eqtworld: Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin

What a cockblocker

Oooo, John McCain's in for a tannin'.

Oooo, John McCain's in for a tannin'.

So is every other male member of congress you can think of.

Including some of the women...

Pornography has gone mainstream, as evidenced by the teeth-whitening booths at the Miami convention

In the industry, we call those booths, "Bukkake Boxes."

eqtworld: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

-Jesus

Matthew 5:27

He is saying it would be better to gouge out your eye if that can prevent you from even looking with sexual thoughts. Because it is better to get to heaven with one eye than burn in hell forever..

There is no way to rationalize what this guy is doing if you believe in the bible or jesus. Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin


Actually, the bible has over 2000 references to being a good steward over our finances, and although I agree with what you said, I do think that this topic has more references.
Link (new window)

At Miami's convention, his neighbors included a booth pawning penis-themed pillows....

WTF?

So shines a good deed in a weary world...

/approves

Now let's bring on the farkin' bible thumpers!

there's so many of those pious farkers one here, yet have sooooo little to say...

RIGHT

Hallejah! never thought I'd catch the spirit on fark

Hallelu...

The porno fans were hoping for some hot Mary Magdalene lesbian action.

i wonder if Gross will ever allow a porn-themed booth at any of his church's conventions... out of fairness...?

So would pornographers be equally welcome to promote their world view at a religious convention?

/Doubtful

eqtworld:
He is saying it would be better to gouge out your eye if that can prevent you from even looking with sexual thoughts. Because it is better to get to heaven with one eye than burn in hell forever..

There is no way to rationalize what this guy is doing if you believe in the bible or jesus. Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin

But more generally, he spoke of forgiveness and reaching out to the people that society has rejected, the outcasts, prostitutes and beggars. Only a really mean-spirited biblical literalist (of which there are many, of course) would hold the condemnatory message over the loving one.

There's a type of Christian who believes that to hear about Jesus you'd better wear Sunday clothes and show up at their suburban church and do it their way, which is very much not the way Jesus ran his "ministry". This guy presumably believes that all souls can be saved, even those of people who have sex for a living. And presumably he's willing to "bring the mountain to Mohammed" to try and make it happen (if I may engage in a little metaphorical syncretism here).

/not a Christian

Who Would Jesus Do?

1proudneocon: eqtworld: [snip] Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin...

Actually, the bible has over 2000 references to being a good steward over our finances [snip]

There is a difference between what the bible says and what Jesus says.

//Just sayin'

He needs to read this:

Sex in Christ

NSFW text

/not a porn star
//not a Christian, either

yotta: At Miami's convention, his neighbors included a booth pawning penis-themed pillows....

WTF?

All the better to smack the bishop with?

'It's not, like, a bunch of sick perverts anymore,' he said.

Because of course, perverts aren't people, normal people don't like pornography, or sex, and its sick demeaning and horrible to even think about sex, yes I know porn is different...

In the old testament it says pretty much NOTHING about pre-marital sex, and you can interpret it til your face turns blue, but Jesus was vastly different from the old testament in his teachings, its an entirely different religion, one which hates the natural urge to procreate.

/previously Christian, now happily agnostic

eqtworld: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

-Jesus

Matthew 5:27

That's funny coming from Jeebus. Joseph wasn't Jeebus's real dad.

/virgin birth, my ass

I'm sorry but Christianity just isn't as sexy. Unless you're a pederast.

eqtworld: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

-Jesus

Matthew 5:27

He is saying it would be better to gouge out your eye if that can prevent you from even looking with sexual thoughts. Because it is better to get to heaven with one eye than burn in hell forever..

There is no way to rationalize what this guy is doing if you believe in the bible or jesus. Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin

Then how come Christians don't gouge their eyes out? Oh, right, they get to cherry pick what to take literally....

