It was actually a pretty good talk from him, in its entirety. He blamed the Bush administration, its lack of foresight on the size of the impending problem, putting inexperienced people in important roles, and Congress for spending money on stupid things instead of priority infrastructure improvements. He took the opportunity to separate himself both from Bush and the Democrats, whom he identified as habitual pork barrel spenders, while framing himself as a fighter for rational, cost-benefit justified budgeting. He was direct, relaxed and didn't gaffe.

He also flat out (but politely) turned down some pro reporters' raised hands to answer questions from student reporters that were present. A pretty good outing, all-in-all.

Here's the list of his votes against aid to Katrina victims.

Link (new window)

mrCasual - It was actually a pretty good talk from him, in its entirety...

Interesting. He's pulling out the Maverick card again.

mrCasual: He took the opportunity to separate himself both from Bush and the Democrats, whom he identified as habitual pork barrel spenders, while framing himself as a fighter for rational, cost-benefit justified budgeting. He was direct, relaxed and didn't gaffe.

McCain as Prez would be something like a mafia informant, or a bankrobber working as a consultant for bank security. Here's a guy who has observed up close and personal all the stupid, dirty, wasteful and corrupt shiat Congress does for the last twenty years. He knows who the troublemakers are, how they derail legislation, and how to best turn the screws on them. Comparable to Lyndon Johnson, McCain could be someone with the know-how and guts to kick the right ass in Congress to push ahead reform legislation.

Obdicut: Here's the list of his votes against aid to Katrina victims.

Link (new window)

In a recent interview, he said he didn't vote for the spending because he knew it would get misallocated. Which it did. Not a bad position to take under the circumstances.

TheAbstractor: In a recent interview, he said he didn't vote for the spending because he knew it would get misallocated. Which it did. Not a bad position to take under the circumstances.

Ah, that's why he submitted all of those bill allocating the money properly.

Oh wait, he didn't do that.

That's why he spent his time organizing non-profit response to help out, using his considerable influence.

Oh wait, he didn't do that either.

That's why he publicly called up Bush at the time to respond more quickly and fervently.

Oh wait, he didn't do that either.


When the only thing you can say about your leadership during a crisis is, "I didn't vote for relief funds for fear they'd be misallocated", you can't really criticize anyone else's response, let alone claim you do a better job. Jesus, what a lame talking point.

Obdicut: TheAbstractor: In a recent interview, he said he didn't vote for the spending because he knew it would get misallocated. Which it did. Not a bad position to take under the circumstances.

Ah, that's why he submitted all of those bill allocating the money properly.

Oh wait, he didn't do that.

That's why he spent his time organizing non-profit response to help out, using his considerable influence.

Oh wait, he didn't do that either.

That's why he publicly called up Bush at the time to respond more quickly and fervently.

Oh wait, he didn't do that either.


When the only thing you can say about your leadership during a crisis is, "I didn't vote for relief funds for fear they'd be misallocated", you can't really criticize anyone else's response, let alone claim you do a better job. Jesus, what a lame talking point.

Give the man a break. He showed up without an inflatable kayak.

That puts him way ahead of his lame showing in Iraq.

Obdicut: Here's the list of his votes against aid to Katrina victims.

Are you suggesting that Senator Flippy McFlopsalot is not the stalwart paragon of integrity that his media lapdogs portray him as?

Shocked, I say....

And least he is consistent in his opposition to tax breaks for wealthy- oh, wait...
Well, when it comes to being anti-torture, he has been resolute in his moral opposition to- oh, wait...
But I do admire his principled stand against "agents of intolerance" that he so boldly- oh, wait....

Well, it takes quite a maverick to trade in deeply held convictions to pander for votes, so, way to go Senator Maverick!

/plus, his jokes about starting a war with Iran are frickin' hilarious!

He's separating himself from Bush. He knows that the Democrats are trying to portray him as an older version of Dubya. He's trying to head it off.

Republicans talking about Katrina are like coal barons talking about Sago. Either own up and apologize or go eat a bag of gummi peach cocks.

Have you heard the latest cant from the red-staters? Wal-Mart employees are happy as unionless welfare-cheats and the Evil Empire is okay because they were the first to get bottled water to Katrina victims.

John McCain's just a Reagan re-run and his supporters come from the same change-ya-twice-a-week raisin ranch.

When did he grow a backbone?????

