what i think clinton doesn't understand is that by making even more of the country hate her, she won't stand a chance in 2012, and every day she stays in her chance in 2012 actually gets smaller.

burndtdan: what i think clinton doesn't understand is that by making even more of the country hate her, she won't stand a chance in 2012, and every day she stays in her chance in 2012 actually gets smaller.

Enough of the country already hates her enough that you wouldn't even think she had a chance this year, but here we are.

Don't think so. 2008 is her only chance. She's sticking in because of the hope of buyers remorse.

Someone's off the Clinton's Christmas card list!

Dancin_In_Anson: Don't think so. 2008 is her only chance. She's sticking in because of the hope of buyers remorse.

No her strategists are telling her that if she can damage Obama enough that he cannot win in November... and after another four years of a dysfunctional Republican administration the country will beg her to take the job.

This may seem like a dumb strategy... but you have to keep in mind that her operation is generating almost $15 Million a month in salaries. It is in the best interest of her strategists to feed her this line and keep the pay days coming.

Code_Archeologist: Dancin_In_Anson: Don't think so. 2008 is her only chance. She's sticking in because of the hope of buyers remorse.

No her strategists are telling her that if she can damage Obama enough that he cannot win in November... and after another four years of a dysfunctional Republican administration the country will beg her to take the job.

This may seem like a dumb strategy... but you have to keep in mind that her operation is generating almost $15 Million a month in salaries. It is in the best interest of her strategists to feed her this line and keep the pay days coming.

Your point was echoed by Chris Matthews this week. He was observing how most "chief strategists" don't take pay from the campaign. They do it because they believe in the cause.

Not so much with Hillary's highly paid staff.

I think her biggest problem in 2012 will be the Nixon (c1960) factor. She's going to lose (more) eye appeal in the next 4 years. Shallow view indeed but you have to account for the shallowness that is the run of the ill American voter.

Dancin_In_Anson: the run of the ill American voter.

Run of the Ill American voters:

BooBoo23: Run of the Ill American voters:

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I haven't heard that in ages!

Sounds like Clyburn's undecided superdelegate vote can be chalked up as one more against Hill-Rod.

so she is actually trying to get John McCain elected? Does she have ANY idea how bad that is??

I hope and pray that Senator Snowe decides to run for president in 2012. We will NEVER have to hear from Clinton again.

I don't think she thought her cunning plan all the way through. Obama can still run in 2012 and he will beat her then too.

CravenMorehead: I don't think she thought her cunning plan all the way through. Obama can still run in 2012 and he will beat her then too.

But he probably won't run in 2012. That has been mentioned a couple of times on the campaign trail, that it was going to be now or never.

Code_Archeologist: But he probably won't run in 2012. That has been mentioned a couple of times on the campaign trail, that it was going to be now or never.

If he doesn't win the Presidency, I can see him running for governor of Illinois after a term or two in the Senate.

Still, Clyburn said "I don't think she ought to drop out."

How about tuning in and turning on?

That makes absolutely no sense. You don't stay in a race for a chance later. You get out of the race for chance later (a la Romney). If Obama gets the nomination and loses to McCain Hillary will be blamed and the Clintons know that

Not to mention that Obama would (should) be the incumbent in 2012.

what_now: so she is actually trying to get John McCain elected? Does she have ANY idea how bad that is??

I hope and pray that Senator Snowe decides to run for president in 2012. We will NEVER have to hear from Clinton again.

I want the Governor of AK to run in 2012 (or 16), just so I can use the phrase "President Hot-Ass."

Hang On Voltaire

That makes absolutely no sense. You don't stay in a race for a chance later. You get out of the race for chance later (a la Romney). If Obama gets the nomination and loses to McCain Hillary will be blamed and the Clintons know that


I feel dirty for completely agreeing with Hang On Voltaire about something.

I despise both Hillary AND Bill. Was a strong Reaganite in the 1980s.

That said....

If the headline is true, then how is Hillary scorched earth 2008-12 different from Reagan scorched earth 1976-80 (from a political strategy point of view)?

The Homer Tax


I want the Governor of AK to run in 2012 (or 16), just so I can use the phrase "President Hot-Ass."


I was planning on using that phrase for Hillary.

Don't some of you hear yourself? Talking about super delegates----what the hell is that? The R,s are going to have a MegaMonsterDelegate that can eat superdelegates for lunch! It's going to be huge with hollow eyes, sharp teeth, and it wont be afraid of kryptonite either.
This MMD will do all the voting and so it will be useless to even go to the polls.
Yeah--thats it----Go get 'em MegaMonsterDelegate--chew them up!

