FTFA: Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

/Better late than never guys...

Praise Allah

Christians actually behaving in a Christian manner? Whoa. I'm sure they'll snap out of it soon and get back to the atheist/gay/muslim/liberal/sex ed/evolution bashing soon.

The seventh sign?

And into law enforcement!

Phil Burress, an Ohio activist who networks with national evangelical leaders, said that if high-profile evangelical leaders such as Dobson and Land don't support the document, "it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean" and will carry no weight.

And even if they do. The Pope released a bull that specifically forbade priests to run for office or be active in politics in the 80s, but that didn't stop an entire politico-religious movement (Liberation Theology), bishops running for office, or priests organizing entire political parties.

SphericalTime: Christians actually behaving in a Christian manner? Whoa. I'm sure they'll snap out of it soon and get back to the atheist/gay/muslim/liberal/sex ed/evolution bashing soon.

Not to worry. They're only talking and writing essays about behaving in a Christian manner.

/We'll return to our regularly scheduled witch hunts after this commercial message....

FTA: condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible

Therein lies your problem.

Christians on the left can quote the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor, such as Luke 6:20 and Luke 18:22.

Christians on the right can quote the teachings of Moses regarding the gay, such as Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

Each side picks and chooses what it wants. In the end, it makes Christianity appear fragmented and selective, which is generally bad for all Christians.

Dinjiin: Each side picks and chooses what it wants. In the end, it makes Christianity appear fragmented and selective, which is generally bad for all Christians.

Since 1517 at least, or 1536 at best, Christianity has been fragmented and selective. It's the nature of the game when you have so many sects claiming to have the truth, and the truth differs. It is not just limited to evangelicals.

One reason I used to respect Cal Thomas was his insistence that Christians should pursue and support a kingdom "not of this earth." He changed his tune a bit since then, but hopefully will change it back so I can respect him once again.

On the minus side, this will probably be the cause of an Evangelical schism.

Not that that's a bad thing.

SphericalTime: Christians actually behaving in a Christian manner?

Actually a lot of christians do behave that way, it just happens to be that the loudest Christians don't.

slobarnuts: Since 1517 at least, or 1536 at best, Christianity has been fragmented and selective. It's the nature of the game when you have so many sects claiming to have the truth, and the truth differs. It is not just limited to evangelicals.

I say it goes all the way back to 325AD with the First Council of Nicaea and the rejection of the Trinity by some Christian groups.

According to one source, there are over 38,000 Christian denominations, past and present, major and minor. More than a few bloody wars have been started because of those differences.

To bring those differences into American politics is simply asking for trouble, which has shown up and made itself very comfortable.

Good for them. I'm not a big fan of evangelicals, but I approve whenever a group of tools decides to stop being used.



...good book, btw

If they want to be involved in politics....NO PROBLEM, just tax them like you would any other business. If they want to be churches, OK fine, have a ball. Just be clear that you can't have it both ways.

There does appear to be a couple of Christians who understand that the evangelical message of today has no correlation to the teachings of Jesus. I'm quite surprised. Won't change a damn thing though. The more hate Christians preach, the more inequalities they promote will cause the more the intelligent members of the masses to poke their heads up and start thinking for themselves.

Thats right Christians...

I wouldn't of turned agnostic had you not made bed fellows with the Republican party. I'd be praising jesus every day! But now look what you've gone and done. SATAN IS MY JESUS! I snort blow off of hookers daily! Male hookers! And I'm male! HAHA!! IT's all YOUR FAULT!

"All too often we have attacked the evils and injustices of others," the statement says, "while we have condoned our own sins." It argues, "we must reform our own behavior."

Yup. I think before you go out and start telling other people how to live, you better take a damn hard look at the rules you want others to live by and see how well you live up to them. If you can live up to your own high standards, even if I disagree with them I will learn to respect where you're coming from.

Dinjiin: FTA: condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible

Therein lies your problem.

Christians on the left can quote the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor, such as Luke 6:20 and Luke 18:22.

Christians on the right can quote the teachings of Moses regarding the gay, such as Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

Each side picks and chooses what it wants. In the end, it makes Christianity appear fragmented and selective, which is generally bad for all Christians.

