Anyone not know how taxes on big companies worth yet?

New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers
Tax cuts=keep the difference to inflate profit margins because everyone is already used to paying the higher prices.

worth=work

*facepalm*

keiverarrow: Anyone not know how taxes on big companies worth yet?

New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers
Tax cuts=keep the difference to inflate profit margins because everyone is already used to paying the higher prices.

to think otherwise is to ignore the basic charge of a corporation: increase value for investors. if you give them free profits, they will gladly take them.

``That's $10 billion, and it's going into the pockets of oil refiners,' said Leonard Burman of the Tax Policy Center in Washington. ``The last time I checked, they didn't need it.'

He must not have checked with any oil company CEO's. They need every penny they can squeeze out of us.

But voters will still be sold on it because they're farking idiots.

Was the Obvious tag busy crying itself to sleep?

Wow. If they could implement this gas tax holiday today, and the price of a gallon of gas actually did fall $0.184, we'd be back to paying the same price for gas as we did in the glorious days of a week and a half ago. (new window)

We need the government to control everything so this never happens again. What a travesty.

People, you're forgetting the positive thing about this. If we lift the gas tax, there will be less money for road improvements and people who depend on that kind of work will lose their jobs AND our roads will begin to crumble!

It's a win-win!

/we're trying to destroy our infrastructure, right?

Can I get a D-U-H?

On the plus side. They are coming up with plans that are so mind blowingly stupid that even the slowest among us will see through them eventually.

/I'm trying to look on the bright side here.....

"companies will continue to charge the average $3.60 a gallon and just pocket the money that would have gone to federal taxes"

Well, if some guy says it might happen, that certainly proves it.

keiverarrow: New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers
Tax cuts=keep the difference to inflate profit margins because everyone is already used to paying the higher prices.

No. (Even if TFA has found a dumbass professor of economics to say this.)

If the gas tax is cut, retailers WILL cut the price by roughly the same amount IF there is competition between them in the local market.

If the prices don't go down, that's because of a competition issue, not profiteering. But I don't believe you don't have a choice of gas retailers. If you didn't, you'd already be paying $8/gal, and the oil companies really would be laughing.

keiverarrow: New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers

Not necessarily so. For instance, though the price of diesel has skyrocketed and though fast food is heavily dependent on logistics, the price of a cheese burger remains a dollar.

Something like gas, though... we're already used to wildly fluctuating prices. We'll eat the price increase and not say a word.

Dummest plan evah!

What's that you say?

Three Crooked Squirrels:
Wow. If they could implement this gas tax holiday today, and the price of a gallon of gas actually did fall $0.184, we'd be back to paying the same price for gas as we did in the glorious days of a week and a half ago.
I remember those days. They were a simpler time. People would treat each other with respect. There were fewer terrorists. And the dollar was a lot stronger. And my knees didn't hurt. What wouldn't I give to go back to those days?



/ get off my lawn

If the US creates a corporate windfall tax, what would stop corporations from just moving their offices overseas - then they won't be American companies anymore?

Spanky_McFarksalot: "companies will continue to charge the average $3.60 a gallon and just pocket the money that would have gone to federal taxes"

Well, if some guy says it might happen, that certainly proves it.

Like you know, all economists.

Fool.

Godammit.

I was gonna stop for gas this morning ($3.81) but decided to wait until after work.

On my way home? $4.01.

While I'll likely regret it, I decided 1/8th of a tank will last me the weekend.
=Smidge=

ExposeExxon.com Link (new window)

Three Crooked Squirrels: Wow. If they could implement this gas tax holiday today, and the price of a gallon of gas actually did fall $0.184, we'd be back to paying the same price for gas as we did in the glorious days of a week and a half ago.

Already stolen and used.

A co-worker just came up to me and said, "hey, did you hear the federal government's talking about lifting the gas tax? We're thinking about driving down to Tennessee this summer" and, thanks to you, I said, "yeah, that'll be about 18 cents, right? That should bring prices down to two weeks ago" with a big eye roll and she laughed.