Hang On Voltaire: That makes absolutely no sense. You don't stay in a race for a chance later. You get out of the race for chance later (a la Romney). If Obama gets the nomination and loses to McCain Hillary will be blamed and the Clintons know that

I agree it's a stretch, but the rationale depends on beating down Obama enough that McCain makes short work of him. If Obama wins she can't run again until 2016 and she'll be 68 years old then.

I thought Hillary Clinton was staying in the race because Barack Obama had not secured the requisite number of delegates to secure the nomination.

Code_Archeologist: CravenMorehead: I don't think she thought her cunning plan all the way through. Obama can still run in 2012 and he will beat her then too.

But he probably won't run in 2012. That has been mentioned a couple of times on the campaign trail, that it was going to be now or never.

Yeah, but the candidates who DO run will be part of his spiritual legacy. It'll be Hillary running against people with similar resumes to Obama's, but the age/attitude gap will be even greater.

Hang On Voltaire

If Obama gets the nomination and loses to McCain Hillary will be blamed and the Clintons know that

Ordinarily I would say good point and completely agree with you, but given the behavior of the Clinton campaign, I am skeptical. They have been quite successful in controlling the media narrative and managing public perceptions so they may even be confident of pulling off a contrary perception. ("Maybe we shouldn't have nominated Obama" as opposed to "This is because of Hillary")

Though she may "know" this, I no longer trust her to feel that she will not try to "get away with it".

soy_bomb: I thought Hillary Clinton was staying in the race because Barack Obama had not secured the requisite number of delegates to secure the nomination.

Governor Huckabee, is that you?

Hang On Voltaire: That makes absolutely no sense. You don't stay in a race for a chance later. You get out of the race for chance later (a la Romney). If Obama gets the nomination and loses to McCain Hillary will be blamed and the Clintons know that

spot on.

The best analogy I heard for this race was in a thread yesterday where someone said Obama had won the first 4 games of a 7 game series but Hillary had just won game 5, so she was only getting warmed up for game 6 and 7 blowouts.


/paraphrasing, but you get the point

Edsel: Governor Huckabee, is that you?

No I am not, but you are right, that is exactly what Huckabee did and I don't remember McCain crying like a little biatch about it. Maybe Obama supporters need to "man up" a little bit and not be so afraid of a girl challenging them.

I'm not a Clinton fan, but this is purely:

con·jec·ture
Pronunciation:
\kən-ˈjek-chər\
Function:
noun
"a: inference from defective or presumptive evidence b: a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork"

Edsel: Enough of the country already hates her enough that you wouldn't even think she had a chance this year, but here we are.

Never underestimate the voting power of the poor, uneducated, and the old.

Edsel: I agree it's a stretch, but the rationale depends on beating down Obama enough that McCain makes short work of him. If Obama wins she can't run again until 2016 and she'll be 68 years old then.

That's where the problem is. She could go Armageddon on Obama and ensure that he loses the general election, but that would be too obvious, and would destroy any political future she would have. If Obama were to win two terms she would be facing the same age questions that McCain is, and in those eight years another Democrat would be in a good position to make a run.

soy_bomb: I thought Hillary Clinton was staying in the race because Barack Obama had not secured the requisite number of delegates to secure the nomination.

I think we have a winner!
The Last Man in America Who Takes a Clinton at Face Value.

soy_bomb: Edsel: Governor Huckabee, is that you?

No I am not, but you are right, that is exactly what Huckabee did and I don't remember McCain crying like a little biatch about it. Maybe Obama supporters need to "man up" a little bit and not be so afraid of a girl challenging them.

The more pressing question is "Why can't McCain put away Ron Paul?"

soy_bomb: No I am not, but you are right, that is exactly what Huckabee did and I don't remember McCain crying like a little biatch about it. Maybe Obama supporters need to "man up" a little bit and not be so afraid of a girl challenging them.

The difference is that Huckabee knew he couldn't win the nomination, he just wanted the voters to have choice. He isn't making claims that McCain can't win the general and launching attacks at every term.

Edsel: If Obama wins she can't run again until 2016 and she'll be 68 years old then.

69 by the time of the election, actually.

You know who else was 69 when he ran for president?

soy_bomb:
Maybe Obama supporters need to "man up" a little bit and not be so afraid of a girl challenging them

That is sexist!!!!!

Opiate of the Lasses: The best analogy I heard for this race was in a thread yesterday where someone said Obama had won the first 4 games of a 7 game series but Hillary had just won game 5, so she was only getting warmed up for game 6 and 7 blowouts.

Actually that is a horrible analogy. The Democratic nomination is based on obtaining a number of delegates not winning a certain number of games. Hillary is only behind by 7% in elected delegates and is ahead by 9% in super-delegates. If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

The Homer Tax: The more pressing question is "Why can't McCain put away Ron Paul?"

No mental institution will take Ron Paul...

soy_bomb: If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

Except that a) the popular vote isn't what counts, and b) Obama is in the lead in the popular vote.

