The guy's an asshat. Mainly because he said "As a parent, I know that taking even one drink of alcohol before getting behind the wheel of a car is wrong."

Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

Seriously, that's ridiculous.

lexnaturalis: Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

When your district is Alexandria, VA - and you now have to say and do anything you can to stay in office.

A GOP politician hypocrite? That's unpossible!

FTFY

It's not just Republicans, both parties have outraged oh-so-moral activists who turn out to be sleazy hypocrites. Remember Eliot Spitzer?

What is "Alcohol Awareness Month?" Is that where you try and drink a bunch of different beers?

When your district is Alexandria, VA

Uh, not his district, ThatGuyGreg.

And, I believe smooshie was just trying to point out, correctly, that no party has a monopoly on hypocrisy, Nestea Plunge.

Spitzer's squeaky-clean image was entirely hypocritical.

Nestea Plunge: What the shiat does Spitzer have to do with anything?

He was a Democrat and got caught with a hooker-originally the linked article had nothing to do with either party until someone brought it up in the thread.

Personally, I think it's a bad example either way.

/fwiw, my views are mostly aligned with democratic ones

Bufu: And, I believe smooshie was just trying to point out, correctly, that no party has a monopoly on hypocrisy, Nestea Plunge.

Spitzer's squeaky-clean image was entirely hypocritical.

Pretty much what I was trying to say (without saying "this")

That's why I like the democrats. They admit the existence of nuance and grey areas even though it's bad politics.

If you fight to pass a law, then break that law (even if it isn't on the books yet) then that's the ONLY time there should be a mandatory minimum sentence. I'm thinking five years.

MADD has overplayed their hand, big time. It's one thing to protect people from unnecessary death on the road, it's another thing to bog down law enforcement and politicians with this bullshiat issue that criminalizes everybody and only benefits lawyers. Seriously, it's something that almost everybody has done, and will continue to do. Doesn't make it right, but the punishment is way overdone. Just my opinion.

I'm shocked, shocked and amazed that a New York politician named Vito Fosella would be crooked.

The Homer Tax I'm shocked, shocked and amazed that a New York politician named Vito Fosella would be crooked.

Thats-a racist, you gobba-goo.

Clearly those laws are intended for 'other' people.

smooshie: Remember Eliot Spitzer?

Well that was different, because well, he was a dem. Why you gotta bring up old shiat anyway?


/ I love it when any of them get busted, either party.
//after spending time in jail they can say they are in tune with the common man

It would be fun to force politicians to obey the laws they propose; though there were be a lot more 'I get a 100 billion dollars and all the hookers and blow I can handle' motions killed in committee...

/I'd be happy if politicians followed the laws they pass.

They only bring up his party when mentioning the upcoming Democratic Primary.

Do as I say, not as I do.

I Said: The Homer Tax I'm shocked, shocked and amazed that a New York politician named Vito Fosella would be crooked.

Thats-a racist, you gobba-goo.

I'm pretty sure that Vito Fosella is someone who gives you missions in GTA IV

lexnaturalis: Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

The legal limit in Colorado is 0.05. That equates to about two real beers for me. I found out the hard way.

It's bad because it's illegal. There's no other reason. DUI laws are now so strict that I won't touch a alcohol out of the house... even if I'm not driving, on the off chance that I may have to.

MADD, your mission is complete. fark you.

/real beer = not miller/bud/coors

Unavailable for comment

lexnaturalis: Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

Ever since MADD shifted from a "stop drunk driving" organization to a "anybody who even entertains the thought of having a single drop of an alcoholic beverage should be beaten to death with Louisville sluggers right in front of their family" organization.

The MADD organization, as it exists today, is full of genuinely horrible people. I'd place them below pedophiles -- and no, I'm not kidding.

I was hoping he is a Hillary superdelegate, and was disappointed to see he is a Republican

Bufu: Uh, not his district, ThatGuyGreg.

Meh - didn't get past the first paragraph. I was hoping it was one of those uppity farkers from the NYC districts.

lexnaturalis: Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

But people who believe they can drink just enough to keep themselves below 0.08 use that as an excuse. If you are designated driver and you have one drink, good for you. If you are driving, and you honestly think you can drink and keep your BAC just below the legal limit, you're an idiot.

lexnaturalis: The guy's an asshat. Mainly because he said "As a parent, I know that taking even one drink of alcohol before getting behind the wheel of a car is wrong."

Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

Guess it depends on what your definition of ONE beer is.

