they were volunteers who chickened out when they got their orders. send them back so they can make small rocks out of big rocks

Ours not to question why, Ours but to do and die.

Unless, of course, we're not really into it.

albo: they were volunteers who chickened out when they got their orders. send them back so they can make small rocks out of big rocks

Exactly. I do have respect for Vietnam-era citizens who, faced with being drafted for a war they could not support in any way, chose to dodge what they saw as an unethical draft and, through their actions, helped turn the tide of public opinion against a ridiculous war.

These individuals chose to enlist, knowing what enlistment meant. You don't get to choose what orders you obey once you do that.

That said, the war in Iraq is a travesty, Bush is a criminal, and I like pie.

I'm an American desserter, and I was only in Canada for the syrup, doughnuts, and ice wine.

But what do you do if your enemy is domestic in the Bush regime?" Hart asked.


You stand up in front of the nation and refuse to follow the orders given to you by an illegal authority. Then you face whatever consequences come your way.

THAT is what a brave man would do. A coward runs and hides. A man stands his ground.

Pocket Ninja: and I like pie.
This.

All Volunteer Service, Candada should ship 'em back like the INS in El Paso.

Time to build a wall, eh?

"I understand that I volunteered for this and part of my oath was to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But what do you do if your enemy is domestic in the Bush regime?" Hart asked.


This guy is a disgrace and a coward.

bmr68: "I understand that I volunteered for this and part of my oath was to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But what do you do if your enemy is domestic in the Bush regime?" Hart asked.


This guy is a disgrace and a coward.

He'd have to man up just to be a coward. Cowards spit on this guy. I'd go so far as to call him a pantie waste liberal.

F-bear: Time to build a wall, eh?

Yes, it worked so well for China.

I don't support the war, but I think these people are assmites. It'd be one thing if they were drafted, but they signed up knowing full well what they were getting into. Shut up and fulfill your duty, you chickenshiats.

/maternal grandpa fought in WWI
//paternal grandpa fought in WWII
///uncle fought in 'Nam

I thought it was already established that we were going to deport them? I seem to remember a Fark thread about that a few months back.

Hope we do, that's the last type of people I want immigrating. Well, other than the Jews.

/Yes, kidding about the Jews

fark those deserter cowards.

I agree with Pocket Ninja. Running away from a draft is one thing, signing up and running away is something entirely different.

Ship 'em back and put them in a PMITA prison for being deserters like the UCMJ dictates.

I'd respect him if it were a draft. I'd respect him if he refused to go to Iraq and went to prison for an act of civil disobedience. I won't respect him for running away from his voluntary commitment.

so...what happens if they come back? beheadings?

/i'm in

bmr68: "I understand that I volunteered for this and part of my oath was to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But what do you do if your enemy is domestic in the Bush regime?" Hart asked.


This guy is a disgrace and a coward.

Yeah definitely, anyone who doesn't kiss the king's ring follow 'lawful' orders from the president is the scum of the earth.

Don't worry Canadians and American deserters, we're going to invade your country really soon. You'll become Americans once again and impose the imperial system of measurements.

All your leaves are belong to us.

$10 says he enlisted for the college money.

I hate the war in Iraq and still feel no sympathy for these people. There is no draft, I would feel different if it were people running to avoid being enslaved into service by their government.

But these people volunteered to serve the military. When you join up you serve in good or bad. If they want to refuse orders fine and dandy but then they need to face the consequences.

They should be sent back and imprisioned.

What many of you forget is that volunteering to defend America isn't equal to volunteering to defend Iraqi Citizens.

This is like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then being told you're being sent the Amazonian rainforest to gather data to help protect endangered insect species.

pvd021: This is like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then being told you're being sent the Amazonian rainforest to gather data to help protect endangered insect species.

I would make sure to sneeze on every native that I met.

albo: they were volunteers who chickened out when they got their orders. send them back so they can make small rocks out of big rocks

Let them in by the dozens! Other countries and their economies are built on unjust wars. Ours is built on conscience and peace.

Canada gains citizens from every war (world wars, local skirmishes, whatever). Sometimes the only recourse is not to fight, but to go live peacefully elsewhere. That is, if they can't stay home and make a stand for peace there.

