So Barack Obama's Nixon, Bush 43...AND George McGovern, AND Adlai Stevenson.

I seem to recall that we did get out of Viet Nam will Dickey was prez.

So Barack Obama's Nixon, Bush 43...AND George McGovern, AND Adlai Stevenson.

and Louis Farrakhan and Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden



//gawd that was a stupid article

robsul82: So Barack Obama's Nixon, Bush 43...AND George McGovern, AND Adlai Stevenson.

and osama bin laden and saddam hussein

stevecody: So Barack Obama's Nixon, Bush 43...AND George McGovern, AND Adlai Stevenson.

and Louis Farrakhan and Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden

I think you discovered Kevin Bacon, or sank my battleship, or something.

some Washington foreign policy mandarins insist this isn't possible

Looks like the Chinese have more influence in our gubmint than I thought.

heh, heh simulpost. You owe me a beer.

DoctorOfLove: I seem to recall that we did get out of Viet Nam will Dickey was prez.

Not during his first term. And the strategy near the end was to ramp up the fighting to grab as much territory as possible to get a more favorable bargaining position with the North.

DoctorOfLove

I seem to recall that we did get out of Viet Nam will Dickey was prez.

I don't really think his "secret strategy" was to blunder around and eventually let the North Vietnamese roll into Saigon like so many oranges.

DoctorOfLove: I seem to recall that we did get out of Viet Nam will Dickey was prez.

To be fair, it was under President Gerald Ford's watch...

He's not a crook.

You know what? I honestly don't think Obama will get us out of Iraq all that quickly. In fact- my bet is he will do a lot of similar things that McCain would do. But since Obama truly doesn't want us there (and he never wanted us there to begin with), I will actually BELIEVE him if he comes on t.v. and says to the American public- "we can't leave Iraq just yet."

When McCain and Bush say it- I just hear "blah blah blah...same old bs... words"

FTFA

The truth is Obama has no secret plan for Iraq.

I wasn't aware Obama had a secret plan 'a la Nixon, so yeah that's the truth. Michael Crowley really knows stuff!!

FTFA

The truth is Obama has no secret plan for Iraq.

It wouldn't be a secret plan if you knew about it, would it?

homerdrew415: DoctorOfLove: I seem to recall that we did get out of Viet Nam will Dickey was prez.

To be fair, it was under President Gerald Ford's watch...

No, on January 27, 1973 US forces stood down. Ford took over August 9,1974.

I dont think there is an easy exit from Iraq. We farked the nation up, we bumbled the rebuilding process and now we get to watch as America bankrupts itself to bring democracy to ONE COUNTRY. And it hasn't even given us a stable source of oil.

I would like to see a comprehensive list of what would happen if we up and left tomorrow. The country would disintegrate but is that a bad thing? If Iraq split up into 3 nations is that so bad? They produce a minuscule amount of oil so I doubt the price of oil would skyrocket anymore than it is now. The only negative I see is that Iraq could destabilize the region, but Iraq is farked up right now and the rest of the nations are fine. Plus the massive insurgency is directed largely at Americans so if we weren't there I think the region would cooperate to keep some semblance of stability.

Why anyone still believes a word any presidential candidate says, let alone believes they'll do what they say they will just because they said so, is an eternal mystery to me.

I heard that Nixon's secret plan was to make friends with the Chinese and have them do something. He did make friends with the Chinese and did not get them to do anything useful.

robsul82: So Barack Obama's Nixon, Bush 43...AND George McGovern, AND Adlai Stevenson

So you're telling me he has multiple personality disorder? I'm not voting for no crazy person in November.

The first rule of secret meetings: DO NOT DISCUSS SECRET MEETINGS.

Uh, thank yew, thank yew very much.

Well, he's said he wants to withdraw all combat brigades over 16 months, though it'll probably take a bit more than that.

That's not nearly as far-fetched as many on the right want you to believe. There are a LOT of career military men supporting this plan, and not all of them are doing so purely for political reasons.

The most important part, to me, is a promise he made that none of the other candidates EVER would: to make it clear that we won't be keeping permanent bases in their country. That is absolutely key in beginning to reverse the bungling and, more importantly, the overbearing arrogance of Bush's policies in Iraq.

mordantkitten: Why anyone still believes a word any presidential candidate says, let alone believes they'll do what they say they will just because they said so, is an eternal mystery to me.

Well, here's the problem: they all make campaign promises, but they always keep at least some of them, and I think Barack would at least keep more than the average candidate would.

