The U.S.Justice Department (under Bush): making sure that all who serve can evade justice.

CIA's mandate was OUTSIDE US borders.

Dubya changed that, forgetting about the "above the law" detail

Someone phone Steven Seagal!

Lovely. Please tell me that we're going to start the War Crimes Tribunal sometime shortly after Jan 22, 2008 to put on trial anyone who violated international law, or excused violations of it. That's what this all boils down to: this administration and its cronies have committed War Crimes and should be treated as such.

You spineless pussies dont realize that without these 'interrogation techniques' we would not be having the information that has kept us safe since 9/11. Do you think merely dunking someone's head in a bucket of water is irrepairably damaging him? that merely beating them with sticks is going to make them suffer with some shocking conditions like PTSD? Oh! the horror! lets just keep quiet while we inch towards soldier # 5000 in Iraq. Lets rejoice at yet another beheaded American, as promised by Abu Ayyub al-Masri. Let's just bury our heads in the sand & pretend being divine good angels will get us to a safer world. Heil Bush, i say.

You are the spineless pussy, Tobias. You are not willing to take any risks to do what is right. Coward.

Sgygus: You are the spineless pussy, Tobias. You are not willing to take any risks to do what is right. Coward.

I bet he washes his whites with his darks to save time. And thats a huge risk.

'Obvious' tag sleeping ?

Life_is_a_carnivore: 'Obvious' tag sleeping ?

It's being waterboarded.

log_jammin: I bet he washes his whites with his darks to save time. And thats a huge risk.

I try to keep my laundry separate, but equal.

//Thank you, good night.

hard to tell whos being sarcastic-er in this thread... i for one hail our new big brother overl... you know what? fark this....

I AM ABOVE THE LAW!

I blame the Hawaiians, they invented water boarding.

Tobias Rieper: You spineless pussies dont realize that without these 'interrogation techniques' we would not be having the information that has kept us safe since 9/11. Do you think merely dunking someone's head in a bucket of water is irrepairably damaging him? that merely beating them with sticks is going to make them suffer with some shocking conditions like PTSD? Oh! the horror! lets just keep quiet while we inch towards soldier # 5000 in Iraq. Lets rejoice at yet another beheaded American, as promised by Abu Ayyub al-Masri. Let's just bury our heads in the sand & pretend being divine good angels will get us to a safer world. Heil Bush, i say.

People like you are the reason I despise Americans.

You're really going to have to purge these people after the election. If the federal prisons aren't jammed with the previous executive branch you're doing it wrong.

Got to kill the Constitution to save it.

Hey. It's just a piece of paper. We can live in sin, baby.

Let us not forget that the DOJ also regularly exceeds the authority given to it by the Constitution. It was never meant to pass law nor modify it, merely to enforce it.

Link

Not saying it has much to do with the article, but our government has long since deviated from its original framework in so many ways.

OZZ: People like you are the reason I despise Americans.

I love smug people who are dumb as shiat.

"Heil Bush, i say." sorta gives it away.

OZZ: People like you are the reason I despise Americans.

People like you are the reason I despise gullible retards. Hey, let's feed the troll and give him more attention so his jackassery is validated!

Tobias Rieper: You spineless pussies dont realize that without these 'interrogation techniques' we would not be having the information that has kept us safe since 9/11. Do you think merely dunking someone's head in a bucket of water is irrepairably damaging him? that merely beating them with sticks is going to make them suffer with some shocking conditions like PTSD? Oh! the horror! lets just keep quiet while we inch towards soldier # 5000 in Iraq. Lets rejoice at yet another beheaded American, as promised by Abu Ayyub al-Masri. Let's just bury our heads in the sand & pretend being divine good angels will get us to a safer world. Heil Bush, i say.

Wait, we're safer since 9/11? I couldn't tell since the threat level is maroon #17... I'm not really sure what that means, since before the bush administration we didn't need a national threat level indicator to tell us how farked we are.

And, are you really serious about advocating this as saving all these lives, then using the "high" death toll in Iraq to prove your point? If 5000 soldiers have been beheaded in Iraq... then I guess it hasn't been working out so well then, because they've already been doing this.