The difference is the Christians on the left talking about the poor are quoting the Gospels, which is fundamental to the Christian religion, whereas the Christians on the right talking about gays are quoting the Old Testament, which is fundamental to the Jewish religion. Guess which one makes more sense?

Kome:
The difference is the Christians on the left talking about the poor are quoting the Gospels, which is fundamental to the Christian religion, whereas the Christians on the right talking about gays are quoting the Old Testament, which is fundamental to the Jewish religion. Guess which one makes more sense?

Point! The Old Testament was for the Jews and was not longer relavent after Jesus. You dont see animal sacrifices or pilgramages to the temple any more do you? While it has some good applications that can be useful, its not "The Law" any more. "we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper"

Neurochemist: Thats right Christians...

I wouldn't of turned agnostic had you not made bed fellows with the Republican party. I'd be praising jesus every day! But now look what you've gone and done. SATAN IS MY JESUS! I snort blow off of hookers daily! Male hookers! And I'm male! HAHA!! IT's all YOUR FAULT!

Your jib, I like the cut of it.

Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party

This pretty much encapsulates a large portion of Bush voters. They got played by Rove Inc. and it's been a disaster ever since.

zappaisfrank: Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party

This pretty much encapsulates a large portion of Bush voters. They got played by Rove Inc. and it's been a disaster ever since.

It hasn't worked out well for them, either. The entire "coerce the state into acting as a proxy for the church" has been very dangerous for religious freedom.

.

lolwut?

Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.





It's about time, says I.

The evangelicals only ever got into politics in the first place because of Roe v Wade.

I guess they finally figured out the Republicans have been holding that carrot in front of their face for over 30 years.

i think they've read the writing on the wall.

if they keep up with what they've been doing, then they're setting themselves up as targets and they're finished.

it's amazing they didn't read it sooner.

Dinjiin: slobarnuts: Since 1517 at least, or 1536 at best, Christianity has been fragmented and selective. It's the nature of the game when you have so many sects claiming to have the truth, and the truth differs. It is not just limited to evangelicals.

I say it goes all the way back to 325AD with the First Council of Nicaea and the rejection of the Trinity by some Christian groups.

According to one source, there are over 38,000 Christian denominations, past and present, major and minor. More than a few bloody wars have been started because of those differences.



It goes back to roughly 5 minutes after Jesus' corpse got cold. The early Jesus Movement was, by all accounts, incredibly fragmented.

I'll believe it when I see it!

Seabon: The evangelicals only ever got into politics in the first place because of Roe v Wade.

I guess they finally figured out the Republicans have been holding that carrot in front of their face for over 30 years.

No, it's more like:

21-7-b: i think they've read the writing on the wall.

if they keep up with what they've been doing, then they're setting themselves up as targets and they're finished.

it's amazing they didn't read it sooner.

Their little political messiah called Bush Jr. has farked them over for the next few generations. The mess that is America now has a big golden cross on it and the smugness of the retarded jagoffs that boasted complete obedience for their own fictional America by using a horrible terrorist attack is now being beat down all across the culture. Culture Wars? Yet another self-aggrandizing fight Christians simply can't win. They're the ultimate jackasses: those who pick a fight but get their asses beat, then try to play the victim for a fight they started.

It would be nice of the soothsayers to scurry back under the rocks from whence they emerged.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum 2008-05-03 10:12:53 AM
zappaisfrank: Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party

This pretty much encapsulates a large portion of Bush voters. They got played by Rove Inc. and it's been a disaster ever since.

It hasn't worked out well for them, either. The entire "coerce the state into acting as a proxy for the church" has been very dangerous for religious freedom.

It's true. They are kind of like lobbyists in a way. They think that by voting, the government should make things they don't like go away. Churches reduce themselves to being just another special interest group and should lose their tax exemption because of it.

Christian evangelical leaders: Let's get the fark out of politics McCain sucks; let's sit this one out and elect Huckabee in 2012.

translated from the original

It drives me nuts that people don't realize that the Separation of Church and State is designed not only to protect government, but to protect religious institutions as well. Just look at the Renaissance popes, or modern Iran to see how corrupting politics can be for a religious institution.