That's a seriously kick ass way to counter someone really excited about this gas tax thing without offending them.

Obama is right on this. In fact when Illinois suspended the gas tax in 2000 for 6 months (which Obama did vote for), only 1/3 of Illinois residents knew they were "saving" money during the gas tax suspension.

All suspending the gas tax will do is put 18.5 cents/gallon additional right into the pockets of the oil companies and cause further deterioration of our roads and bridges.

dustman81: Obama is right on this. In fact when Illinois suspended the gas tax in 2000 for 6 months (which Obama did vote for),

Has he recognized that he voted for it previously while he's talking about it? Saying something like, "we tried it. It didn't work. Sorry."

keiverarrow: Anyone not know how taxes on big companies worth yet?

New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers
Tax cuts=keep the difference to inflate profit margins because everyone is already used to paying the higher prices.

/THIS

I'm not really that bright and figured this out...

What the rich never figure out in their mad dash for all the money, is that by leaving some profits on the table now, it will help lengthen the overall profits. The oil co investors will make more money if they don't make all of it now. Too much profits will end up with regulation or in the extreme federalization of the industry.

I wonder how things would be different if all companies had to be non-profit? Credit Unions are and they seem to do fine, and expand, etc.
But we're talking about God Money and that means capitalism even though the investors don't care how much everyone else suffers as long as they get theirs.
Aren't we mature enough as a nation, as a species to get past that?

/of course not.

How about 90% taxation after 50 bill in profits, less amounts used directly in non-petroleum based fuel research? That'll teach the oil companies that they have a responsibility to the people as well as a few institutional shareholders.

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: Liberlas are going to work overtime to try to convince people that reducing taxes on gas, which seems like a good thing to most sane people, is actually a bad thing because Big Oil is the devil. :)

Yes, basically you twits. :)

When you suspend a tax, you need to make it up elsewhere. Plus, it seems that when you have 4$ gas, 18 cents a gal being taken off is nice, but it doesn't really solve any problems.

Now, be a good little bunch of assclown and shut up, will you? :)

/No, I don't need to be respectful
//the three or four people who post under RLSM don't deserve it.

turns out the savings worth $10 billion dollars will go into the pockets of the oil companies margin commodities traders who last season jacked up the price of gold

FTFY

keiverarrow: New taxes=pass the cost onto consumers

Not all industries can afford to pass new costs onto consumers like the oil industry can. Most are forced to eat it.

dougermouse: What the rich never figure out in their mad dash for all the money, is that by leaving some profits on the table now, it will help lengthen the overall profits. The oil co investors will make more money if they don't make all of it now. Too much profits will end up with regulation or in the extreme federalization of the industry.

You know when you're bleedin' a guy, you don't squeeze him dry right away. Contrarily, you let him do his bidding, suavely. So, you can bleed him next week and the week after, at a minimum.

No it's not.

It's just 10 billion dollars less that isn't going into fixing our roads. And our roads are pretty shiatty.

/Plus, the demand that will ensue will cancel out the pathetic 18 cents anyway.

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: If liberal dumbasses like you weren't opposing drilling for oil ANYWHERE in the united states or off the coast, our gas prices would be much lower. Liberals also oppose building new refineries, which is also limiting our supply of gas and bumping up the price. You liberals have imposed your environmental extremist earth worship dogma on society, and now we are paying for with high gas prices. Your support of ethanol has lead to the increase in the price of foods as corn is being diverted to produce ethanol, and fields that were used to grow other crops are now being used to grow corn, limiting the supply of other foods and increasing their price as well.

LOL The LIBURHALS are the problem. Too bad they weren't in power for 6 of the last 8 years, and only have had control of congress for 1 and a half years full of obstruction.

Gas production is a small part of the problem. The insane cost of oil and insane profit-taking by the oil companies, however, is a directly republican issue.