Nice try tho.

soy_bomb

Hillary is only behind by 7% in elected delegates and is ahead by 9% in super-delegates. If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

Yes. YES. YES! Thank you. Why can't those idiots realize that :
Caucuses don't matter.
Michigan and Florida count. (Serves Bambi right for taking his name off the ballot)
Overall delegate count is meaningless. Everyone can switch and they will- to Hillary.

I am just tired of people trying to use things like CONTEXT and RULES.

bronyaur1: I despise both Hillary AND Bill. Was a strong Reaganite in the 1980s.

That said....

If the headline is true, then how is Hillary scorched earth 2008-12 different from Reagan scorched earth 1976-80 (from a political strategy point of view)?

Because Reagan had that sunny disposition! Only thing sunny about Clinton are her bright yellow pantsuits.

If she keeps this up, she'll be lucky to have a senatorial seat in four years, let alone a chairmanship.

Shrugging Atlas: Never underestimate the voting power of the poor, uneducated, and the old.

Hahahahahahaha! That's great! Anyone remember when that was the Democrats' target audience and they were proud of it? Of course back then they were the impoverished, the disadvantaged and seniors, but there wasn't a Democrat on the planet who would think of discounting their votes.

Now comes Obama, who is running on a platform designed around the old liberal programs for those very people and he'd already be the nominee if only they were smart enough to vote for him. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Are you guys sure Karl Rove doesn't have a picture of Howard Dean with a goat or something? Because he's pretty much clearly controlling the rhetoric of your party's nominating process.

soy_bomb: Opiate of the Lasses: The best analogy I heard for this race was in a thread yesterday where someone said Obama had won the first 4 games of a 7 game series but Hillary had just won game 5, so she was only getting warmed up for game 6 and 7 blowouts.

Actually that is a horrible analogy. The Democratic nomination is based on obtaining a number of delegates not winning a certain number of games. Hillary is only behind by 7% in elected delegates and is ahead by 9% in super-delegates. If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

Why do people keep saying this, SHE IS NOT AHEAD IN POPULAR VOTES. If you count FL, she is behind, and how in the fark can you count MI when he WASN'T ON THE BALLOT?! Even still counting either is stupid because they didn't campaign there, and we have all seen how that changes outcomes, plus it was months ago when the dynamics of the race were completely different.

Secondly, if Obama loses to McCain, you better believe she will be shrieking like a harpy that she woulda won and thats what we get, don't believe me, go to hiullaryis44.com for some insight into he state of mind.

soy_bomb: If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

Please stop this shiat right now. It makes it hard to take you seriously when you put out such a bullshiat argument. Only if you count Florida, and allot ZERO Michigan votes to Obama is Hillary in the lead. That is the most twisted dishonest piece of spin to have emerged from her campaign yet. And that's saying something.

Also caucus states don't give vote totals. I just don't even know where to begin with this. I hate her more daily, and I hate supporters who parrot this line. I can't even blame her, but I can blame people who know better.

1000 Hurts: Secondly, if Obama loses to McCain, you better believe she will be shrieking like a harpy that she woulda won and thats what we get, don't believe me, go to hiullaryis44.com for some insight into he state of mind.

This. This is the only reason Hillary is staying in the race. The longer she stays, the higher likelihood of this outcome being true.

1000 Hurts: soy_bomb: Opiate of the Lasses: The best analogy I heard for this race was in a thread yesterday where someone said Obama had won the first 4 games of a 7 game series but Hillary had just won game 5, so she was only getting warmed up for game 6 and 7 blowouts.

Actually that is a horrible analogy. The Democratic nomination is based on obtaining a number of delegates not winning a certain number of games. Hillary is only behind by 7% in elected delegates and is ahead by 9% in super-delegates. If you count all votes cast for the nomination, Hillary is in the lead in the popular vote.

Why do people keep saying this, SHE IS NOT AHEAD IN POPULAR VOTES. If you count FL, she is behind, and how in the fark can you count MI when he WASN'T ON THE BALLOT?! Even still counting either is stupid because they didn't campaign there, and we have all seen how that changes outcomes, plus it was months ago when the dynamics of the race were completely different.

Secondly, if Obama loses to McCain, you better believe she will be shrieking like a harpy that she woulda won and thats what we get, don't believe me, go to hiullaryis44.com for some insight into he state of mind.

If you count Florida and Michigan, and give Michigan's uncommitted votes to Obama, he comes out ahead.

/See, everyone can do fuzzy election math!

soy_bomb:

I thought Hillary Clinton was staying in the race because Barack Obama had not secured the requisite number of delegates to secure the nomination.

He's just made it so unlikely statistically that we'd have a better chance of being visited by little green men from Alpha Centauri than Hillary does of winning the Democratic nomination.