Certainly more than Hillary and McCain. I couldn't think of two people less likely to fulfill their campaign rhetoric if I tried; they're the biggest panderers on the planet at the moment.

So basically what he is saying is that Clinton's secret plan won't work either. He just chose to discuss Obama's. Got it.

Um, subby, Nixon's secret plan to get us out of Vietnam really DID get us out of Vietnam.

Honestly I don't expect Obama to fix all the country's problems, especially Iraq and the economy in his first month or even first year in the White House. Bush screwed the country hard and its going to take some time to make real change happen.

Everyone agrees that just ordering all the troops out of Iraq on January 21, 2009 would be a disaster. However the difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama would start doing something. McCain would just keep doing what Bush has been doing. Hillary would likely just do nothing and then blame it on someone else.

Nabb1: And the strategy near the end was to ramp up the fighting to grab as much territory as possible to get a more favorable bargaining position with the North.

If by "gaining as much territory as possible" you mean to defend the existing borders of South Vietnam from incursions by troops from North Vietnam and if by "get a more favorable bargaining position with the North" you mean to have the North Vietnamese representatives actually show up at the peace talks which they were boycotting, then yeah. Otherwise you are a clueless ignoramous.

Alien Robot: Um, subby, Nixon's secret plan to get us out of Vietnam really DID get us out of Vietnam.

Ah, so Nixon's the one we should blame for the manner of our exit from Vietnam? Good to know.

No wonder he kept it secret...

When Bill Clinton sent troops into Bosnia he said that the troops would be home by Christmas. 13 years later and they are still there. Obama is NOT going to bring the troops home from Iraq. If you actually believe that you are seriously deluded.

A candidate making campaign promises that cannot be met? Imagine that. He's either telling a lie or he's clueless. Pick one.

Saiga410: homer

Ummm Saigon falls 4/30/75...at least wikipedia says so (new window)..and that falls into Gerry's term...

I don't think Americans care how we get out so long as we do get out. Many people have already accepted Iraq as a huge military blunder and refer to it as "Vietnam 2: Desert Boogaloo"

I predict we will have 2 or 3 lame presidents over the next 12 years.

get the U.S. out of Iraq

Wait. Didn't the Dem led Congress do that already?

They promised they would, and they promised to go after Bush and Cheney, too.

Oh, well.

that1guy77: ... and guess where else we'll be going if Hussein is elected?

A weekend trip to Disney World?

that1guy77

AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA Alan Keyes' site!

Gee, I wonder why he would be trying to trash Obama any way he can, even if that includes intentional deception.

Oh man, that's some funny shiat. Keyes has been reduced to little better than a nutjob on the corner yelling obscenity-laced prognostications that he thinks sound prophetic, but just cement in the minds of everyone around him what a nutjob he is.

I think all three candidates would be out of Iraq within three years of assuming office -- with Obama being quicker about it than McCain and Hillary somewhere between the two.

Our economy is slowly disintigrating and I don't expect any of these three will have enough support to keep flushing brazillions of dollars and thousands of men down the toilet in order to install democracy in a group of people who simply don't want to have anything to do with a democracy unless it means the abject humiliation or utter destruction of some neighboring sect/clan/tribe.

homerdrew415: Ummm Saigon falls 4/30/75...at least wikipedia says so (new window)..and that falls into Gerry's term...

Which is well after US combat forces were withdrawn. That picture is not of a military base being evacuated which would imply combat forces were still there, but the US embassy which is in most any country -- even those we don't have military forces in. The US withdrew its military, and a year and a half later the country fell to foreign invaders. Extrapolate this to the Iraqi situation.

There is no good plan. The really good plans require some sacrifice. So we won't get one.

homerdrew415: Saiga410: homer

Ummm Saigon falls 4/30/75...at least wikipedia says so (new window)..and that falls into Gerry's term...

Ahhh so you were talking about Saigon falling and the evacuation of the embassy and not US involvement in the war. Lets agree to disagree, we are both right.

Prospero424: that1guy77

AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA Alan Keyes' site!

Gee, I wonder why he would be trying to trash Obama any way he can, even if that includes intentional deception.

Oh man, that's some funny shiat. Keyes has been reduced to little better than a nutjob on the corner yelling obscenity-laced prognostications that he thinks sound prophetic, but just cement in the minds of everyone around him what a nutjob he is.

Who cares what site the video's on? It originally came from CSPAN if that really even matters. It's unedited and came straight out of Osama's mouth.

