Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are seen as better able to handle health care, the economy, taxes, the mortgage crisis, higher prices for gasoline and food, consumer confidence, fiscal policy, civil rights, and national dignity. McCain does better than either Clinton or Obama on ensuring that Mexicans and terrorists don't get jobs doing landscaping for $10 / hour.

FTFCNN.

What do the mean by "immigration"? People think McCain will be harder on Illegal immigrants? People are farking morons, do they pay NO attention at all to what a candidate has actually said?

RemyDuron: What do the mean by "immigration"? People think McCain will be harder on Illegal immigrants? People are farking morons, do they pay NO attention at all to what a candidate has actually said?

TV media coverage is so bad now that topics that used to be dismissed by some people as "diversionary" arent even being covered any more.

Its a new low

War buddies:

cousin-merle:



I see what you did there.

RemyDuron: What do the mean by "immigration"?

Sadly, most of the people "protesting immigration" probably have no idea. It's not unlike the "family values" uproar of the early 90s; I distinctly remember a pundit on CNN asking another pundit "So are you FOR or AGAINST family values?".

So we can either die in a fire from terrorism and be rich, or be poor and safe? Mmmm... decisions, decisions.

lexnaturalis: So we can either die in a fire from terrorism and be rich, or be poor and safe? Mmmm... decisions, decisions.

I'll take the option of being Canadian and watching and laughing at your election process from the sidelines.

Until you start rolling tanks in for our Water/Oil/Lumber/Uranium/Diamonds etc. Then I'll go Iron Man on your ass (the dream of any engineer)

Poll: 70 percent in U.S. say things are going badly

Sucks to be the US.

Or, more accurately, McCain is leading among voters who don't like brown people, and the Democrats are leading among voters who care about real issues.

Richard Pye: Poll: 70 percent in U.S. say things are going badly

70% of the people say it's going badly and 44% of them want it to go even worse by voting McCain in, GO AMERICA!

Listening to McCain and Clinton these days is like having my ears buggered by a man wearing a sandpaper condom. Obama's not much better and I wish it would end!

/supported McCain in 2000

Bored Horde
I'll take the option of being Canadian and watching and laughing at your election process from the sidelines.

Hey, at least we don't have a queen, or a legislature whose upper house is entirely appointed and has a minimum property requirement for membership.

70 percent in U.S. say things are going badly

And why can we not impeach the @ssholes now?

obzerver: 70 percent in U.S. say things are going badly

And why can we not impeach the @ssholes now?

You do realize Pelose would be Pres.?

blade1228: And why can we not impeach the @ssholes now?

You do realize Pelose would be Pres.?

Not my first choice, but an improvement.

You do realize Pelose would be Pres.?

Just keeping the seat warm for a few months until Obama gets there.

El_Dan: Or, more accurately, McCain is leading among voters who don't like brown people, and the Democrats are leading among voters who care about real issues.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking too.

I'm not trying to be snarky, this is a serious question...how does pissing off 90% of the rest of the world make us safer? Where do people get the idea that "kill 'em all" is a better policy than maybe talking to someone?

As for immigration, we've already tried sending them back, we've already tried patrolling the border...it doesn't work. Maybe it's time to try something crazy like actually offering them a reason to come in legally. I believe we should stop offering handouts for one thing. If they aren't gonna pay taxes they do not deserve help. Make all assistance (government, non-profit, etc) and all financial institutions require proof of citizenship. Offer an amnesty program where illegal immigrants can come forward and apply for citizenship, but do not give them a reason not to apply.

McCain 2008: Because the Apocalypse is too important to leave to chance

How in God's name could anyone believe that McCain is the best choice to fight terrorism and al Qaeda? He's consistently supported the Iraqi disaster that has diverted attention from Afghanistan and the tribal regions of Pakistan, as well as inflaming hatred for America in further regions of the Middle East. It's because of people like him that al Qaeda and the Taliban are regrouping even now.

And Clinton leading on doing whatever it takes to sucker people into voting for her

El_Dan: Or, more accurately, McCain is leading among voters who don't like brown people, and the Democrats are leading among voters who care about real issues.

Illegal immigration is a very real issue. I don't personally see it as something more important than, say, the economy, but let's not pretend it's just xenophobes.

Besides, I honestly think it could be fixed easily--just create enormous penalties for employing illegal immigrants. Problem solved.

It is astonishing to me that people trust McCain on immigration though. Seriously, you guyswant the man who the Right referes to as Juan McAmnesty to lead the fight against illegal immigration?

NubianzWithAttitude: McCain 2008: Because the Apocalypse is too important to leave to chance

The men in the smoke-filled back room called... they "ask" that you quit hitting so close to the mark.

Poopspasm: El_Dan: Or, more accurately, McCain is leading among voters who don't like brown people, and the Democrats are leading among voters who care about real issues.

Illegal immigration is a very real issue. I don't personally see it as something more important than, say, the economy, but let's not pretend it's just xenophobes.

Besides, I honestly think it could be fixed easily--just create enormous penalties for employing illegal immigrants. Problem solved.