FTFA
Phil Burress, an Ohio activist who networks with national evangelical leaders, said that if high-profile evangelical leaders such as Dobson and Land don't support the document, "it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean" and will carry no weight.

Guys like Dobson have drank from the cup of power and they will never put it down.

"All too often we have attacked the evils and injustices of others," the statement says, "while we have condoned our own sins." It argues, "we must reform our own behavior."

Never going to happen. There's too much political power wrapped up in the Evangelical movement.

Yee Haw,

Time to play Cowboys and Christers!

This is good. Religion and politics should not intertwine with each other. The separation of religion and State is protecting both sides from each other. You can be a religious person running for office, but your personal beliefs should be just that: personal.

The only bad part about this is that Fark will suffer. If this goes all the way and they leave politics once and for all, then Fark loses about 45% of it submissions and alot of Farkers lose their primary argument in religion threads. Oh well, I guess there's always evolution threads.


Dinjiin: FTA: condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible

Therein lies your problem.

Christians on the left can quote the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor, such as Luke 6:20 and Luke 18:22.

Christians on the right can quote the teachings of Moses regarding the gay, such as Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

Each side picks and chooses what it wants. In the end, it makes Christianity appear fragmented and selective, which is generally bad for all Christians.

In my opinion, if people are going to cherry-pick out of their holy book (regardless of which book it is), I'd rather they do it with the good messages. For example, if Christians just focussed on the good messages in the NT (good to others and all that), odds are many people wouldn't have a problem with them cherry-picking.

Good, GTFO. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

/Also: that "Nah-nanana heyheyhey" song

A few young evangelicals will not stop the religious right from their unholy crusade to bring fascism to America, wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. The best thing that could happen is if all the religious nuts get bit by the snakes they handle.

Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning

No, it still means deluded, hypocritical asshole.

Ironically, this happening would actually help convince me that there is a god up there and that he/she/they/it's compassionate.

Neurochemist: Thats right Christians...

I wouldn't of turned agnostic had you not made bed fellows with the Republican party. I'd be praising jesus every day! But now look what you've gone and done. SATAN IS MY JESUS! I snort blow off of hookers daily! Male hookers! And I'm male! HAHA!! IT's all YOUR FAULT!

Now look what's happened. That nice Christian boy has become a Republican Senator.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deuteronomy 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Evangelicals aren't all that bad!

Why the fark do tax exempt religions even have a right to say anything political? Pay taxes and get admission to the political arena.

Kome: The difference is the Christians on the left talking about the poor are quoting the Gospels, which is fundamental to the Christian religion, whereas the Christians on the right talking about gays are quoting the Old Testament, which is fundamental to the Jewish religion. Guess which one makes more sense?

To play devil's advocate... There are a few instances of homosexuality being frowned upon in the New Testament, namely Romans 1:24-27, 1 Timothy 1:10, and 1 Corinthians 6:9.

/but yeah, most of the gay = bad stuff is in the Old Testament
//and Romans

NEVER. It will never happen. These people are into religion for power. Controlling the teeming morons that are the religious right gives them the power.

They'll never give that up, ever.

Best news I've heard today.

Fundamentalist always seem to choose the WRONG fundamentals.

Dinjiin: Therein lies your problem.

Christians on the left can quote the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor, such as Luke 6:20 and Luke 18:22.

Christians on the right can quote the teachings of Moses regarding the gay, such as Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

Moses didn't write nor teach any of Leviticus, that is an addition to Scripture written by (most likely Aaronide) Priests around 650BC.

Biblical Truth. Link

In other news, I await anxiously this document, and hearing it's universal condemnation from the Dominionists and other horrid asshats who want to turn this country into a Theocracy.

Evangelical Christians have as much right to be involved in politics as any other Americans. I disagree vehemently with most of their positions but I have no interest in them walking away from the table.

What I do wish is that they base they political views on the entire Bible, specifically the teachings of Jesus Christ (you know, the guy they claim to worship?) and not just the parts that justify hating fags. If they can't manage that herculean feat at least give the same respect to those who think differently as I'm willing to give them.