Two thoughts here as a Christian:

1. I can see why Jesus preached so much against lusting after other people. Your thoughts tend to become your actions; your actions tend to become your habits. I don't think noticing a pretty woman go by is the end of the world...but thinking constantly about boning every woman you see might lead to considering trying it (apologies for the awkward sentence wording-my coffee hasn't kicked in yet). I think unfaithfulness in a spouse is one of the most devastating things that can happen to someone (not THE MOST, but at least one of). It destroys their ability to love and trust the person who they should most be able to love and trust fully. That carries over into other relationships (how is this person out to screw me over?). Jesus had amazing insight into the reality of the human condition-he knew how much pain adultery caused-even if people eventually put it behind them, there would always be the shadow of "will s/he do it again?" and the lack of complete trust that is necessary in a relationship.

/Thought two coming in another post. This one is long enough.

oldsbone: Two thoughts here as a Christian:

1. I can see why Jesus preached so much against lusting after other people. Your thoughts tend to become your actions; your actions tend to become your habits. I don't think noticing a pretty woman go by is the end of the world...but thinking constantly about boning every woman you see might lead to considering trying it (apologies for the awkward sentence wording-my coffee hasn't kicked in yet). I think unfaithfulness in a spouse is one of the most devastating things that can happen to someone (not THE MOST, but at least one of). It destroys their ability to love and trust the person who they should most be able to love and trust fully. That carries over into other relationships (how is this person out to screw me over?). Jesus had amazing insight into the reality of the human condition-he knew how much pain adultery caused-even if people eventually put it behind them, there would always be the shadow of "will s/he do it again?" and the lack of complete trust that is necessary in a relationship.

/Thought two coming in another post. This one is long enough.

Why aren't you at church!!!
/just kidding
//not there either, no excuse for me...

http://www.craiggross.com/

god, christians are FREAKS.

Porn Debate (new window)

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: That's funny coming from Jeebus. Joseph wasn't Jeebus's real dad.

True. That makes Jesus a bastard child and the product of adulterous sin.

/feelin' blasphemous today...

eqtworld: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

-Jesus

Matthew 5:27

He is saying it would be better to gouge out your eye if that can prevent you from even looking with sexual thoughts. Because it is better to get to heaven with one eye than burn in hell forever..

There is no way to rationalize what this guy is doing if you believe in the bible or jesus. Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin


Not really. The dialogue for "Jesus" was mostly invented. The christ myth existed before "Jesus" existed.. the story and the character are borrowed, just like the Eucharist is and the holidays are and just about everything in Christianity from earlier pagan traditions.

It's all a Myth (new window)

superlawyergirl: i wonder if Gross will ever allow a porn-themed booth at any of his church's conventions... out of fairness...?

I don't think fairness is called for. Instead of outwardly attacking those at the convention, declaring them to be sinners...etc; he simply handed out bibles and addressed the problems with addiction to pornography. Like it or not, there are people for whom that is a serious problem. Christianity espouses one of many different ways to overcome it. Others find secular therapy more useful, some just grow out of it. What matters is that the issue is addressed.

Now if he were setting up a booth at the convention and shout fire and brimstone at anyone who passed by, I'd support putting up porn booths at a church convention.

So a guy offers up religion in a non confrontation way - and farkers see fit to ridicule and attack. Nice to see the secular fundamentalists are far more close minded and intolerant then the pastor in the article they are attacking.

He doesn't go there and condemn other peoples actions, he just offers a bible to those who want it. How is that offensive to anyone?

"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."

"Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness."

-- Mother Teresa

aaaaand here come the Christian "I'm being repressed" singers...

All things being equal here - this guy is doing it right.
Polite, non-aggressive speech, working in an area that he sees as being a point of concentrated sin.

I also find it amusing that he recruited a pack of 20 year old girls (the t&a bible squad) to hand out the info at a pron conference.

This is the first time in a while that I've seen a xian following the teachings of christ.

+10 rev.

i_am_invisible: god, christians are FREAKS.

You should see some of the freaks at a BDSM convention. My personal favorites are the ones who merge BDSM with a deep love for Jesus as their personal lord and savior. Crucifixion fetish for the win!

/I wish I was kidding.

I'm a Biblical Scholar, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

Especially our capital idiot, Cerebral Ballsy, with his assertion that it's all a myth. Unfortunately the only really good links i have right now are christian apologetics, and i'm feeling lazy, so i'll just give you, this link right here. (pops).