It is astonishing to me that people trust McCain on immigration though. Seriously, you guyswant the man who the Right referes to as Juan McAmnesty to lead the fight against illegal immigration?

Perhaps the American people prefer McCain's stance on immigration, and want amnesty.

Didn't all three vote for the compromise immigration bill? I thought it was a good policy, so I'm cool with all three on immigration (mostly), but it seems like people are fairly stupid if they think any candidate is going to do anything significantly different from the other two.

Remove all Republicans

I think just making them all citizens goes a little too far on the issue. Open up immigration policy significantly, making it considerably easy to apply and receive citizenship, while also increasing the number of temporary work visas. That seems to be the most sensible policy on illegal immigration.

Oh, and increase economic cooperation within the Americas. CAFTA was good policy, but we need greater investment in Latin America to adequately combat undocumented migration.

Hopefully, North and South America will one day work within something similar to the European Union. I mean, the possibilities for investment and economic growth are staggering! If Latin America can get its political shiat together, the region will be ripe for economic growth. Plus, we'd no longer have to worry about this visa bullshiat. The benefits for everyone, I think, make the whole project worthwhile.

But that's a long way off.

/Wow, I got really off topic there.

Poopspasm: Besides, I honestly think it could be fixed easily--just create enormous enforce the penalties already on the books for employing illegal immigrants. Problem solved.

Terrorism is a great big boogeyman which is played upon for political and military gain. For farks sake, it doesn't even compare on the same level of an existential threat to our western civilization that the soviets (another boogeyman) and their thousands of nuclear weapons were for the last 50 years.

NubianzWithAttitude: McCain 2008: Because the Apocalypse is too important to leave to chance

Democrats have been singing this song as far back as I can remember (i.e. Reagan) every presidential election, and we've managed to elect 3 Republicans for a total of 20 years, and yet we're not wandering around a nuclear wasteland. Somehow, this time too, I think we'll be OK when President McCain takes over.

Oh yeah-he IS going to win. And not by a hair, either...Obama is damaged goods, and it's not going to get any better for him between now and November.

I believe we should stop offering handouts for one thing. If they aren't gonna pay taxes they do not deserve help. Make all assistance (government, non-profit, etc) and all financial institutions require proof of citizenship.

That's racist...

... is what I'd say if I were a Democrat.

But I'm not so I'll say "THIS".

loser_death_spiral: That's racist...

... is what I'd say if I were a Democrat.

But I'm not so I'll say "THIS".

That's not racist - I agree with that completely...and I'm a Democrat.

/more accurately: anti-Republican, so basically Dem by default.
//but stereotypes and generalizations do make life easier, don't they?

McCain is not a standout choice. However, he is the best of the three choices we have. Disregard the fact that Hillary and Obama are all about big government and entitlement programs. The single most important issue in the world today is the Middle East problem.

If Obama or Hillary were elected today, and tomorrow they said, "You know what, we farked up. We're sorry, we came here under a bullshiat premise, we are leaving." Do any of you honestly think they would leave us alone? As a service member who has served multiple tours in Iraq, I can assure you that is not the case. Whether we like it or not, for whatever reason we got involved in this part of the world, this is a fight to the death, and nothing but the utter extinction of one side or the other is going to put the issue to rest. Sticking one's head under the covers does not make the boogeyman go away. Radical Islam has chosen us for its personification of all that is evil and rotten in the world, and no amount of protestations to the contrary by us is going to change their minds. Pulling out of this area, showing the world we can be pushed and intimidated, will not make terrorism or radicals go away either. Don't think for a second that Chavez in Venezuela, Kim Jong-il in North Korea, and Ahmadinejad in Iran aren't watching this with intense interest, just looking for the slightest sign of opportunity.

So, for all the Obama supporters out there (and I address you because Hillary has no realistic chance to win her party's nomination): He has repeatedly said that he would have a "chat" with dissidents, such as the president of Iran. When that "chat" fails, as it assuredly will, what is he going to do then?

Obama's coming, open wide Washington.

My oh my how times have changed.

jason_subsea: When that "chat" fails, as it assuredly will, what is he going to do then?


I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer that part, but I think the point people miss out the most is the emphasis on diplomacy.

Both Hillary and McCain seem to be under the assumption that our standing in the world is not at all tarnished or that our military is not stretched thin, so we can make demands and threats and actually back them up.

Would Obama have to resort to using force or economic pressure against Iran, etc. when diplomacy fails? Probably. But I don't think you can just write-off these countries as being unable to work with us right off the bat. I'd rather him try diplomacy and fail than to just give Iran the cold shoulder and let them use that position against us and become a bigger and worse threat.

jason_subsea: Don't think for a second that Chavez in Venezuela, Kim Jong-il in North Korea, and Ahmadinejad in Iran aren't watching this with intense interest, just looking for the slightest sign of opportunity.

They won't invade us. We need to leave Iraqnam & shore up our own economy.

Poopspasm: It is astonishing to me that people trust McCain on immigration though. Seriously, you guyswant the man who the Right referes to as Juan McAmnesty to lead the fight against illegal immigration?

