The US doesn't even meet those criteria!

When librulls drop ded?

Has there ever been a successful occupation?

m0llusk: Won it in one post.

Osama bin Limbaugh: Has there ever been a successful occupation?

Crack whore?

When the whole site is nuked from orbit. Then we'll know we've won.

When we abandon hubris? Ha! Ha!

/drtfa...yet

Osama bin Limbaugh: Has there ever been a successful occupation?

...you're joking right? Germany? Japan? South Korea? The Confederate States of America? The entire Western portion of... well the entire United States? Italy?

Yes.

1. Democracy
2. Free Speech
3. Hardcore pornography available
4. Booze
5. Religious nutjobs claim there's a liberal conspiracy against them.

I thought a McDonalds and Walmart in every town was the goal. If not, then what are we fighting for?

The existence of Fark.iq?

Latest change in the justification for attacking Iraq:

"Winning the war" has changed to "success in Iraq".

As in, the United States attacked Iraq because the United States wanted to have success in Iraq.

I LIKE WHERE THIS THREAD IS GOING.

(pic not available)

....when they run out of oil.

No wait, it's when the entire country is covered by a "Mission Accomplished" sign viewable only from space. That's when we've won.

/or maybe when that 9/11 eagle stops crying. That's also a victory.

At this point, the current strategy is shifting from "shoot brown people until they stop shooting back" to "just shoot all the the brown people".

Good luck with that.

and it hasnt even started yet.

I can't believe that people still try and defend this debacle.

farkeruk: 1. Democracy
2. Free Speech
3. Hardcore pornography available
4. Booze
5. Religious nutjobs claim there's a liberal conspiracy against them.

Not even that, the basic criteria we are looking for is for the Sunni and Shia insurgencies to disarm or at least stop fighting, and establish a political atmosphere centered around discourse and transparency instead of back stabbing and sectarian killing. Withdrawal will set the timeline for achieving that state of affairs WAY the fark back because they won't even have the level of stability and assistance that they have NOW.

FTFA: Virtually everyone who wants to win this war agrees: Success will have been achieved when Iraq is a stable, representative state that controls its own territory, is oriented toward the West, and is an ally in the struggle against militant Islamism, whether Sunni or Shia. This has been said over and over. Why won't war critics hear it?

Ummm...because it ain't gonna happen while there are foreign occupiers on Iraqi soil?

FTFA: "[...]or it can be partitioned into several more homogeneous territories, each ruled according to its own desires."

Funny how he doesn't get to mentioning how a land's desires are made known, if not by democracy. This sounds to me suspiciously like a euphemism for "let people kill each other until some marginally stable dictator/oligarchy gets established."

I was under the impression that when we refer to a country having "desires" those would represent the views of the majority, not 6 wellconnected guys with swords and a skywizard.

Anyone else tired of being lectured on what we should do in Iraq but the same people who have gotten every single thing wrong throughout this whole ordeal? Show some shame you incompetent boobs!

We are bringing God's Gift of Liberty to the Iraqis. That is the Noble Cause. When we succeed, we win.

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Ummm...because it ain't gonna happen while there are foreign occupiers on Iraqi soil?

They are not killing eachother because the U.S. is there. There is zero causal connection there. They aren't saying "We're gonna keep killing eachother because the U.S. is here."

helix400: The existence of http://Fark.iq?

Hovering right around "retarded"

myself included

I think we should all pay heed to TFA, it's from the future:

How We'll Know When We've Won
A definition of success in Iraq.
by Frederick W. Kagan
05/05/2008, Volume 013, Issue 32

RandomExcess: We are bringing God's Gift of Liberty to the Iraqis. That is the Noble Cause. When we succeed, we win.

Whose god? Ours or theirs? Plus I am still not convinced that you can "give" liberty to anyone.

the war in iraq will come to a successful conclusion when shards of broken glass are shoved up the rectum of everyone who works at the weekly standard.

FTA Success will have been achieved when Iraq is a stable, representative state that controls its own territory, is oriented toward the West, and is an ally in the struggle against militant Islamism, whether Sunni or Shia. This has been said over and over. Why won't war critics hear it?

Because it is not a US driven objective. It allows a foreign country to dictate how and how long we expend our resources and that is unacceptable. It also means that any military action on our part, whether a single objective is achieved or not, is a failure toward the ultimate goal since only when Iraq is handling its own security will this 'victory' be achieved. As 'war critics' have said repeatedly, a stable Iraq is a diplomatic issue, not a military issue.

That's double-plus ungood!.

Investigate 7-Eleven: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Ummm...because it ain't gonna happen while there are foreign occupiers on Iraqi soil?