/Didn't watch the video, did you?

Prospero424: Ah, so Nixon's the one we should blame for the manner of our exit from Vietnam? Good to know.

The military under Nixon had an orderly withdrawal. The civilians left behind, such as in the embassy and other civilian organizations, had the goat-rope withdrawal under Ford.

tomhath: A candidate making campaign promises that cannot be met? Imagine that. He's either telling a lie or he's clueless. Pick one.

Kind of like Pelosi & Reid's "secret plan" to lower gas prices (new window) if the Dems got a majority. That's REALLY working out.

"He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda."

that1guy77: Who cares what site the video's on? It originally came from CSPAN if that really even matters. It's unedited and came straight out of Osama's mouth.

Osama, huh? Well, at least you've made it clear what an idiot you are. You better make your response good, because I have little interest in talking further with someone so partisan and petty that they resort to the "Obama = Osama" thing after six months of it being the butt of jokes I guess you just weren't in on.

/Didn't watch the video, did you?

No, I didn't watch your farking link to an hour-long video on Alan Keyes' site. Ya got me there; how embarrassing.

/rolls eyes

I know what he's said, you know what he's said, but you're going to pretend any tiny little piece of inconsistency from 2004 means he's just been lying all of the other times because actually arguing the Iraq issue isn't exactly the strong suit of propagandized ideologues like yourself. You prefer to dissemble and muddy the waters. I ain't gonna help you do it.

Told you so?

/Obama's the best of the rest, but if you thought he was going to end the war, you're a dumbass.

I'll second bheilig here, if you really want to get out of Iraq, vote in the Doc.

Alien Robot: The military under Nixon had an orderly withdrawal. The civilians left behind, such as in the embassy and other civilian organizations, had the goat-rope withdrawal under Ford.

Oh, I know. That's mostly true, at least.

It's also true that Nixon most likely intentionally drew the war out in '68 by convincing the South Vietnamese to walk away from the negotiating table simply so he could deny the Democrat in office (Johnson) a breakthrough in the peace negotiations and attain political victory for himself. He later screwed the South Vietnamese over on the promises he made to get them to walk away.

What a lovely man...

The point is that there's plenty of blame to go around as far as the Vietnam war. It was Kennedy's fault, Johnson's, Nixon's, AND Ford's responsibility, and they ALL failed.

It's the people arguing that we just didn't kill enough North Vietnamese and would have won if we had just kept carpet-bombing population centers that really bother me.

But damn, this isn't an argument I wanted to get in to here, anyway.

Hey! At least you can admit that an orderly military withdrawal from a combat zone like that in a short period of time (what was it, 60 days!?) is possible. Maybe we can move forward in Iraq with admissions like that ;)

Prospero424:

Osama, huh? Well, at least you've made it clear what an idiot you are. You better make your response good, because I have little interest in talking further with someone so partisan and petty that they resort to the "Obama = Osama" thing after six months of it being the butt of jokes I guess you just weren't in on.


No, I didn't watch your farking link to an hour-long video on Alan Keyes' site. Ya got me there; how embarrassing.


I know what he's said, you know what he's said, but you're going to pretend any tiny little piece of inconsistency from 2004 means he's just been lying all of the other times because actually arguing the Iraq issue isn't exactly the strong suit of propagandized ideologues like yourself. You prefer to dissemble and muddy the waters. I ain't gonna help you do it.

I better make the response good? How about you not initially respond so childishly and bring an avalanche down upon you in first place? You turn a blind eye to the facts, ridicule something you never watched, spew nonsense, then turn around and say 'don't talk to me'? I hope you resolve your ignorant God complex, nihilist bigot.

that1guy77: I better make the response good? How about you not initially respond so childishly and bring an avalanche down upon you in first place?

So you, a person who refers to Barack Obama as "Osama" is calling someone else "childish"? Look in the mirror sometime, little man.

You turn a blind eye to the facts

You presented not a single fact, only bullshiat propaganda from a serial loser who holds such a petty, irrational grudge against Obama that he compared him to Hitler. That's what made the post so ridiculous, an it's the same sort of thing that makes you ridiculous with the "Osama" crap.

It's juvenile ankle biting born of partisan jealousy.

...ridicule something you never watched...

Maybe you should have, you know, paraphrased a video that was a farking HOUR LONG, moron! Now you're trying to blame me for your own failure to be specific. How about some personal responsibility? Oh yeah, that's only for people you disagree with.

nihilist bigot.

Well:




'Night. I'm done with you, now.