Seriously, drugs are bad, m-kay? So get off 'em.

I support waterboarding because the people being waterboarded are A-holes, and because I look forward to the day when oil executives get waterboarded, not because I think it makes me safer.

The Justice Department doesn't have the power to decide this. When the current administration is replaced, everything is fair game.

The Geneva Convention applies to COUNTRIES.

Independent military forces that operate outside the law, militias motivated by religious beliefs or profit, are NOT EXPLICITLY dealt with in the Geneva Convention.

Al-Qaida members are not an official military of an official government, neither are Al-Sadr's men.

We observed all Geneva protocol during the *actual* Iraq war. The Iraq war ended when we nabbed Saddam.

This is a reconstruction effort that is being interfered with by many different militias.

They are NOT abiding by the laws of their own country, they are NOT us citizens, their treatment is neither covered by US Law nor the Geneva convention.

Do you know who else thought he was above international law?

Congress to Justice Department (in a even mildly-non-shiatty world): Suck it.

Mr Logo: Do you know who else thought he was above international law?

Big difference. Hitler WAS engaged in a true war (country vs country). We are not. We are not slaughtering Iraqi civilians, our military is defending themselves from independently run militias.

All this will come out, as well as the NECESSITY of the Iraq War, and the fact that there WERE WMD but Saddam got wind of our arrival... It will all come out into the public once Bush is out of office.

Mr Logo: Do you know who else thought he was above international law?

Magneto?

jaedreth: The Geneva Convention applies to COUNTRIES.

Independent military forces that operate outside the law, militias motivated by religious beliefs or profit, are NOT EXPLICITLY dealt with in the Geneva Convention.

Al-Qaida members are not an official military of an official government, neither are Al-Sadr's men.

We observed all Geneva protocol during the *actual* Iraq war. The Iraq war ended when we nabbed Saddam.

This is a reconstruction effort that is being interfered with by many different militias.

They are NOT abiding by the laws of their own country, they are NOT us citizens, their treatment is neither covered by US Law nor the Geneva convention.

The Geneva Convention, if I recall, bans torture. Period.

Tobias Rieper: You spineless pussies dont realize that without these 'interrogation techniques' we would not be having the information that has kept us safe since 9/11. Do you think merely dunking someone's head in a bucket of water is irrepairably damaging him? that merely beating them with sticks is going to make them suffer with some shocking conditions like PTSD? Oh! the horror! lets just keep quiet while we inch towards soldier # 5000 in Iraq. Lets rejoice at yet another beheaded American, as promised by Abu Ayyub al-Masri. Let's just bury our heads in the sand & pretend being divine good angels will get us to a safer world. Heil Bush, i say.

I was gonna respond... but damn, there's no way this isn't a troll

Hoarf: Magneto?

THIS

Sgygus, OZZ, Z1P2

seriously? you actually even bought the 'Heil Bush' part? damn, i'll ask my Nigerian buddies to mail you sometime


log_jammin: I love smug people who are dumb as shiat.

"Heil Bush, i say." sorta gives it away.

haha, what's funny is I'm from California , we're not even Americans!


Bender The Offender: People like you are the reason I despise gullible retards. Hey, let's feed the troll and give him more attention so his jackassery is validated!

fool, if it was a true troll, i would'nt have added a CLEAR addition indicating dripping sarcasm. learn the difference , halfwit.


Hoarf: Mr Logo: Do you know who else thought he was above international law?

Magneto?

funniest post in the thread yet

Hoarf: Mr Logo: Do you know who else thought he was above international law?

Magneto?

THAT

jaedreth: The Geneva Convention applies to COUNTRIES.

Independent military forces that operate outside the law, militias motivated by religious beliefs or profit, are NOT EXPLICITLY dealt with in the Geneva Convention.

Al-Qaida members are not an official military of an official government, neither are Al-Sadr's men.

We observed all Geneva protocol during the *actual* Iraq war. The Iraq war ended when we nabbed Saddam.

This is a reconstruction effort that is being interfered with by many different militias.

They are NOT abiding by the laws of their own country, they are NOT us citizens, their treatment is neither covered by US Law nor the Geneva convention.

