Note my lack of surprise.

I hope, one day, that the full extent of corruption of this administration will be revealed. Unfortunately, presidents love to keep the corruption of previous administration private...it maintains their ability to continue said corruption...


/it really doesn't matter the party or person in the office
//pardon me, i'm blathering

They are not propoganda shills, subby. They are Patriots On Demand.

Wow... that's a bit scary...

Impressive the way they managed to COMBINE contracts corruption with lying to the public... really two birds, one stone there!

Approves

KyngNothing: Impressive the way they managed to COMBINE contracts corruption with lying to the public... really two birds, one stone there!

Business and pleasure, patriotism and personal gain, cats and dogs...

Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

Wow, an obviously-biased newspaper has a problem with analysts being briefed with the information that the military possesses instead of just fabricating their stories the way the NYTimes does?

Shocking.

I liked this article that was linked in the main article.

Never trust what anyone on the internet says about themselves.

Judge only the validity of their arguments.

Roman Fyseek: analysts being briefed with the information that the military possesses

Read the article and the excerpts from the documents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html

That isn't what happened.

You hear that?

That's the sound of my massive lack of surprise.

It's not been exactly a well kept secret that the "independent military analysts" have been paid shills--and it is a pattern of manufacturing news and commentary that has gone on before, but this Administration has taken to entirely new levels.

Not exactly a secret with that though.

Roman Fyseek: Wow, an obviously-biased newspaper has a problem with analysts being briefed with the information that the military possesses instead of just fabricating their stories the way the NYTimes does?

Shocking.

Actually, not so much. Analysts examine what has been put on the table--these folks were given their marching orders. Sort of like taking your talking points from a cable "news" show, only from official channels and trying to pass it off as independent thought...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Really?

Next thing you know we'll find out that executives from Lockhead were a part of the decision to go to war.

Post, come on no will find the times credible...

Roman Fyseek:

just fabricating their stories the way the NYTimes does?



Medal of Freedom, baby. For service above and beyond in Prague.



I want one too!

Skleenar: Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

You'd be right if the majority would actually be interested in important information and not solely using it to look up pictures Paris Hilton.

Almost as thought this (new window) never happened.

s/thought/though/

Roman Fyseek:

Almost as thought .... this never happened.

.......

s/thought/though/

I kind of liked it. Has a bit of Jedi Gesserit to it.



.... this post never happened...

my lack of surprise is even louder than hubiestubert'

Roman Fyseek

For one I'm damn proud that you're following in the generals footsteps. Damn proud.

Crakerasscracker: Note my lack of surprise.

QFT

Skleenar: Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

Enjoy it while it lasts. Bush hasn't exactly enjoyed the 'net and Hillary is currently getting her ass kicked by the tubes. Believe me, the beltway insiders are looking for a way to scramble the flow of information across the datapaths.

If I had to guess, the fed will make a Faustian deal with the major telco corporations. Probably let them change the pay structure for bandwidth in return for increased ability to control what gets said on the 'net. They'll cover it up by saying it's to stop 'teh terrorists' or 'teh pedophiles' and the public will fall for it.

Weaver95: If I had to guess, the fed will make a Faustian deal with the major telco corporations. Probably let them change the pay structure for bandwidth in return for increased ability to control what gets said on the 'net. They'll cover it up by saying it's to stop 'teh terrorists' or 'teh pedophiles' and the public will fall for it.

I am surprised it has lasted this long.

I wonder if we are going to look back at this time as a lost 'golden information era'.

Yeah, it has its faults (boy does it ever). But the ease with which you fan find competing information and the enthusiasm with which people join the debate is really rather thrilling.

Skleenar: Yeah, it has its faults (boy does it ever). But the ease with which you fan find competing information and the enthusiasm with which people join the debate is really rather thrilling.

Between corporate efforts to throttle information exchange (see RIAA/MPAA lawsuits), the debate on Net Neutrality (which shouldn't even BE a 'debate') and our government's increasing paranoia (war on drugs, war on terror, ect ect) I'm not certain we'll be permitted to have conversations like this within the next 10 years or so. There's just too many power groups with too much of a vested interest in controlling the flow of data to allow a free range internet to continue to exist.

Weaver95: Enjoy it while it lasts. Bush hasn't exactly enjoyed the 'net and Hillary is currently getting her ass kicked by the tubes. Believe me, the beltway insiders are looking for a way to scramble the flow of information across the datapaths.

This is a meaningless sentence.

There's just too many power groups with too much of a vested interest in controlling the flow of data to allow a free range internet to continue to exist.

The opposite is true. Too many power groups, too much conflicting vested interest. One form of control is not another.

Is there anything, anything at all, that has happened under this administration that hasn't been a lie a cluster-fark, or both? Anything? ANYTHING??

Obdicut: The opposite is true. Too many power groups, too much conflicting vested interest. One form of control is not another.