And Ethanol works. CORN Ethanol is the problem, it's horribly inefficient. But there are huge subsides to corn. If we were investing in sugar ethanol and developing the technologies to get energy from that, or from switchgrass, we'd be in a better spot.

Did the republicans push non-corn ethanol? Did they work with that? Or did they suck up to all those red, corn-producing states by continuing those big arse corn subsidies?

And you can't blame the democrats on this - this is not a program you can begin in one and a half, or two years. There were big flags, we knew this was going to happen. But the Republican congresses failed.

You can't win this one, no matter how long you debate or how many ringers you bring in. Bush and the Republican's Energy Plan has FAILED. and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do about it now.

/insert funny fail picture
//I need to walk to the grocery before it closes, so I can't take time finding one.
///I leave it to Fark's capable hands to find one genuinely crushing to show RLSM.
////I'd be nice if it had Sam Jackson given my last line.

You oppose drilling for oil in America. That limits supply


There's only so much oil in the ground. That limits supply. Renewable energy will eventually be 100% of the portfolio, I guarantee you. Why on Earth would we wait? The hammer is right in front of you. Stop beating two rocks together.

ANybody that still doesn't get this? Without corresponding price controls, which will never happen, the oil company is free to raise prices, and if you are a dumb ass like Hillary and tax the il campanies to make up for not collecting hte gas tax, you gaurantee this will happen


I just happen to have a film strip:

{Puts on White Lab Coat and Horn-rimmed glasses and begins speaking a tone of voice that can only be described as smug fatherly asshole-while the unmistakable sound of 16mmm projector and bright cheery woodwinds is heard in the background}

Well, you see Jimmy, Oil and gas are what we call, a commodities and as such, they have no fixed price. Instead they can vary widely from day to day. You see, Large Patriotic Oil companies employ teams of mathematicians
{shift to stock shot of 40 men with thick glasses, crew-cuts and short-sleeved white shirts with black ties laboring over slide rules}

And it's their job to calculate to the very last decimal place exactly how much the market will bear. In other words they decide to the very last penny how much ordinary folks like you mom and pop can afford to pay for gas every day. Then they charge thier filling station owners almost exactly that price; so they can provide maximum return to their shareholders they way a corporation should!"

Gee, that's Swell!

"It Sure is Jimmy, it's {looks at Camera} the Ameri-Can Way!

But, let me ask you something Jimmy, suppose the federal government decided tomorrow, that we didn't really NEED all those roads and bridges they build with the .$0.18 a gallon the collect in taxes. Suppose instead they decided to repeal that tax tomorrow. What would happen to gas prices Jimmy

Well, they'd go down by $.018?

Boy you sure are an idiot, Jimmy! Didn't I just tell you that Oil companies will charge as much as humanly possible for their oil and gas?

Yeah...

And if your folks are okay with paying $3.68 a gallon today, why would the oil companies let them get away with paying $3.50 tomorrow?; You're not a communist, are ya Jimmy?

No Sir!

So what would the Right and AMERICAN thing be to do with that $0.18 a gallon?

Well, I suppose the oil companies could keep it, and NOT lower prices and then their Shareholders would be $0.18 a gallon richer, as God and Adam Smith intended.

That's right Jimmy! not only would it be the RIGHT thing to do, why, it'd be the Oil Company executive's fiduciary Duty to do so; and you wouldn't want to stand in the way of a Corporate executive doing his fiduciary duty now would you son?

Why No SIR!

That's good son, I'd hate to have to turn you in.

{filmstrip brought to you by America's proud oil companies raping you today for a brighter future tomorrow...for us anyway...mmmm oil...}

Etchy333: People, you're forgetting the positive thing about this. If we lift the gas tax, there will be less money for road improvements and people who depend on that kind of work will lose their jobs AND our roads will begin to crumble!

Actually, I'm all in favor of crumbling roads. We should go back to dirt roads. That way, everyone will be forced to drive 15 mph and we'll burn WAY less fuel. :)

rush_limbaugh_sent_me: You oppose drilling for oil in America. That limits supply.

Is there an oil shortage that I'm not aware of?