They are not killing eachother because the U.S. is there. There is zero causal connection there. They aren't saying "We're gonna keep killing eachother because the U.S. is here."

They ARE killing each other because the US went their with no plan for the occupation and no idea what to do after they one. Whether they will keep killing each other after American forces leave is up for debate.

FTFA: (first line even!)

The president's nomination of generals David Petraeus and Raymond Odierno to take command of U.S. Central Command and Multinational Force-Iraq, respectively, was obviously the right decision.

Pretty much stopped reading after this. The only reason Petraeus is taking command of Centcom is to open the doors for us to invade Iran. His predecessor, Adm. William J. Fallon, was the one impediment to Bushco^TM letting loose on a new front in our glorious war. Now that he has "resigned" and Bush's favorite handpuppet has taken his place there is nothing to stop it from happening any more. My guess is that we will soon see more stories coming out of the ME about confrontations in the Straight of Hormuz, and more Iranian weapons cache finds in Iraq, etc. And just in time for the general election. What a coincidence!

Wheeeeeee!

I like where this thread is going.

They ARE killing each other because the US went there their with no plan for the occupation and no idea what to do after they one. Whether they will keep killing each other after American forces leave is up for debate.
Sorry, its a sunday....

I love hearing the word "liberal" from tards who only started (mis)using that word beginning in the year 2000.

MPAVictoria: They ARE killing each other because the US went their with no plan for the occupation and no idea what to do after they one. Whether they will keep killing each other after American forces leave is up for debate.

It's not a causal event. It is correlated and the Bush administration is responsible. The invasion didn't cause them to start killing eachother, the rift between Sunni and Shia societies did. But Bush administration was negligent in not preparing for that.

But the idea that they will stop killing eachother after we leave is moronic. There is zero impetus for their continued violence being supplied be our presence. Our presence is IMPEDING them from fighting on a larger scale.

Success would require not having gone in there in the first place, which, when we patriots suggested so, you traitors called us traitors.

It looks like not only is the shoe on the other foot now, but it's stuck there


.

.

De Tar Baby. Iraq be de Tar Baby.

/Uncle Remus FTW!

EngineerBoy: I think we should all pay heed to TFA, it's from the future:

How We'll Know When We've Won
A definition of success in Iraq.
by Frederick W. Kagan
05/05/2008, Volume 013, Issue 32


Too bad they didn't post the winning lotter numbers

EngineerBoy: I think we should all pay heed to TFA, it's from the future:

How We'll Know When We've Won
A definition of success in Iraq.
by Frederick W. Kagan
05/05/2008, Volume 013, Issue 32

Boobies?

Saddam might have not been the nicest person in the world, but he sure had a knack for keeping the Shiites and the Sunnis from bombing each other constantly...

Investigate 7-Eleven: MPAVictoria: They ARE killing each other because the US went their with no plan for the occupation and no idea what to do after they one. Whether they will keep killing each other after American forces leave is up for debate.

It's not a causal event. It is correlated and the Bush administration is responsible. The invasion didn't cause them to start killing eachother, the rift between Sunni and Shia societies did. But Bush administration was negligent in not preparing for that.

But the idea that they will stop killing eachother after we leave is moronic. There is zero impetus for their continued violence being supplied be our presence. Our presence is IMPEDING them from fighting on a larger scale.

I would argue that there is a causal relationship. They would not be killing each other if you had not invaded. That seems pretty causal to me. And on of the reasons they are still killing each other is that they have no incentive to compromise as long as you stay. If you outline a timetable they might be forced to get their act together.

I like where this thread is going.

-Admirable goals, the question is how much time, gold, and American blood is an acceptable price to get there? It's been 5 years, how about 10? 20? 50? How many trillions of taxpayer money? How many thousands of dead U.S. soldiers? 'Oriented towards the West'? Is that an achievable goal in anyone's playbook? Is there even an outline of a plan to get such a thing? How many generations would that take? This thing is so huge that there's no doubt that the architects of had absolutely no farking idea what they were doing when they started it. They were stupid, and they lied to us, pure and simple, why should we listen any further to them and why have they never been held accountable for thet monstrous deception they perpetrated on America?

Terminology, people.

It's not a war. It's an occupation.
You win an occupation by occupying.
We are currently winning the occupation.
Ta-da!
Can we declare victory and go home now?

WAY too many liberals in here to have an intelligent discussion on this important topic.

No matter how WELL this Iraq situation turns out, there will STILL be people calling it a mistake...

Until the Iraq economy becomes so strong it overtakes our own. That will be success... kinda...

thank you thank you thank you I'm working right now and I am SOOOOOOO bored, this thread is just what i needed!