60+ demographic will buy whatever Johnny will sell.

mrCasual: It was actually a pretty good talk from him, in its entirety. He blamed the Bush administration, its lack of foresight on the size of the impending problem, putting inexperienced people in important roles, and Congress for spending money on stupid things instead of priority infrastructure improvements. He took the opportunity to separate himself both from Bush and the Democrats, whom he identified as habitual pork barrel spenders, while framing himself as a fighter for rational, cost-benefit justified budgeting. He was direct, relaxed and didn't gaffe.

He also flat out (but politely) turned down some pro reporters' raised hands to answer questions from student reporters that were present. A pretty good outing, all-in-all.

You're on the wrong website, friend.

cltbuilder: He's separating himself from Bush. He knows that the Democrats are trying to portray him as an older version of Dubya. He's trying to head it off.

If that's so, he's going to have a helluva time trying to remove all those pics that are on the Intarwebz of him snuggling on Bush and eating cake with him.

Not to mention Dubya's giving him the nod for GOP candidate and treating him to an 'intimate' hot dog lunch at the White House.

/ I can has brain bleach?
// NOW pls?

SpiderQueenDemon: Republicans talking about Katrina are like coal barons talking about Sago. Either own up and apologize or go eat a bag of gummi peach cocks.

So Republicans should "own up and apologize" for the hurricane? Aside from the failtastic notion of blaming the incumbent party for bad weather, who is really the most responsible for the destruction of 50 year old government subsidized slums, built below sea-level, and represented by Democrats for the last century. Whom will you give credit for the Alabama/Mississippi coasts (who actually got the brunt of the storm) recovering so quickly, which are solidly Republican regions?

Or come 2009, bad weather won't be a problem once the Obamassiah ascends to power. He can just wave his magic Presidential juju stick and preach about hope and change until the hurricanes go away. He's a much better choice than a seasoned lawmaker who actually might have a slight sliver of policy experience needed to fix the bureaucratic messes were in.

Yup, McCain wouldn't have been wasting time at a photo op, unlike GW, while New Orleans drowned.

Where was he that day, again?



Oh..

TheAbstractor: SpiderQueenDemon: Republicans talking about Katrina are like coal barons talking about Sago. Either own up and apologize or go eat a bag of gummi peach cocks.

So Republicans should "own up and apologize" for the hurricane?

The response. Do try to keep up.

Give McCain a break. My friends, he was napping during Hurricane Katrina.

Remove all Republicans: "Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" is another way he's separating himself. He may claim to be better domestically but he's more crazy internationally.

Yes, because there's surely no diplomatic benefit to having a cranky old man known for flying off the handle running the largest war-machine in human civilization when dealing with belligerent but fundamentally weak rogue states. If I were Iran and McCain got election, I'd think it wise to get the fark off his lawn.

TheAbstractor: Remove all Republicans: "Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" is another way he's separating himself. He may claim to be better domestically but he's more crazy internationally.

Yes, because there's surely no diplomatic benefit to having a cranky old man known for flying off the handle running the largest war-machine in human civilization when dealing with belligerent but fundamentally weak rogue states. If I were Iran and McCain got election, I'd think it wise to get the fark off his lawn.

The stupid is strong with this.

So no one here read the Popular Mechanics takedown of the "Katrina was Federal Fumbling" myth?

Text Excerpt......

"MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall."

And an other......

"ONE OF THE BIGGEST reminders from Katrina is that FEMA is not a first responder."

A straight-up comparison of the Federal response to Katrina to the Fed response to every other natural disaster in the last three decades shows Fed help getting in play faster, with more resources, more people, and more equipment. The difference in results was due to the TOTAL INCOMPETENCE and CORRUPTION of the local city, parish, and state administrations.

Local evacuation and response plans were inadequate and poorly executed. No help for sick, infirm, or poor residents to evacuate was available. Local evacuation centers in case of flooding were situated IN LOW LYING areas. And several million dollars provided by the Feds to locals well before Katrina to address all these issues were embezzled or stolen - with several indictments for theft & fraud already announced pre-K.

FEMA is NOT the first-responder, it never has been and it never will be. It's supposed to bring help to localities in the days FOLLOWING a disaster - which it DID. But apparently when the City Mayor, the Parish Administration, and the State Governor are all (D)s, it's somehow the Fed's fault that the locals were too busy stealing from the public treasury for the past 30 60 years to set aside the effort needed to plan for flooding in a city located ON THE COAST and BELOW SEA LEVEL.

USP .45: You're on the wrong website, friend.

I take the role of dispassionate observer with a bent toward devil's advocate. I'm registered Repub, but have been very interested in the Dem primaries, for sake of political process analysis, and review of media behavior.