Drilling for oil in ANWR or along the Gulf coast is not to alleviate any shortage of crude oil, but to reduce shipping costs for the refiners. And - to a lesser extent - to reduce the US' dependency on foreign sources.

oil prices are rising because of low supplies

My ass. Go read about the Enron loophole and the manipulation of the oil trading.

Close the "Enron Loophole' that exempts electronic energy trades from regulation by federal commodities regulators (new window)

Farm Bill Measure to Close Enron Loophole
(new window)

Speculators driving up gas prices, dealers say (new window)

Farm Bill proposal would put energy markets under the microscope (new window)

Magorn: [film strip]

THIS

PascalsGhost: Spanky_McFarksalot: "companies will continue to charge the average $3.60 a gallon and just pocket the money that would have gone to federal taxes"

Well, if some guy says it might happen, that certainly proves it.

Like you know, all economists.

Fool.

why are all ecnomists such ass-h*les, is it because they all like sucking their poppa's d*ck?

bheilig: You oppose drilling for oil in America. That limits supply


There's only so much oil in the ground. That limits supply. Renewable energy will eventually be 100% of the portfolio, I guarantee you. Why on Earth would we wait? The hammer is right in front of you. Stop beating two rocks together.

Because the Hammer is NOT right in front of us and any rock-banger that spends time to invent the new hammer is going to lose time and effort that could be put into more rock-banging.

Not saying alternative energy is a *bad* thing, in fact my last Exxon/Mobil shareholder statement talked about some of their research into it. But with no short-term gain they will be spending the lion's share of their profits on protecting themselves from having to pay what they owe to Alaskan fishing villages. Wait that didn't come out right. . .

What I meant to say is XOM is not completely evil and regressive (they certainly are some), but even if they were honest and fair and environmental and "thinking of the future" it would be hard to "keep up with the competition" in the market while blowing most of their cash on research that still has a LONG way to go before it cracks cold fusion/water cars/efficient solar power/whatever.

The fact that they are gouging does not change higher oil prices, the fact of higher oil prices does not mean they are not gouging.

Anyhoo, this "gas-tax holiday" will not save us consumers an appreciable amount of money, it will cost the highway system a LOT, and it is ultimately a bad thing. Further, I don't whine about higher gas prices because I honestly wouldn't be that hacked off if gas cost a little more and the money was used to fund alternative energy and more fuel-efficient car designs (ones that are actually safe to drive in, mind you.)

Oh yes, and it would probably help if you farkers bothered to "shop around" and make certain to buy gas at the cheapest stations. Capitalism and competition *do* have some effect.

I am a member of the "Big Oil" Conspiracy. I am TheBigJerk. I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

On NPR today I heard an automotive engineer who works in energy conservation, and he did the math to show that you could save more money than the "tax break" by driving 55 and keeping the AC at 50-75%. Just saying.

When Clinton followed McCain into this gimmick, I lost the last bit of respect I had for her. GObama!

This is simply not possible, submitter. Did you not hear Senator Clinton today? She said that "you are either with us or against us" on this issue.

No, she did use those very words! Why is that shocking news? You are shocked she said that because you do not want people to know that you are against us, that's why. We are onto you.

And tomorrow, she will tell the people of Indiana that her campaign is truly turning a corner. A corner straight towards victory!

CrunchyCheetoFingers: If the US creates a corporate windfall tax, what would stop corporations from just moving their offices overseas - then they won't be American companies anymore?

Then come the trade restrictions, and the corporations that didn't abandon us will grow and the corporations that did can go focus on China, which is where the real action is anyway. No, I'm not an economist and I'm sure that there would be dire repercussions to my plan. But we're all doomed anyway, so fark it.

Let me try to dispell this little myth you all seem to have bought in to.

I'll even try to make the math simple.

Situation: Gas @ $4.00/gal, Tax is $1.00 of that.