I spent the hours between 2-5 this morning waiting for a bus in a seedy part of Denver because there is no way in hell I drive drunk or allow my friends to, but we all enjoy drinking. Denver was farking cold last night too.

Why is this hypocritical?

He's an elected representative, and while it would be nice if he agreed with his constituency 100% of the time, in order to do his job well there are times when he should fight for something that he doesn't personally support.

If this is not the case, why is petitioning the government a Constitutionally protected right? Why should we be able to convince our leaders of the politically expedient path if we expect them to act only on their own conscience anyway?

moops: lexnaturalis: Since when did one beer at a meal before driving home become a bad thing?

But people who believe they can drink just enough to keep themselves below 0.08 use that as an excuse. If you are designated driver and you have one drink, good for you. If you are driving, and you honestly think you can drink and keep your BAC just below the legal limit, you're an idiot.

That's why I think the legal limits are retarded. 90% of the drinking populace is capable of safely operating a vehicle at 0.08 BAC. The standards and laws are written for the people who have trouble walking a straight line after 3 Coors Lights.

My solution to the whole DUI thing I guess is to have an incrimental fine system. For instance 0.08 - 0.10 = $200 fine 0.11 - 0.13 = $400 etc. And you don't go to jail or get dinged with enormous insurance rates UNLESS you commit some other kind of vehicluar crime (driving wrecklessly, etc) then you go to jail.

GunshipPolitico: I spent the hours between 2-5 this morning waiting for a bus in a seedy part of Denver because there is no way in hell I drive drunk or allow my friends to, but we all enjoy drinking. Denver was farking cold last night too.

Don't they have cabs in Denver?

fosborb: in order to do his job well there are times when he should fight for something that he doesn't personally support.

If my representatives fight for causes opposite of of those who elected them into office, I'd say they are in fact NOT doing their job well.

InferiousX: Don't they have cabs in Denver?

Yeah.. if you live anywhere outside of downtown, it's about $30 to get to your destination.

InferiousX: 90% of the drinking populace is capable of safely operating a vehicle at 0.08 BAC.

That's your opinion - you have nothing to back it up.

I do love drunk driving threads on fark - it's the only place where the ignorant can come out and defend drunk driving. You won't see that in any other arena because it's such an untenable position.

I don't think anybody's defending drunk driving, moops.

The depiction of MADD above is painfully accurate. But no legislator is going to stand up and say, "I believe our state's drunk driving laws are overly strict and are adversely affecting citizens who, while at or just over the legal limit as defined by prevailing mores, are neither drunk nor incapable of safe driving, and I propose today that we reexamine how we approach this issue, with an eye toward fairness, as well as toward safety."

Bufu: But no legislator is going to stand up and say, "I believe our state's drunk driving laws are overly strict and are adversely affecting citizens who, while at or just over the legal limit as defined by prevailing mores, are neither drunk nor incapable of safe driving, and I propose today that we reexamine how we approach this issue, with an eye toward fairness, as well as toward safety."

He'd get my vote.

GoldSpider: If my representatives fight for causes opposite of of those who elected them into office, I'd say they are in fact NOT doing their job well.

Interesting. So are you saying that, after he co-sponsored this resolution and then won reelection with 70% of the vote, he was in fact doing a good job?

Bufu: The depiction of MADD above is painfully accurate. But no legislator is going to stand up and say, "I believe our state's drunk driving laws are overly strict and are adversely affecting citizens who, while at or just over the legal limit as defined by prevailing mores, are neither drunk nor incapable of safe driving, and I propose today that we reexamine how we approach this issue, with an eye toward fairness, as well as toward safety."

Get back to me when you can prove beyond a doubt that motor skills at a 0.08 BAC are not significantly different from that of someone with a 0.0 BAC.

If you're driving, have one drink. It's that simple.

moops: InferiousX: 90% of the drinking populace is capable of safely operating a vehicle at 0.08 BAC.

That's your opinion - you have nothing to back it up.

I have common sense.

I do love drunk driving threads on fark - it's the only place where the ignorant can come out and defend drunk driving. You won't see that in any other arena because it's such an untenable position.

I've actually had this discussion with people in person who disagreed with me. They were mostly non-drinkers but I usually get out of them a few times when they were probably technically over the legal limit but drove anyway. To which I follow up "Well do you believe you were a danger to others after 3 glasses of wine in an hour and a half and should have gone to jail?"

"Well...."

