The Federal government may in fact owe the people of Guam ~$126 million in war reparations. Without granting Guam statehood or amending the US Constitution , full voting rights not so much.

Sooo...60 years of pouring HUGE money into Guam wasn't enough? Fark that, give it back to the Japanese.

Guam caucuses reject Hillary.

What an Obama Nation!

I want her to come out with a reparations for AA plan - it would be the ultimate pander.

In High School, I knew a girl from Guam. She was HOT.

GaryPDX: Sooo...60 years of pouring HUGE money into Guam wasn't enough? Fark that, give it back to the Japanese.

Is HUGE money bigger than regular money but smaller than enormous money?

Hey, it's Where America's Day Begins.

I refuse to recognize Guam until it admits Hawaii is the superior American SPAM consumer

curmudge: GaryPDX: Sooo...60 years of pouring HUGE money into Guam wasn't enough? Fark that, give it back to the Japanese.

Is HUGE money bigger than regular money but smaller than enormous money?

Regular money is like pennies and dimes. Huge money is like quarters and stuff. Enormous money is dollars.

Regular money is like pennies and dimes. Huge money is like quarters and stuff. Enormous money is dollars.

Thanks Bhasayate: you have just reinforced for me that there is a simple explanation for just about anything available on FARK.

curmudge: GaryPDX: Sooo...60 years of pouring HUGE money into Guam wasn't enough? Fark that, give it back to the Japanese.

Is HUGE money bigger than regular money but smaller than enormous money?

this is huge money



enormous money usually only comes in the form of a check

aaaahhhHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I sure wish I had my own private primary right now just so I could get pandered to by Hillary.

Somebody tell her the name of the government she's wanting to run.

Bhasayate: In High School, I knew a girl from Guam. She was HOT.

I am more interested in this than the primary returns.

/pics?

Also, how exactly is it "justice" to force American taxpayers to pay for Japanese war reparations?

If I was allowed to ask a question of Mrs. Clinton, I don't think I could resist: "Now, you seem to be willing to do almost anything to pander, but given your past reluctance I'm wondering, would you suck dick for a vote?"

wow.... just wow

dont give her any ideas DamnYankees she just might do that on the eve of the NC primary

/at this point i wouldnt put it past her

Only states vote. It's the best way to run a Republic. Guam isn't a state.

When they become a state they can vote and have a congressman.

Churchill2004: Also, how exactly is it "justice" to force American taxpayers to pay for Japanese war reparations?

It's not about "justice," it's about she wants to pay them, and unfortunately for her (and people wanting various reparations on all sides of the WW2) stuff was all officially settled up at various treaties not long after it ended.

Alas, not all the governments that signed them are still around in their current form, and yeah, a lot of individuals never saw anything, but the legal stuff says it's all over and no individuals have standing to sue.

So if a country wants to help some suing group of citizens they have to DIY it.

itazurakko: It's not about "justice," it's about she wants to pay them

I got that part. ;^)

itazurakko: Alas, not all the governments that signed them are still around in their current form

The Japanese and American governments are. Not that I think the Japanese taxpayers should have to pay this, either. Whatever harm was done has long been undone, and most of the people who were harmed are dead.

itazurakko: and yeah, a lot of individuals never saw anything, but the legal stuff says it's all over and no individuals have standing to sue

Which was the only sane solution. The last thing we needed was another Versailles. Punishing individuals who start wars is great. Punishing nations whose governments start wars is collective guilt, and counterproductive to boot.

itazurakko: So if a country wants to help some suing group of citizens they have to DIY it

Which gets back to the original point- how the hell did I get slapped with the moral responsibility to pay for how the Japanese treated the Guamanians 60 year ago?

This has to be a joke...

Reads TFA: Clinton also expressed her support for legislation to offer up to $126 million in reparations to Guam residents for their suffering during World War II at the hands of the Japanese military, which occupied the island.

No. Fukking. Way.

Somewhere, there are some angry Hessians demanding back-pay.

Churchill2004: Which gets back to the original point- how the hell did I get slapped with the moral responsibility to pay for how the Japanese treated the Guamanians 60 year ago?

I think the term "Pander Bear" offered above pretty much covers that.