1. Eliminate federal tax temporarily.
2. Oil companies A, B, C, D, & E say: "Hey! Let's pocket the difference!"
3. Oil company F says: "Let's reduce the price to $3.95 -- we'll pick up TONS of customers and make up that $0.05 difference in spades."
4. Now, to compete, A,B,C,D,& E have to reduce their prices down to $3.95 as well, or lower.

Soon enough (in the real world, this would happen in essentially instantly), the companies price-compete themselves right back to where they were before minus the federal tax that no one is paying.

5. Gas @ $3.00/gal.


The only way for the prices to remain at the old levels would be if all the companies colluded to keep prices where they were. (There are laws against this, and the public outcry would demand microscopic scrutiny.)

Barring collusion, one (and more likely all) of the companies will get the bright idea that gaining (or consequently 'keeping') marketshare is more valuable than a public relations faux pas from being a company trying to stiff the consumer during a period of high anxiety over fuel prices.

Basic economics demands the prices will immediately fall.

There is one way to reduce gas prices and that is to cut demand a bunch. That could be done by putting a 100% duty on all goods and services from China and India which would reduce their demand for oil.

llegar: Let me try to dispell this little myth you all seem to have bought in to.

I'll even try to make the math simple.

Situation: Gas @ $4.00/gal, Tax is $1.00 of that.

1. Eliminate federal tax temporarily.
2. Oil companies A, B, C, D, & E say: "Hey! Let's pocket the difference!"
3. Oil company F says: "Let's reduce the price to $3.95 -- we'll pick up TONS of customers and make up that $0.05 difference in spades."
4. Now, to compete, A,B,C,D,& E have to reduce their prices down to $3.95 as well, or lower.

Soon enough (in the real world, this would happen in essentially instantly), the companies price-compete themselves right back to where they were before minus the federal tax that no one is paying.

5. Gas @ $3.00/gal.


The only way for the prices to remain at the old levels would be if all the companies colluded to keep prices where they were. (There are laws against this, and the public outcry would demand microscopic scrutiny.)

Barring collusion, one (and more likely all) of the companies will get the bright idea that gaining (or consequently 'keeping') marketshare is more valuable than a public relations faux pas from being a company trying to stiff the consumer during a period of high anxiety over fuel prices.

Basic economics demands the prices will immediately fall.

Ha Ha

Gas at $3, demand goes up, supply goes down, prices go back up, more bridges collapse in Minnesota killing more people due to no maintenance, highway construction workers out of a job, economy tanks...ta da

SSP: llegar: Let me try to dispell this little myth you all seem to have bought in to.

I'll even try to make the math simple.

Situation: Gas @ $4.00/gal, Tax is $1.00 of that.

1. Eliminate federal tax temporarily.
2. Oil companies A, B, C, D, & E say: "Hey! Let's pocket the difference!"
3. Oil company F says: "Let's reduce the price to $3.95 -- we'll pick up TONS of customers and make up that $0.05 difference in spades."
4. Now, to compete, A,B,C,D,& E have to reduce their prices down to $3.95 as well, or lower.

Soon enough (in the real world, this would happen in essentially instantly), the companies price-compete themselves right back to where they were before minus the federal tax that no one is paying.

5. Gas @ $3.00/gal.


The only way for the prices to remain at the old levels would be if all the companies colluded to keep prices where they were. (There are laws against this, and the public outcry would demand microscopic scrutiny.)

Barring collusion, one (and more likely all) of the companies will get the bright idea that gaining (or consequently 'keeping') marketshare is more valuable than a public relations faux pas from being a company trying to stiff the consumer during a period of high anxiety over fuel prices.

Basic economics demands the prices will immediately fall.

Ha Ha

Gas at $3, demand goes up, supply goes down, prices go back up, more bridges collapse in Minnesota killing more people due to no maintenance, highway construction workers out of a job, economy tanks...ta da

The Aristocrats!

Seriously, anyone who thinks gas prices will "essentially instantly" drop to market value in the real world is delusional.

Maybe in your micro textbook, but not in the real world.

/didn't read much of his micro textbook