Can't his dad fix it?

BobtheFascist: $10 says he enlisted for the college money.

I won't take that bet

pvd021: What many of you forget is that volunteering to defend America isn't equal to volunteering to defend Iraqi Citizens.

This is like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then being told you're being sent the Amazonian rainforest to gather data to help protect endangered insect species.

No, it'd be more like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then getting sent to fight a wildfire in another state. Many do just that every year.

Oooh great! Another highly original Bush-bashing thread!! Grow up, kids.

bmr68: "I understand that I volunteered for this and part of my oath was to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But what do you do if your enemy is domestic in the Bush regime?" Hart asked.


This guy is a disgrace and a coward.

Or is he just telling the truth?
Seems to me that this administration falls under the "domestic" enemies. He's sworn to uphold the Constitution, not the Bush junta.

These guys should turn their tanks on DC.

CraicBaby [TotalFark] 2008-04-20 07:58:22 PM

/maternal grandpa fought in WWI
//paternal grandpa fought in WWII
///uncle fought in 'Nam

And where are you fighting? Iraq? Afganistan? Or The Peoples Republic of Talktomuchistan?

Your country sucks! Everyone hates the US for obvious reasons. Have fun with that

They joined up for the benefits, when they have to fight, they chicken out.
War is what the military does for a living, duh. If you don't want to go to war, don't join up. Maybe less chance of combat in the Navy or Air Force, but still it is there. These guys don't deserve sympathy, unlike those who were DRAFTED during the Vietnam war.

Triaxis: He'd have to man up just to be a coward. Cowards spit on this guy. I'd go so far as to call him a pantie waste liberal.

OOOH BURN. I'd sass back, but how can I when I'm sure you're posting this from some FOB in Anbar province... right? Semper fib?

/the panties are, as we discussed, strictly a comfort thing

pvd021: What many of you forget is that volunteering to defend America isn't equal to volunteering to defend Iraqi Citizens.

This is like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then being told you're being sent the Amazonian rainforest to gather data to help protect endangered insect species.

You swear an oath to follow the orders of your superiors - that farking means when they say "GO" you go.

I will listen to any arguement regarding the validity of the reasons for going to war and who is and isnt a farking moron - but having a chain of command insures that you can PLAN a military operation instead of having to debate the merits of your mission with every swinging dick who's carrying a rifle ON that mission.

If you really have a change of heart - the go objector status, but be prepared to face the music.

Fizpez:You swear an oath to follow the orders of your superiors - that farking means when they say "GO" you go.

I will listen to any arguement regarding the validity of the reasons for going to war and who is and isnt a farking moron - but having a chain of command insures that you can PLAN a military operation instead of having to debate the merits of your mission with every swinging dick who's carrying a rifle ON that mission.

If you really have a change of heart - the go objector status, but be prepared to face the music.

This.

I think they made the right choice. If you enlist, and you find your government is the one doing wrong, I see no problems with just walking away from it.

Zomg coward bbq? LOL. Easy to judge when you don't have to make that choice. These men chose to follow their hearts and turn their backs on a madman and tyrant, it's a shame more of the military didn't have the balls to follows theirs. Nuremburg showed us that following bad orders, including those to invade, is no less a crime then making the orders in the first place.

better a desertor with a clear mind then a potential war criminal.

Opposing and resisting compulsory military service is one thing; it is another to sign papers knowing damn well what your job description is. Give me. A. Break.

I don't think the US government should even waste resources trying to extradite or repatriate these pieces of crap. We're better off without them.

Fizpez: If you really have a change of heart - the go objector status, but be prepared to face the music.

Agreed.

Pocket Ninja: That said, the war in Iraq is a travesty, Bush is a criminal, and I like pie.

This. And I like beer and pie.

Of course Canada will accept them. Canada accepts every reject in the world. And it doesn't make them a stronger nation. The Canadian identity has pretty much disappeared. It's now just a country of hyphenated citizens who have more loyalty to the first part of their heritage than their new home.

And a cowardly American? Media gold in Canada.