I was only posting to possibly forestall some of the "XXX countries should pay, not us" stuff that might happen - plenty of people on all sides get very upset that they can't sue, but that's the law.

There was some guy in San Francisco who tried suing Japan for being made to work at what was essentially slave labor in some factory during the war, and he was told the same thing.

Back to TFA I can understand the voting rights thing. But are people even ASKING for these war reparations, or is she just stirring pots that don't need stirred?

She has no shame. How is this anything but an obvious bribe?

I am waiting for those lousy cannucks to pay us back for the White House.

RemyDuron: If I was allowed to ask a question of Mrs. Clinton, I don't think I could resist: "Now, you seem to be willing to do almost anything to pander, but given your past reluctance I'm wondering, would you suck dick for a vote?"

If she would have just given Bill a BJ whenever necessary, I bet Gore would have won.
I think that was all part of her plan- cut off the BJs, make Gore lose, let the Republicans screw up, and get elected.

If she won't suck dick for America, she just isn't patriotic enough to be President.

/America!
//Fark yeah!

It looks like Obama is winning Guam....

Churchill2004: I have a hazy recollection that the citizens of Guam, among others, were promised war reparations at the end of WWII. But the US Government forgave all of Japan's war debt there-by freeing Japan of the obligation to pay the war reparations in question. I could be and probably am mis-remembering the facts of the case. The argument then becomes, does the US government then assume the debt created by the promise of war reparations? I'm neither a historian nor a attorney so without a lot of study I don't have the facts to support either argument. Doctor Clinton is an attorney so perhaps she has looked at the facts of the case and has formed an opinion. However, I suspect that she is just pandering for votes and that she will forget Guam exists once the votes are in.

curmudge: Is HUGE money bigger than regular money but smaller than enormous money?

Close but that's Micronesia, not the Marianas.

itazurakko: There was some guy in San Francisco who tried suing Japan for being made to work at what was essentially slave labor in some factory during the war, and he was told the same thing.

There had to be a cut-off at some point for Japan to reestablish itself as a functioning, internationally accepted nation-state.

itazurakko: Back to TFA I can understand the voting rights thing

I could understand it if she proposed to give them and other territories a voting House seat, though I think it should by grouping all the minor outlying islands into a single Congressional district. Even that still wouldn't get them to the ~600,000 "one man, one vote" level, but it'd be close enough and be a lot fairer than giving them 4 or 5 separate seats.

What I don't understand is giving them Presidential electors. Popular representation is supposed to be in the House, which is why all tax and spending bills have to originate there. The Senate is for representation of actual states, thus the equal representation. The President is actually still elected by the states. Providing territories with Presidential electors but not House representation is a bizzare choice that reflects a fundamental ignorance of the nature of the structure of the Federal government.

And yes, I know that's what they did with DC. That was stupid, too. They should be retroceded to Maryland if they want Congressional representation. That land was specifically given to the Federal government by Maryland to serve as an apolitical seat of government. If that situation has become undesirable due to population growth, the land should be returned to Maryland with a small no-permanent-residency strip of land to include the essential Federal areas like the Capitol, White House, National Mall, and Supreme Court building.



They can't beg small population as an excuse. Statehood or independence.

I want reparations for having seen her lard arse in a pant suit...

Well, that got all mangled.

The final sentence was referring to Puerto Rico. The unmangled version went something like this:

As for Puerto Rico, they should shiat or get off the pot. They can't beg small population as an excuse. Statehood or independence. This quasi-federated nonsense is irrational and has no basis in the Constitution.

Guamanians are smart enough not to fall for this, right? They already got their reparations tenfold by not ever having to pay income tax.

GodsTumor: I want reparations for having seen her lard arse in a pant suit...

I want reparations for having her lardy, do-nothing ass sitting on the US Senate, not helping her constituents in any meaningful way.

It should also be noted that Guam, and every other non-State US territory other than DC and Palmyra Atoll, are not incorporated territories. That means they are legally considered possessions of the US rather than an integral part of the US, and the Constitution only applies to them to the degree that Congress decides. Congress has expanded most Constitutional provisions to these territories, and has provided for their citizenship (except to American Samoa, whose residents are "US nationals" but not "US Citizens" and are thus ineligible to vote or run for office outside American Samoa), but such provisions may still be waived by a simple act of Congress. That applies to Puerto Rico, too.