The Convention also applies to militias and volunteer corps such as resistance movements, not necessarily nation-states - though an asymmetrical terrorist group that doesn't carry arms openly or a fixed symbol recognizable at a distance doesn't fall under that definition .

That said, they are entitled to the protections under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, particularly Article 5: "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."

well...damn...and zorgon is that you Mr Seagal? ...anyways ..got to run ..bye for now ..thank you.

jaedreth:
They are NOT abiding by the laws of their own country, they are NOT us citizens, their treatment is neither covered by US Law nor the Geneva convention.

Everybody is covered by the Geneva Conventions (there's more than one, you know.)
If you're not a combatant, you're a civilian. If you're a civilian killing people, you're a criminal, and to be treated as such. You're not allowed to torture criminal suspects. Voila.

And there are other relevant treaties and conventions that cover everybody, like the Human Rights Convention and the Convention against Torture. Granted, the US signed that thing with more exceptions and loopholes than even Saudi Arabia, so it probably doesn't count.

The United States is a criminal organization.

LordJiro: The Geneva Convention, if I recall, bans torture. Period.

US law does too. And it doesn't matter where you are when you do it. Torture, like slavery, is prosecutable regardless of where it occurs.

jaedreth: The Geneva Convention applies to COUNTRIES.

Independent military forces that operate outside the law, militias motivated by religious beliefs or profit, are NOT EXPLICITLY dealt with in the Geneva Convention.

Al-Qaida members are not an official military of an official government, neither are Al-Sadr's men.

We observed all Geneva protocol during the *actual* Iraq war. The Iraq war ended when we nabbed Saddam.

This is a reconstruction effort that is being interfered with by many different militias.

They are NOT abiding by the laws of their own country, they are NOT us citizens, their treatment is neither covered by US Law nor the Geneva convention.

OK. Let's run along this line - you're not correct, but since you're obviously brain damaged in some way, I'll ignore that and pretend your right, like when I have to deal with one of my more severely MR students who can't be told they're wrong.

Even if we aren't REQUIRED to give Geneva Convention treatment to non-government aligned rebels, why should we not? Why not give them every protection of the conventions. Frame ourselves as the ones in the right (as we should be)? Why should we sell our souls just to put the screws to them? We're not personally threatened. We want to stop radicals, of course.

My big problem, we're not being personally threatened. They're just taking potshots where they can. Why do we need to act like they're goose-stepping down Pennsylvania Avenue praising Allah? We just need to stop them from hurting troops and other people. We just want them to stop. Not giving them the Geneva protections doesn't help our cause.

Tobias Rieper:
Bender The Offender: People like you are the reason I despise gullible retards. Hey, let's feed the troll and give him more attention so his jackassery is validated!

fool, if it was a true troll, i would'nt have added a CLEAR addition indicating dripping sarcasm. learn the difference , halfwit.



Hey, desperate, petty attention whore, nice Mr. T impression. Why don't you do Joe Piscopo now then we can have a trifecta of your failure at comedy. Why don't you provide me a link to the etiquette of forum trolls so I know which side of the moron spectrum you're clinging to. That'd be super. Oh, and if you could maybe learn some grammar, just a bit of capitalization and appropriate apostophre placement, that'd be great too!

Back to the article... it seems like they are treating torture like busting into someone's home. You need a search warrant, but if the police offer feels very strongly that there's an immediate threat, then they can bust away... or rather, bust into.

Honestly, other than a television series or my own personal entertainment, that whole idea of immediate relevancy seems sorta flimsy... sure, if you know a plane is going to be hijacked tomorrow morning to be rammed into a building... AND you have the cell's controller/handler in your prison... then obviously you're justified to torture this guy to save lives. It's so clear when Jack Bruer does it.

But, you know, when the tips are coming from a pattern of Internet chatter that indicates that something may or may not be planned involving explosives made from fertalizer, paper clips, a movie prop still, and the droppings from the Queen's Corgi... then maybe stacking naked men on cold concrete before doing something sadisticly erotic with their gag reflexes might really only result in false information and a few secret woodies that the guards aren't going to talk about. much.

Still, I don't get out much.