I'm not advocating getting behind the wheel after doing a dozen shots of Jager to wash down a twelve pack. But with the current BAC limit if you have two beers in one hour your are technically DUI which I belive for most people is within their tolerance levels.

Bufu: I don't think anybody's defending drunk driving, moops.

The depiction of MADD above is painfully accurate. But no legislator is going to stand up and say, "I believe our state's drunk driving laws are overly strict and are adversely affecting citizens who, while at or just over the legal limit as defined by prevailing mores, are neither drunk nor incapable of safe driving, and I propose today that we reexamine how we approach this issue, with an eye toward fairness, as well as toward safety."

Bufu I say you and I wash down a few then take moops on a road trip =D

InferiousX: But with the current BAC limit if you have two beers in one hour your are technically DUI which I belive for most people is within their tolerance levels.

It doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters that you can back it up. Which you can't.

I believe the moon is actually a giant alien skull.

The New York City has it's own Congress?

moops: InferiousX: But with the current BAC limit if you have two beers in one hour your are technically DUI which I belive for most people is within their tolerance levels.

It doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters that you can back it up. Which you can't.

I believe the moon is actually a giant alien skull.

I understand where you stand moops, but my problem with DUI laws are IMO overzealous. Studies show that talking on a cell phone or sleep deprived people are MORE dangerous than drunk drivers, yet their is very little outcry or legislation addressing those.

In Chicago it's illegal to use a cell phone and drive and I've never heard or seen anyone pulled over for that, in fact I've seen dozens of cops and hundreds of people doing it (often in front of law).

sorry, their=there

moops: InferiousX: But with the current BAC limit if you have two beers in one hour your are technically DUI which I belive for most people is within their tolerance levels.

It doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters that you can back it up. Which you can't.

I believe the moon is actually a giant alien skull.

And I, sir, believe I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

johne3819: Studies show that talking on a cell phone or sleep deprived people are MORE dangerous than drunk drivers, yet their is very little outcry or legislation addressing those.

Let's see the studies then.

BTW, his BAC was 0.17 (pops). He faces mandatory jail time since he was over twice the legal limit. But I'm sure some of you will keep defending the right to drive intoxicated.

moops, just get over your fabulous self already.

NOBODY is defending drunk driving. NOBODY.

moops: johne3819: Studies show that talking on a cell phone or sleep deprived people are MORE dangerous than drunk drivers, yet their is very little outcry or legislation addressing those.

Let's see the studies then.

BTW, his BAC was 0.17 (pops). He faces mandatory jail time since he was over twice the legal limit. But I'm sure some of you will keep defending the right to drive intoxicated.

While I want to insist I am NOT defending drunk driving, but rather the overly harsh sentences. I will give you this site:

http://www.safety.com/articles/driving-while-tired.html

FTFA: The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 100,000 of reported crashes occur as a result of drowsiness, and considers sleep deprived drivers a hazard equal in severity to drunk drivers. Studies show that staying awake for 18 hours and driving produces the same effect as being legally drunk behind the wheel.

/and this is the 'official' saftey site on the Internet ;)

Bufu: NOBODY is defending drunk driving. NOBODY.

johne3819: Studies show that talking on a cell phone or sleep deprived people are MORE dangerous than drunk drivers, yet their is very little outcry or legislation addressing those.

Sounds like it to me.

The thing is, drunk driving is one of the internet topics that makes people who hate authority fume at the ears.

Drunk driving laws are made with the lowest common demoninator in mind; 0.08 is the point where the lowest common denominator cannot operate a vehicle safely. Tough titty for all you internet tough guys who think you're perfectly okay after chugging three beers.

johne3819: FTFA: The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 100,000 of reported crashes occur as a result of drowsiness, and considers sleep deprived drivers a hazard equal in severity to drunk drivers. Studies show that staying awake for 18 hours and driving produces the same effect as being legally drunk behind the wheel.

The topic is drunk driving, not drowsy driving. You're using a red herring.

"Since drowsy driving is a problem, we're clearly being too agressive on people who drive at a 0.08 BAC."

That is your argument. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

NY Times says he blew a .17.

And he has the nerve to call himself a member of the New York congressional delegation. A real Congressional drunk at least passes out on somebody's lawn with his pants around his ankles.

Pat Moynihan used to call .17 a fairly pleasant lunch, then he'd go out on the floor of the Senate and quote at length from memory from Thucydides' history of the Peloponnesian War in the original ancient Greek.

Al D'Amato would put away two bottles of montepulciano with dinner, then smash the empties on the table and go after Democrats with the jagged halves.