I often assume the job of explaining how Hillary has a plausible case for taking the nomination, and, here, that's taken as Obama bashing, or shilling for Clinton. In reality, though, I can't stand that woman, and if I found myself in the same room as her, I'd probably bunch her in the dick. But, I try to stay above that in discussions.

In this case, the headline, and the article, didn't really reflect what I heard in the talk from McCain (thanks to XM130, which I openly pimp as good coverage) so it seemed worth a couple minutes to type up a summary of my opinion of it.

bmasso: So no one here read the Popular Mechanics takedown of the "Katrina was Federal Fumbling" myth?

Text Excerpt......

"MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall."

And an other......

"ONE OF THE BIGGEST reminders from Katrina is that FEMA is not a first responder."

A straight-up comparison of the Federal response to Katrina to the Fed response to every other natural disaster in the last three decades shows Fed help getting in play faster, with more resources, more people, and more equipment. The difference in results was due to the TOTAL INCOMPETENCE and CORRUPTION of the local city, parish, and state administrations.

Local evacuation and response plans were inadequate and poorly executed. No help for sick, infirm, or poor residents to evacuate was available. Local evacuation centers in case of flooding were situated IN LOW LYING areas. And several million dollars provided by the Feds to locals well before Katrina to address all these issues were embezzled or stolen - with several indictments for theft & fraud already announced pre-K.

FEMA is NOT the first-responder, it never has been and it never will be. It's supposed to bring help to localities in the days FOLLOWING a disaster - which it DID. But apparently when the City Mayor, the Parish Administration, and the State Governor are all (D)s, it's somehow the Fed's fault that the locals were too busy stealing from the public treasury for the past 30 60 years to set aside the effort needed to plan for flooding in a city located ON THE COAST and BELOW SEA LEVEL.

It is pretty amazing how leaders on both sides of the aisle, including McCain, seem to disagree with you.

boomaze: bmasso: So no one here read the Popular Mechanics takedown of the "Katrina was Federal Fumbling" myth?
..........

It is pretty amazing how leaders on both sides of the aisle, including McCain, seem to disagree with you.

Leaders on the (D) side of the aisle are trying their hardest to pretend that Louisiana is/was not a Democrat-run sink-pool of corruption, waste, fraud, and incompetence.

McCain is pandering to the "Bush hates Blacks" crowd in an attempt to play the maverick card, and prove he's not running as Bush the Third.

Regardless - unless you want to address the FACTS in the Pop.Mech. article,
you're just knee-jerking if you believe George Bush should be blamed for Louisiana
local authority's poor response to Katrina. Mississippi got hit just as hard as Louisiana,
why wasn't the news full of articles about the bad response there? Because THERE the locals
didn't have their heads up their asses and didn't expect the Feds to show up to hold their
hands day-1 - instead of on day-3 like FEMA always does.

growinthings: When did he grow a backbone?????

Never?

bmasso: boomaze: bmasso: So no one here read the Popular Mechanics takedown of the "Katrina was Federal Fumbling" myth?
..........

It is pretty amazing how leaders on both sides of the aisle, including McCain, seem to disagree with you.

Leaders on the (D) side of the aisle are trying their hardest to pretend that Louisiana is/was not a Democrat-run sink-pool of corruption, waste, fraud, and incompetence.

McCain is pandering to the "Bush hates Blacks" crowd in an attempt to play the maverick card, and prove he's not running as Bush the Third.

Regardless - unless you want to address the FACTS in the Pop.Mech. article,
you're just knee-jerking if you believe George Bush should be blamed for Louisiana
local authority's poor response to Katrina. Mississippi got hit just as hard as Louisiana,
why wasn't the news full of articles about the bad response there? Because THERE the locals
didn't have their heads up their asses and didn't expect the Feds to show up to hold their
hands day-1 - instead of on day-3 like FEMA always does.

Hurrrrrrrrr!!!!

Remove all Republicans: TheAbstractor: So Republicans should "own up and apologize" for the hurricane? Aside from the failtastic notion of blaming the incumbent party for bad weather

It wasn't the Democrats who rejected Kyoto. Hurricane forces have been on the rise since then. Someone is not happy with you Republicans.

Wrong. On Both counts.

Re; #1....

"On July 27, 1997, the Senate voted by a margin of 95-0 that the United States would not sign a treaty structured like the Kyoto Protocol. That treaty, which proponents claimed would improve the environment, had harsher economic penalties for the United States than it did for countries like China, even though 16 of the 20 most polluted cities in the world are in China.

As a result of the Senate's lopsided vote, President Clinton never bothered to submit the Kyoto Protocol for ratification. So it seems a bit strange that the Associated Press would claim:

The United States is no longer bound by Kyoto, which the Bush administration rejected after taking office in 2001.