Oh sooner or later those folks will agree on an 'industry standard' (for lack of a better term). Then they'll start regulating things into banality. Look what happened with ham radio - corporations ended up controling everything and the little guys got regulated into forgotten corners of the spectrum.

I've heard some whacky ideas floated by industry lobbyists. Everything from requiring web site designers to get a federal license to mandating ISP's log every webpage every user visits. And if you think i'm paranoid or being overly alarmist - go look up what Comcast has been up to lately.

Sooner or later the government and/or a couple of corporations *will* try to control the internet. It's inevitable.

Skleenar: Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

I expect a future where the US government to make it illegal to visit websites with viewpoints opposite those of the Pentagon and its sponsors.

That's why I think it's important we all understand the mechanics of faxnet, which Chinese dissidents used inside China to circulate news illegally.

Control_this: Skleenar: Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

I expect a future where the US government to make it illegal to visit websites with viewpoints opposite those of the Pentagon and its sponsors.

Luckily for us, the government is incompetent when it comes to IT resources.

ADDDAddy

Is there anything, anything at all, that has happened under this administration that hasn't been a lie a cluster-fark, or both? Anything? ANYTHING??

Nothing springs to mind. But there must be SOMETHING. The man's had 8 years in office, he has to have at least ONE positive accomplishment.

But I can't think of one.

I am just SHOCKED by this development. SHOCKED I tell you. I never expected this.

They were propagandin' fer our freedoms.

Control_this: They were propagandin' fer our freedoms.

I really don't want any more propaganda. Not from Bush, not from the Pentagon, and not from anyone currently running for office. We have a couple of hard choices to make in the next couple of years and it's going to be difficult enough to do without the added burden of sorting out the truth from the self serving lies.

Weaver95: Luckily for us, the government is incompetent when it comes to IT resources.

No, just the Bush administration.

And only when convenient.

Marcus Aurelius: Nothing springs to mind. But there must be SOMETHING. The man's had 8 years in office, he has to have at least ONE positive accomplishment.

He turned Americans against the GOP?

Skleenar: Marcus Aurelius: Nothing springs to mind. But there must be SOMETHING. The man's had 8 years in office, he has to have at least ONE positive accomplishment.

He turned Americans against the GOP?

He cleared a bunch of brush. That was pretty productive.

Marcus Aurelius: Nothing springs to mind. But there must be SOMETHING. The man's had 8 years in office, he has to have at least ONE positive

He made Democrats rediscover their vestigial testicles?

Marcus Aurelius: Nothing springs to mind. But there must be SOMETHING. The man's had 8 years in office, he has to have at least ONE positive accomplishment.

But I can't think of one.

He's united the country (against him and his adminstration, but still...). He's gotten people interested and participating in government (mostly to shoot down his proposals). And he has people thinking about the direction the country is taking with our foreign policy decisions (at least we know what doesn't work).

So even while this adminstration has been a negative example, it HAS managed to unite people. Just not in ways Bush expected.

Bloggers were also hired and paid to shape opinions at home.

You mean like Kos?

Maybe there is such a thing as bad publicity... hard to say.

ADDDAddy: Is there anything, anything at all, that has happened under this administration that hasn't been a lie a cluster-fark, or both? Anything? ANYTHING??

Bush managed survived that deadly pretzel.

So here's a challenge for you Farkers:

In a little while, a picture of Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf will be posted in this thread. It's pretty much inevitable.

The challenge is to make it something other than the same three images of MSS we've all seen before (MSS with hands up, Hillary as MSS, and one where he's captioned). Try something creative, this time.

Alien Robot: Bloggers were also hired and paid to shape opinions at home.

You mean like Kos?

Right.

Because if there is any one group kowtowing to the Administration/Pentagon line, it's dKos. Someone must have bought off all 100K+ members of that site.

Yup. You are a special one, Alien Robot.

Not surprising. Also not surprising that a handful of posters in this thread would attempt to defend this with misrepresentation of the facts and "But Kos!"-style deflection.

Ex-Republican: Bush managed survived that deadly pretzel

I think you misunderstood the question.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual - is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the nation.
A stark warning and we didn't listen.
Now we have the exact thing he warned about in power.
And the media is complicit for the most part.
just look at Stephanoplus's explanation for his questions.
Hey Karl Rove was going to do this anyway so it's my duty to do it first. I'm obligated dammit.

Weaver95: Skleenar: Is it just me, or did the internet come around at just the right time?

Enjoy it while it lasts. Bush hasn't exactly enjoyed the 'net and Hillary is currently getting her ass kicked by the tubes. Believe me, the beltway insiders are looking for a way to scramble the flow of information across the datapaths.

If I had to guess, the fed will make a Faustian deal with the major telco corporations. Probably let them change the pay structure for bandwidth in return for increased ability to control what gets said on the 'net. They'll cover it up by saying it's to stop 'teh terrorists' or 'teh pedophiles' and the public will fall for it.

I am willing to bet that there are more computer dudes willing to break that code than the government has at their disposal.

Helen Keller would have seen that train coming.