This would obviously have to be changed before any Congressional/Presidential representation was established.

There's also the issue of the three independent nations (Marshall Islands, Palau, and Micronesia) that were former US-administered UN trust territories. Under the "Compact of Free Association" they've signed with the US, these nations are essentially treated as part of the US by the Federal government, and get hefty sums of money.

I'm so dumb I thought Hillary was all about American Samoa, not this Guam stuff. I was sure I heard her mentioning Samoa not that long ago, but I guess I was wrong.

Japan is now spelled U-S-A, is it?

And voting rights for a sovereign territory that isn't a state?

How about no?


I despise politicians. Particularly the whore-out-the-country-for-votes Democrats like the Hildebeast. I imagine that she's pre-booking the Lincoln Bed & Breakfast right about now.

Shaggy_C: Guamanians are smart enough not to fall for this, right? They already got their reparations tenfold by not ever having to pay income tax.

Actually they do, but by Federal law what they pay goes into a separate Guamanian treasury rather than the US treasury. Income taxes paid by military personnel there actually goes to the Guamanian treasury, too. I think the collection is still done by the IRS, though.

FTFA:

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, has expressed support for the reparations legislation as well.

Still, only $200 million, right?

Let me put on my tinfoil hat for a moment folks.

Hillary doesn't actually care about reparations for Guam; the entire point of this move is bring out the dreaded word of "reparations" into the American discussion once more. She knows that someone will pounce on this, and turn it into a discussion on reparations for slavery.

This will most likely cause people to focus on Obama and whether or not he supports slavery reparations. If he does, some of the loudest mouth breathers will start screaming about him being a radical out of the mainstream on the issue. This along with Rev. Wright will be the stuff of epic campaign ads and slander.

If he is against reparations, it might cause some anger amongst his African American base which could hurt him in some of the future primaries or in the general election.

Hillary will use this manufactured "controversy" at the convention to try and convince the powers that be that because of things like this, it's going to be very difficult for Obama to win over independents and Republicans, as well as have a good grip on the Democratic base.

Crude: And voting rights for a sovereign territory that isn't a state?

Guam isn't sovereign. It's an unincorporated US possession.

Churchill2004: Crude: And voting rights for a sovereign territory that isn't a state?

Guam isn't sovereign. It's an unincorporated US possession.

I don't understand why Guam and Puerto Rico get primaries. They can't vote for the President, yet they have a say in who gets the nomination.

To me, it's like asking someone to taste the batter, but not letting them eat any of the cake.

Churchill2004: Actually they do, but by Federal law what they pay goes into a separate Guamanian treasury rather than the US treasury.

Just like how social security goes into a 'seperate fund', I'm sure.

Aarontology: I don't understand why Guam and Puerto Rico get primaries. They can't vote for the President, yet they have a say in who gets the nomination

Political parties are private organizations, free to select their nominee however they see fit. The Democrats even had a separate primary for "Democrats abroad" for registered Democrats (and US citizens) not living in the US.

I do agree it's odd, but I think the main reason is simply so that these territories retain the two main American political parties rather than having separate local parties. It's not as if anyone ever expected to still have a disputed nomination by the time these territories got to vote.

Shaggy_C: Just like how social security goes into a 'seperate fund', I'm sure

The treasury is under local control. Congress could theoretically exercise control over it, but they never do.

Aarontology: ...I don't understand why Guam and Puerto Rico get primaries...

Rules. DNC. 'Nuff said?

Churchill2004: As for Puerto Rico, they should shiat or get off the pot. They can't beg small population as an excuse. Statehood or independence. This quasi-federated nonsense is irrational and has no basis in the Constitution.

I say let them go the route of CNMI. Much more autonomy, still ours.

Paying reparations to any nation or group that has suffered in the distant past is beyond idiotic.

Seriously, anybody who suggests it should be hounded into genetic extinction so they do not pass on their DNA into future college smurfs.

Churchill2004: The treasury is under local control.

Sounds ideal, actually. Why can't the states do the same thing?