It's quite simple.

Rush, Coulter, Malkin, and Hannity all hate McCain and they all say it's because he's horrible on immigration. They also hate him on his anti-torture stance (which I'm not sure if he's still taking).

Their core listeners know it's impossible for those talking heads to hate the Republican candidate because otherwise it would just be the "libs" taking over.

So, with "Republicans always right" and "What talking heads say is vitally important" both being considered true and the words "illegal immigration" being said over and over, McCain must be the candidate who is strong on illegal immigration.

Pillager: jason_subsea: Don't think for a second that Chavez in Venezuela, Kim Jong-il in North Korea, and Ahmadinejad in Iran aren't watching this with intense interest, just looking for the slightest sign of opportunity.

They won't invade us. We need to leave Iraqnam let Iran take over Iraq and set up another proxy state like Syria & shore up our own economy.

Same thing.

jason_subsea: Whether we like it or not, for whatever reason we got involved in this part of the world, this is a fight to the death, and nothing but the utter extinction of one side or the other is going to put the issue to rest.

Neat. A call for genocide.

jake3988: My oh my how times have changed.

Not really. People are still gullible as hell.

jason_subsea: Radical Islam has chosen us for its personification of all that is evil and rotten in the world, and no amount of protestations to the contrary by us is going to change their minds. Pulling out of this area, showing the world we can be pushed and intimidated, will not make terrorism or radicals go away either. Don't think for a second that Chavez in Venezuela, Kim Jong-il in North Korea, and Ahmadinejad in Iran aren't watching this with intense interest, just looking for the slightest sign of opportunity.

So what you're proposing is endless war? That will ruin this country more assuredly than pulling out of Iraq or engaging diplomatically with Iran.

You see, this war is spun in the Islamic world as a crusade against their religion and culture. The longer this war goes on, the more radicals are created, thus we must continue or expand the war, resulting in more radicalization...see where this is going? Endless escalation of war, while America crumbles domestically. Do you think there will ever be a day when someone says "Hey! We just killed the last radical Muslim! All the Muslims remaining are moderates! Let's go home now!"??

Bush may have literally ruined this country, but continuously electing Presidents who continue or expand upon Bushian policy will definitely ruin this country.

Third Day Mark: Obama's coming, open wide Washington.

They have gotten good at taking things, I'm sure he will fit right in.

/pun intended
//thanks for asking

Note to self: check person's profile before wasting time on a response.

If the account is one day old, and he comes into a thread espousing genocide, he may just be a troll.

SU: Terrorism is a great big boogeyman which is played upon for political and military gain. For farks sake, it doesn't even compare on the same level of an existential threat to our western civilization that the soviets (another boogeyman) and their thousands of nuclear weapons were for the last 50 years.

Fear = Control.

McCain leading on terrorism, immigration.

In other words, McCain is "winning" in the Grasping at Phantoms category.

Terrorism will never be "won" as long as we are an antagonistic and meddlesome nation.

Immigration will never be "won" until we punish the sons-of-biatches that hire the illegals.

If Obama or Hillary were elected today, and tomorrow they said, "You know what, we farked up. We're sorry, we came here under a bullshiat premise, we are leaving." Do any of you honestly think they would leave us alone?

It worked for Reagan I guess when he told the Marines to run away out of Lebanon.

Diplomacy is fine as far as it goes, but we are well beyond that point now. At this point war in the Middle East (to borrow a headline from FARK) is like sex with Kobie Bryant, kick and scream all you want, its going to happen. We can either take care of the situation while we have the assets in place to do it, or lose infinately more men, equipment, and treasure when our attempts at pacification fail. And pacification is exactly what it will be.

No rational person would suggest that this is not a daunting task. Some would even say it is impossible. It is a fight that must be fought, however. Every generation has a task or role to play in the greater scheme. Our grandfather's was stopping Fascism. Our father's was civil rights. Ours appears to be halting radical Islam. Judging from what we have seen and heard from both Obama and Hillary, and from the multitudes clamoring to vote for them, all I can say is thank goodness Hitler lived in the 40's and not today. We would all be learning the Horst Wessel song now.

To reply to Pillager's post, I don't think for a second Chavez would invade the US. With his country's oil reserves, he doesn't have to. He can add to the havoc of our economy basically at will, and with almost no consequences. Kim Jong-il, on the other hand, would not hesitate for a minute to invade South Korea if he saw a chance, and would do it for no other reason than to solve his overpopulation problem. Finally, a US pullout would allow Ahmadinejad the chance to gather allies (Syria, Egypt) and concentrate fully on Isreal, whose SOP when faced with such an invasion calls for the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Never again indeed.

BravadoGT: Oh yeah-he IS going to win. And not by a hair, either...Obama is damaged goods, and it's not going to get any better for him between now and November.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly comin' to a middle."

/Never does seem to get old; does it? :)

Remy
]
What do the mean by "immigration"? People think McCain will be harder on Illegal immigrants? People are farking morons, do they pay NO attention at all to what a candidate has actually said?


Exactly.