Has the CIA ever actually announced that waterboarding has produced verifiably accurate information useful in preventing a terrorism attack? And, please. I don't mean something that themselves or just Fox News says is verified?

Tobias Reiper:

And you wonder why people from other countries hate us. You, sir, are the reason we are "inching" (if you want to call that inching) towards dead soldier #500 in Iraq.

/Because, you know, it's not because dead soldier #500 was ill-equipped
//or ill-trained to identify, handle, and defuse IEDs
///or allowed to take a break after being in the butthole of planet earth (i.e. Iraq) after 6 months - 1 year
///Sure thing, Heil Bush, you fascist bastard.

Forget about Bush. He has taken complete control over the executive branch and has no power anywhere else. He can't be influenced, and he can't be undercut any more than he already has been. The real question is, who will do the best job of putting these things right: Clinton, Obama, or McCain?

Clinton is obviously the most dangerous. She has embraced the redneck attitude that there is no strength except in balls-out unsubtle aggression. In any situation, she will take the most hard-ass attitude possible, because that's the only way she knows how to project strength. Her fear of looking weak will mean her foreign policy will continue along the lines of Bush & Co., though she may pick different targets.

McCain doesn't have anything to prove in the badass category, and he's against torture. On the other hand, he doesn't have much subtlety, either. A politician who is known as a straight shooter and once rode the Straight Talk Express is either a manipulative genius (like W 2001-2003) or a guy with a pretty limited repertoire. Can he end torture and make it look like an act of strength? Probably so. Can he turn it into a positive advantage? I don't know.

Obama, on the other hand, is the king of sweet. He's been doing it all his life. How else does a guy get to be leading presidential candidate and still have a reputation as a soft, untested, essentially nice guy? Those soft hands are covered in warm, sticky, ... is that honey? Yep, he kills with honey. Obama will end torture, and when he does it, the terrorists will feel it like a punch in the nuts. A brown-skinned man named Obama gets up on television and says his country won't torture enemy combatants? Race-baiting works both ways. Obama's name and brown skin will mean as much to angry Muslims in the Middle East as they mean to our less enlightened folks here in the US. They'll be ten times as likely to believe in our good intentions towards Muslims, and the Al Qaeda recruiters will find themselves talking to a brick wall. You know how everybody just believed that JFK was a wonderful man? That's how the entire world will feel about Obama. Let's put that star power and ethnic appeal to work for American interests.

Bender The Offender: Oh, and if you could maybe learn some grammar, just a bit of capitalization and appropriate apostophre placement, that'd be great too!

ah, grammar. the last ditch straw that the bitterly shamed , grasp for.

what's truly funny is, you spelled apostrophe wrong. nice work there , vacuum-skull.

GOP = enemy of America

Trollerific thread. Did someone give all the trolls a huge bag of coke last night or what?

Y'all done been trolled.

Sarcasm detectors fixed cheap.

Justice department to Congress: The CIA is above the law

Ideal world response:

Congress to Justice department: If you refuse to do your job, we refuse to allocate money to your budget.

(Expected) Real world response: Hokey doke. Just thought we'd check first.

The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is an independent US Government agency responsible for providing national security intelligence to senior US policymakers.

Now who's your favorite senior US policymaker.

sentient_being: Trollerific thread. Did someone give all the trolls a huge bag of coke last night or what?

Wasn't me.

Considering the absolutely shiatty ability of international law to prevent rogue nation-states from being jackasses (see Iraq´s 1991 Invasion of Kuwait or Hamas´ use of civilians as both targets and munitions delivery vehicles), I´ll let the Christians In Action decide how to get info out of extremists with an Allah complexes, not some random Dutchmen.

/International Law implies that all political entities on the planet are rational and just. That is not the case, ergo it is only restrictive to the good guys.

Tobias Rieper:

seriously? you actually even bought the 'Heil Bush' part? damn, i'll ask my Nigerian buddies to mail you sometime

When people really do sit in these threads and argue for the use of torture just in case bin Ladin's cousin's, uncle's, father's, best friend's roommate thinks one of the plots to 24 is a "How to" guide, it gets really hard to tell the trolls from the true believers.