First of all, the United States was never bound by Kyoto. And the reason the U.S. was never bound by Kyoto is because the treaty was never ratified. President Clinton never even submitted it for ratification. Why didn't he? Because every Senator-Republican and Democrat alike-who voted on the 1997 resolution made it clear that they would oppose ratifying Kyoto.

All of this took place years before President Bush was in office, but it seems that AP is more concerned with blaming Bush than getting its facts straight."

From the archives of Brain-terminal.com.

Re; #2 ......

It's true that GCC alarmists PREDICTED that storms would be MUCH more intense.
It's also true that those predictions have yet to pan out. Katrina wasn't a "perfect storm"
of a hurricane, it wasn't more powerful than many other previous ones, we just had
the bad luck that it hit landfall where it did.

Remove all Republicans: It wasn't the Democrats who rejected Kyoto. Hurricane forces have been on the rise since then. Someone is not happy with you Republicans.

... yeah, but then again New Orleans wasn't a Republican city, was it? Maybe they should have done more to make sure it did get passed.

+1 headline, said all that needed to be said

/which is why I won't read any of these comments
//old news, exciting, etc
///fodder to divert attention from real issues

John McCain's minister says that Katrina was God's punishment for a gay pride parade. I gotta wonder how proactive McCain would be in the face of divine retribution like that.



Pastor Hagee: Katrina Struck New Orleans Because Of Homosexual Rally (new window)

Remove all Republicans: TheAbstractor: So Republicans should "own up and apologize" for the hurricane? Aside from the failtastic notion of blaming the incumbent party for bad weather

It wasn't the Democrats who rejected Kyoto. Hurricane forces have been on the rise since then. Someone is not happy with you Republicans.

You need to find something else to complain about the global warming thing is starting to lose steam, even the leader of Greenpeace said its a crock. Ray Nagin is at fault for not evacuating the "chocolate city", he let all those buses rot on the vine. He should have known better than to wait on the government, but when you grow up in an enviroment of entitlement and expect the government to do everything for you things like that happen.

Flying Lasagna Monster: farm3.static.flickr.com

Thanks for that.

syzygy whizz: cltbuilder: He's separating himself from Bush. He knows that the Democrats are trying to portray him as an older version of Dubya. He's trying to head it off.

If that's so, he's going to have a helluva time trying to remove all those pics that are on the Intarwebz of him snuggling on Bush and eating cake with him.

Not to mention Dubya's giving him the nod for GOP candidate and treating him to an 'intimate' hot dog lunch at the White House.

/ I can has brain bleach?
// NOW pls?

Mr and Mrs Flyover will forget about those because McCain is a good, decent war crimin...errr hero.

I'm probably voting for him this fall...but he's pandering here, same as everybody else.

Nobody in government has the sac to tell New Orleans that maybe, just maybe, returning so many people to land that's below sea level, land that's supposed to flood, with a massive river on one side and the Gulf of Mexico creeping in the other is colossally stupid, and perhaps they should live on higher ground.

We're laying out the kind of money where we could buy everybody in the Lower Ninth and other below-sea-level areas a perfectly good new house someplace on higher ground. But that cuts a whole long list of politicians out of the gravy train, and we mustn't have that.

See if YOUR response time doesn't lag when YOU'RE 147 years old asshat...

hey Subby, he dealt with it right aftert his nap, get off the old guy.

Remove all Republicans: TheAbstractor: So Republicans should "own up and apologize" for the hurricane? Aside from the failtastic notion of blaming the incumbent party for bad weather

It wasn't the Democrats who rejected Kyoto. Hurricane forces have been on the rise since then. Someone is not happy with you Republicans.

The Senate voted 95 to 0 on July 25 1997 against the Kyoto treaty,which means all Democrats voted against it

syzygy whizz: cltbuilder: He's separating himself from Bush. He knows that the Democrats are trying to portray him as an older version of Dubya. He's trying to head it off.

If that's so, he's going to have a helluva time trying to remove all those pics that are on the Intarwebz of him snuggling on Bush and eating cake with him.

and we respond with pics of Hillary hugging Bush and Hillary and Obama making nice. In politics you always act civil when they are right there....well unless your Cheney then you tell them to go fark themselves. Its good when you know your not going any further and can say WTH you want.

rotay5: The Senate voted 95 to 0 on July 25 1997 against the Kyoto treaty,which means all Democrats voted against it

Technically speaking this vote was the Byrd-Hagel resolution which was non binding and simply said we think this is a bad idea. The Clinton administration faced with this never even sent the treaty to the Seante for ratification. In fact, the treaty has never been sent to the Senate for ratification.

bmasso 2008-04-25 02:22:33 AM

Came here to say the same thing.