We critical scholars get around and laugh every once in a while at the idiots who say that christianity was borrowed from pagan religions, and then we all have a very hearty laugh at those who say he never even existed. Yes. He existed. He was a powerful public speaker and was preaching that the world was going to end, and that he was the messiah. There is not a single reputable scholar who ACTUALLY believes the Jesus myth theories. All of that website you put up is pure, laughable scholarship. For example, it's simple historical fact that the guy actually was killed by roman authorities. He didn't rise from the dead, but hey.

And the virgin birth thing? my personal opinion is that Joseph WAS the father, but they made up the story later on to support the idea of God being Jesus' Father.

So stop going around teh internets posting about things you have no real knowledge about.

/not a troll, or a rickroll

Point 2-

(sorry about the delay, I helped my wife get our healthy kid ready for church, I'm staying home with the sick one NeoMatt)

Even though I posted earlier saying that habitual lusting wasn't a good idea, most people don't get that far. Porn is similar to alcohol-a few drinks now and then probably won't be an issue. A few drinks every hour from when you get off work until bed every night of the week would be an issue. Anything that becomes enough of an obsession that it gets in the way of normal life is an problem. However, Americans don't generally make things that most people can do in reasonable amounts illegal because a few people can't handle them (marijuana excepted).

Besides, it's pointless to legislate Christian morality to non-Christians. The next step is state-enforced religion, and we all know how well that turned out ( Islamic Middle East, Catholic Europe during the middle ages, and Atheistic China). The whole point of Christianity is that we should be nice to each other but that we will inevitably fail at some point (in this case, lust leading to adultery or sex that is regretted later). And God will forgive us if we ask. Legislating the specifics doesn't bring about the generalities.

eqtworld: Cerebral Ballsy: Not really. The dialogue for "Jesus" was mostly invented. The christ myth existed before "Jesus" existed.. the story and the character are borrowed, just like the Eucharist is and the holidays are and just about everything in Christianity from earlier pagan traditions.

Well, that is certainly one way of looking at it. But I was really talking about people who believe Jesus was the messiah, that the bible is an account of his life, and that Jesus meant what he said about sin and the afterlife.

What I am saying is Jesus never really said those things. They were purported to be said because the group that pushed those ideals wanted them to be spread and adhered to by the people.

Hell is a construct to scare people into doing what was considered "the correct thing" at the time. The only problem with the bible is that social mores change over time. That is why christians ignore some rules in the bible and pay attention to others. If the bible were written by the "loving god" that most christians currently worship, then there would be no passages advocating stoning children when they disrespect parents. (Stoning is a death sentence). The fact is, it was created to usurp power and used to promote social values that were important at the time.

The real "Hel" was an actual lake of fire that people threw their trash into and it continally burned, like an open incinerator. When the Bible was first written, the idea of "going to Hell" referred to disrespecting peoples' bodies after death by throwing them into the burning pit, which goes against Jewish burial tradition (a sacred rite in Judaism). Only later was the concept of "Hell" expanded to frighten people even more. Those of us who aren't Jewish do not necessarily hold sacred what happens to our bodies after death, so Hell had to be exagerrated.

The concept of marriage to one person forever is slightly ludicrous. It works out fine if the two people are both completely responsible, never get hotheaded or overemotional, and they both change and go through the same life stages together.

Most of the time though, one person has to give up a lot to be with the other.. usually that means one person giving up a career path or a similar big decision which leaves them at a major disadvantage should there be a divorce. As we're seeing, now that women are working and gaining power, marriage as an institution is falling apart.

Perhaps we need to look at it differently. For starters, why get married if you're not yet having kids? I am having trouble seeing the advantage of it. It seems even christians themselves commit much "adultery" before they're married yet they will insist upon the biblical version as the correct model for human sexuality. Even though history has shown it to be impractical over and over and over again.

Slesfo: I'm a Biblical Scholar, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

Especially our capital idiot, Cerebral Ballsy, with his assertion that it's all a myth. Unfortunately the only really good links i have right now are christian apologetics, and i'm feeling lazy, so i'll just give you, this link right here. (pops).