AlexanderKeith: And where are you fighting? Iraq? Afganistan? Or The Peoples Republic of Talktomuchistan?

Your country sucks! Everyone hates the US for obvious reasons. Have fun with that

Sound off that you love the United States, or the CHECKS STOP COMING

AlexanderKeith: And where are you fighting? Iraq? Afganistan? Or The Peoples Republic of Talktomuchistan?

Your country sucks! Everyone hates the US for obvious reasons. Have fun with that

I LOL'd. I'm American (married to a Canadian), so by saying (your country sucks" you just said the US sucks.

/military would never take me because of vision issues

MonkeyBoy666: F-bear: Time to build a wall, eh?

Yes, it worked so well for China.



First thing I thought of

Welcome to the land of the free!

Lupin_IV: No, it'd be more like signing up to be a volunteer firefighter and then getting sent to fight a wildfire in another state.

No, it's more like joining a volunteer Fire Department and having a Chief that keeps starting fires.

Still, though, there are dozens of ways to get released from military service - or at least get out of combat duties - short of desertion.

MagnumP1: First thing I thought of

GAWDAMN MONGORIANS!

Farkin_wolfpack: Opposing and resisting compulsory military service is one thing; it is another to sign papers knowing damn well what your job description is. Give me. A. Break.

I don't think the US government should even waste resources trying to extradite or repatriate these pieces of crap. We're better off without them.

They signed expected to defend america and uphold the constitution. Why should they fight a war that serves neither purpose? The the government and it's leaders willfully break their oaths, then why blame a solder for walking off the job?

Antimatter: I think they made the right choice. If you enlist, and you find your government is the one doing wrong, I see no problems with just walking away from it.

Zomg coward bbq? LOL. Easy to judge when you don't have to make that choice. These men chose to follow their hearts and turn their backs on a madman and tyrant, it's a shame more of the military didn't have the balls to follows theirs. Nuremburg showed us that following bad orders, including those to invade, is no less a crime then making the orders in the first place.

better a desertor with a clear mind then a potential war criminal.

Because killing babies and running to Canada are the only two possible outcomes. False dichotomy FTL.

DanUFfan: Oooh great! Another highly original Bush-bashing thread!! Grow up, kids.

Did you actually read the comments before posting? Almost all of them were along the "I can respect draft dodging but these volunteers are inexcusable" lines. Very little Bush bashing, and it should stay that way. The article is about volunteers refusing to uphold their end of a contract. The legitimacy of the conflict is irrelevent; they volunteered to serve in the armed forces and follow orders. Nobody forced them.

Interesting that Fark's word filter would put the objectionable phrase in lower-case text.

Fizpez: If you really have a change of heart - the go objector status, but be prepared to face the music.

Do you want an objector in a foxhole with you? If the guy watching your back doesn't think the enemy deserves to be shot, you're both weaker for it.

And every recruit learns very quickly what the chain of command is. Your points are all drilled in so they are not so much reason as reflex. If there are lots of deserters (I am thinking Viet Nam here) some wars, it is because that chain of command has failed. The current Iraq war might not fit this stage of failure, but it seems to come close at times. That's why you don't lie your country into a war. *shrug*

And yeah, I agree that justice means facing the music. Send them to go dig some holes with ex-Pfc Wintergreen, by all means.

Robo Beat: Antimatter: I think they made the right choice. If you enlist, and you find your government is the one doing wrong, I see no problems with just walking away from it.

Zomg coward bbq? LOL. Easy to judge when you don't have to make that choice. These men chose to follow their hearts and turn their backs on a madman and tyrant, it's a shame more of the military didn't have the balls to follows theirs. Nuremburg showed us that following bad orders, including those to invade, is no less a crime then making the orders in the first place.

better a desertor with a clear mind then a potential war criminal.

Because killing babies and running to Canada are the only two possible outcomes. False dichotomy FTL.

Didn't some 60,000+ people die in iraq, plus like a million and a half displaced?

I never called the troops 'baby killers' ether, so stop putting words in my mouth. But this war has been costly, wasn't necessary, and heads should have rolled for starting it.