As I went through the storm and the aftermath (in Mississippi) and watching the differences between the immediate actions and the subsequent actions by state/local governments in LA and MS, I can personally state I have no issue with FEMA (Federal) response. The got here on schedule with appropriate material and equipment. The state/local government in MS stumbled due to the size of the problem, but reacted as well as could be expected. Louisiana and New Orleans government is STILL attempting to pull their heads out of their asses!

I just wish somebody running for office would call it like it really is.

A bit too late to play that card, McSame.

/loser

syzygy whizz: cltbuilder: He's separating himself from Bush. He knows that the Democrats are trying to portray him as an older version of Dubya. He's trying to head it off.

If that's so, he's going to have a helluva time trying to remove all those pics that are on the Intarwebz of him snuggling on Bush and eating cake with him.

You think huggy, kissy pictures are going to be a problem for one of the candidates?

Seems to me the state of Louisiana should be better equipped to deal with an emergency in the state of Louisiana.

/guess that makes me a racist Bush apologizer, too.

barjockey: See if YOUR response time doesn't lag when YOU'RE 147 years old asshat...

In other news, McCain said it's time to pull out of Vietnam.

Farkin'A: bmasso 2008-04-25 02:22:33 AM

Came here to say the same thing.

As I went through the storm and the aftermath (in Mississippi) and watching the differences between the immediate actions and the subsequent actions by state/local governments in LA and MS, I can personally state I have no issue with FEMA (Federal) response. The got here on schedule with appropriate material and equipment. The state/local government in MS stumbled due to the size of the problem, but reacted as well as could be expected. Louisiana and New Orleans government is STILL attempting to pull their heads out of their asses!

I just wish somebody running for office would call it like it really is.

I just came back from a week of voulenteer work in NOLA and you are right. More then that the rebuilding that is actully getting done in the city is getting done despite the city and state government. It is people like you and me that give our time and money to groups like the United Way, Habitat for Humanity, and Phoenix of New Orleans that are rebuilding peoples homes. The city and state government of NOLA are getting in the way more then they are helping.

More then that the people of the affected wards are greateful for the aid, they are happy to see voulenteers, and want more people to see what the hell is actully going on.

I would urge all of you to give what you can, and if you can give your time to rebuilding for willing and cheap labour is what they need most of all.

Billygoat Gruff ...Ray Nagin is at fault for not evacuating the "chocolate city", he let all those buses rot on the vine....

True that Nagin did everything wrong, but the real screw-up was Gov. Blankout. She stopped FEMA from using the LA National Guard until long after they could've done anything in New Orleans.

As a Katrina survivor I am always amused when people with no knowledge of the events (other than the lies on CNN,FOX, etc) having expert options. The fact is that the federal government DID offer help prior to the storm and urged that all of Southeast LA should be evacuated, but was told to stay away by Blanco and that we were fine. It wasn't until 2 days after the storm hit that Blanco finally agreed to accept government help, which then it took another 2 days for the feds to mobilize. Blanco and Nagin where the real natural disaster, not Katrina or Bush.

Now, the state cannot even get the handling of the government grants right. After almost 3 years, people still have not received help even thought the feds gave the money to the state 2 years ago.

/not a fan of Bush

the old crow: Seems to me the state of Louisiana should be better equipped to deal with an emergency in the state of Louisiana.

/guess that makes me a racist Bush apologizer, too.

San Diego received a swift and full FEMA response to the wildfires last year that registered 19,000 people in need of aid Link (new window)

Louisiana AND THE WHOLE GULF COAST got a late and shoddy response for a catastrophe that registered 1.4 million in need of aid Link (new window)

San Diego GDP: $1.5 billion in 2005 (new window)
Louisiana GDP: $1.6 billion in 2005 (new window)

Result: yeah, you're a racist Bush apologizer. DIAF.

tomhath: Billygoat Gruff ...Ray Nagin is at fault for not evacuating the "chocolate city", he let all those buses rot on the vine....

True that Nagin did everything wrong, but the real screw-up was Gov. Blankout. She stopped FEMA from using the LA National Guard until long after they could've done anything in New Orleans.


THIS...and

As long as LA was not taken over by the feds, only 1 person could have called in the LA National Guard and that was Blank-stare. It would have been illegal for the feds to come in without an invitation by the gov which she did not give until 2 days after the storm passed.