ain't Trinity, you ain't. If he wanted to "get ahead" in politics, he needed to be in that church...

Maybe it's because Wright criticizes America whereas McCain's supporters criticize Islam and the Catholic Church? That probably has a lot to do with it. Right or wrong, you usually suffer more ire and backlash if you are perceived as trashing your own country.

Case in point: Dixie Chicks

madmann: Easily fixed through the Healing Power Of Jebus & Neosporin™.

OMG, I just saw Jesus in the Band-Aids!!!

/runs away screaming

|| Why does McCain get a pass on scrutiny over his religious backers?

I think the better question is why DOESN'T Obama?

Agreed. However you can't unring a bell. Therefore let's hold everyone to the same standard, just to show how brain-meltingly stupid the whole topic has gotten. Then maybe it'll die and we can get back to reality.

dj_bigbird: Actually, Obama specifically joined the Trinity United church on purpose. It is THE seat for black power in the Chicagoland. If you're black and trying to be in power in Chicago, if you're ain't Trinity, you ain't. If he wanted to "get ahead" in politics, he needed to be in that church...

ah yes, blind conjecture built entirely on circumstantial evidence, if any evidence at all.

good work.

bmr68: Obama stayed at Wright's church because it was politically advantageous.That choice is now biting him in the ass.

McCain actively sought out the support of hateful, bigoted pastors for political benefit.

Shouldn't his as get a good chewing?

To be fair, McCain won't remember anything Hagee said after a day or two.

John McCain (2000): Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right.

John McCain (2007):

Lionel Mandrake: bmr68: Obama stayed at Wright's church because it was politically advantageous.That choice is now biting him in the ass.

McCain actively sought out the support of hateful, bigoted pastors for political benefit.

Shouldn't his as get a good chewing?

I've consistently criticized McCain for that. What the Obama fanatics can't seem to admit is that his association with Wright is troubling. It's either minimized, or met with a "B-b-but McCain!" response. Drinking all that Kool-Aid may taste good, kids, but it will rot your teeth eventually.

Looks like someone's getting canned at Fox News.

Ironic question, considering Fox News built their ratings off of said wacky religious supporters.

cousin-merle: John McCain (2000): Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right.

I think he knows why he lost in 2000, then attempted to fix that the second time around. Our only hope if he gets elected is that he is quietly still thinking like he was in 2000 and will be that guy again in office. But I'm not about to vote for him on it.

One thing's for certain about Rev. Wright: He's a definite sign that Obama didn't become a Christian just to get votes. Otherwise he certainly would have gone to church with a quieter pastor.

Stinky McButt: It's been pointed out already, but it's because he's white. Plain and simple.

"White" people getting a pass in the media.



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Nancy Pelosi may have committed a felony when she went to Syria. Quick: Someone call Patrick Fitzgerald. He'll surely be just as fair as he was with Scooter Libby (403)

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Speaker of the House Pelosi should be charged with a felony because of "she carried on both correspondence and intercourse with Syria." Giggity (48)




Too much to link




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link Link

White.A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

Oh Noes!

Nabb1: I've consistently criticized McCain for that. What the Obama fanatics can't seem to admit is that his association with Wright is troubling. It's either minimized, or met with a "B-b-but McCain!" response. Drinking all that Kool-Aid may taste good, kids, but it will rot your teeth eventually.

so what would you have people say that don't give a shiat about wright or any of mccain's preachers? they are going to minimize wright's importance, because they honestly believe it is minimal.

why would they admit to something they adamantly believe is not true? i still have yet to see a single real reason that the wright story matters. even if they were bosom buddies, unless you could give me some reason to believe obama will ever ask for wright's advice in performing his duties as president, then it will never be very important.

McCain gets the free pass for now because the media is more interested in the Democrat primaries, once the Democrats get around to deciding who is going to be their nominee...maybe sometime this decade... then McCain will get equal treatment, right now who cares about McCain when the Deomcrats are more intgeresting to watch?

There's an excellent article in the NYT today asking the same question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04rich.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Two reasons, I think:

1. A longstanding relationship between a political candidate and a firebrand pastor. McCain didn't attend Hagee's church for 20 years, did he? I am an Obama supporter and I feel that the issue has been dealt with in motherfarking spades (no pun intended), it's wasn't a complete non-issue. Obama associated with the guy voluntarily for a long time.

2. Change frightens people, ergo a desire for the status quo (also, ergo a Bush election in 2004). Even though it's beyond retarded to believe that Obama a) hates America, b) is a black supremacist, c) is racist, the media needs to feed this kind of shiat because negative campaigns are all we're used to. There's very little else that people can negatively paint Obama with, so this comes out over and over again.

Silver lining: if Obama wins the nomination (I say if because I don't doubt the stupidity of the American people), at least this crap will have been dealt with so that the same response can be given to any down-syndrome-having-retard that brings it up again.

cousin-merle: To be fair, McCain won't remember anything Hagee said after a day or two.

John McCain (2000): Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right.

John McCain (2007):

Was this before or after he told McCain to "kiss the ring, b*tch!"?

Seriously, I'm getting quite a kick out of all these McCain apologists who will scream bloody murder on Rev. Wright, but claim that Hagee's bullshiat is a non-issue.

burndtdan: why would they admit to something they adamantly believe is not true? i still have yet to see a single real reason that the wright story matters. even if they were bosom buddies, unless you could give me some reason to believe obama will ever ask for wright's advice in performing his duties as president, then it will never be very important.

I think it raises doubts about his sincerity and his character, which he seems to be running on. I think it goes to his trustworthiness and his judgment. If he allies himself with a loon like Wright for two decades for political gain and then casts him off when he is through, I think that says something. I don't think the last six weeks have revealed anything about Wright that Obama didn't already know. I think the problem was it revealed that maybe Wright's rantings weren't so isolated and he really did harbor those views if he gets up and rambles on about them in public when he knows everything that comes out of his mouth is going to get massive amounts of national press and could damage his friend and protege.

jbernie: McCain will get equal treatment

I doubt it. Much like Hillary, McCain has a boat-load of shiat that isnt covered on TV. Compare the epic Hillary meltdown that happened over months to TV coverage. At best we had the coverage of the sniper fire. To add insult over injury on that, reporters joked about that story for months before the internets broke the story for everyone.

Good going on the fair coverage. Meanwhile, we're continuing with the festival of Wrights while we have pressing concerns.

nekom: Whamdangler: Correct me if I am wrong, but is it your argument that McCain gets a pass on scrutiny because Obama attended Wright's church? Because somehow, Obama's past affects McCain's past?

All I'm saying is that Obama attended a church where a controversial preacher often spoke, whereas McCain has been supported or endorsed by some controversial preachers. They're not exactly the same thing, that's all.

Neither you or I attended the church over the past twenty years. We have seen the most radical sermon from late last year. Neither of us know what went on in that church.

I know, for instance, that the church I went to growing up only RECENTLY started being vocally political, anti-abortion, intolerant, etc. I'd say this is the current climate and church politics is a new millennium thing, but I'd be writing fiction just like you guys. Seriously, though, I wanted to beat the shiat out of the priest who brought up gay marriage during my friend's wedding.

GavinTheAlmighty: McCain didn't attend Hagee's church for 20 years, did he?

You're right, he just spent several years calling Hagee's ilk hatemongers. That might be a valid argument, except that a reasonable person would infer from the complete 180 that John McCain believes what Hagee is preaching.