We critical scholars get around and laugh every once in a while at the idiots who say that christianity was borrowed from pagan religions, and then we all have a very hearty laugh at those who say he never even existed. Yes. He existed. He was a powerful public speaker and was preaching that the world was going to end, and that he was the messiah. There is not a single reputable scholar who ACTUALLY believes the Jesus myth theories. All of that website you put up is pure, laughable scholarship. For example, it's simple historical fact that the guy actually was killed by roman authorities. He didn't rise from the dead, but hey.

And the virgin birth thing? my personal opinion is that Joseph WAS the father, but they made up the story later on to support the idea of God being Jesus' Father.

So stop going around teh internets posting about things you have no real knowledge about.

Have you ever studied world religion? Or have you just gone to bible studies taught by christians? Take a step out of your box.

/I used to be christian until I did some research.. outside of what other christians teach. I can assure you, I'm no "idiot".
//By the way that's not very "christian" of you.

lol, who said i was christian??

i thought it was clear in my post that i implied that i wasn't, but i guess you didn't pick it up.

Slesfo: lol, who said i was christian??

i thought it was clear in my post that i implied that i wasn't, but i guess you didn't pick it up.

Well, which is it? Is the story of Jesus all a myth or is he the Son of God? Or are you somewhere in between?

Nevermind, the minute you started calling names, I knew you had nothing of worth to respond with. Good day.

hmmm, apparently you've never heard of modern Bibilcal scholarship, or Biblical criticism.

Your false dichotomy that it's either all a myth or that he's the son of God is really kinda sad. Most secular scholars believe that he was a real person, with a real powerful personality that got him killed because he was an insurrectionist. Hell, even Wikipedia has good info on biblical criticism.

But the fact that people go around saying that it was total myth betrays one of two things: 1, you're not intelligent enough to understand the facts, or 2 (which i think is more likely btw), you're being intentionally deceptive, just to tear down Christians.

By the way, who spends their whole life studying a myth? What do you plan to do with this oh-so-useful information? Teach? As a non-christian?

The waste of time you have invested in this is unbelieveable. You might as well have studied chinese acupuncture healing.

Slesfo:

Not trying to troll or anything, but what is your take on this guy:

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/ (new window)

deeper: "We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."

"Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness."

-- Mother Teresa

I like this one:

"In destroying the power of giving life, through contraception, a husband or wife is doing something to self. This turns the attention to self and so it destroys the gift of love in him or her. In loving, the husband and wife must turn the attention to each other as happens in natural family planning, and not to self, as happens in contraception. Once that living love is destroyed by contraception, abortion follows very easily."

Cerebral Ballsy: Slesfo: I'm a Biblical Scholar, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies...

We critical scholars get around and laugh every once in a while at the idiots who say that christianity was borrowed from pagan religions......For example, it's simple historical fact that the guy actually was killed by roman authorities. He didn't rise from the dead, but hey.

And the virgin birth thing? my personal opinion is that Joseph WAS the father, but they made up the story later on to support the idea of God being Jesus' Father.

So stop going around teh internets posting about things you have no real knowledge about.

Have you ever studied world religion? Or have you just gone to bible studies taught by christians? Take a step out of your box.

/I used to be christian until I did some research.. outside of what other christians teach. I can assure you, I'm no "idiot".
//By the way that's not very "christian" of you.

If your "research" was as thorough as your last reply, I would hope that you don't vote. Go back and actually READ his post - perhaps you'll pick up the SUBTLE cues that you missed concerning his belief in Christ as a historical figure.

eqtworld: Jesus spoke more times and more harshly about sex outside of marriage than almost any other specific sin

Not that it really matters to me, but I always thought that "adultery" referred to marital infidelity, and that "fornication" was sex between two unmarried persons.

Robert Price, Bart Erhman, Burton Mack, James Robinson, Robert Funk, Rudolph Bultmann,

The list goes on and on of biblical scholars who don't believe it to be supernaturally inspired.

How can you not know this??

Slesfo: Robert Price, Bart Erhman, Burton Mack, James Robinson, Robert Funk, Rudolph Bultmann,

The list goes on and on of biblical scholars who don't believe it to be supernaturally inspired.

How can you not know this??

Hey, you mentioned him! So, I take it that you don't share Robert's view of a mythical Jesus then?