Absolute gun control works absolutely.

Somehow, people in my bucolic little village in Wisconsin manage not kill each other, even though everyone I know has guns. Dozens and dozens of guns. Hell, I know one guy who collects miltary firearms who must have two hundred rifles and a hundred handguns.

Maybe people should start looking at the real problem in urban violence.

No longer getting a kick out of these replies.

How many of those shootings were by members of the CPD?

Chicago's a HUGE farking city and 90% of the shootings/violence all involve blacks and latinos in certain high-crime neighborhoods.

It's not exactly like the "OK Corral" is being played out every other day in front of the Tribune tower.

Most Chicagoans have never ever set foot in these neighborhoods let alone any tourists.

So yeah, did some shootings occur?

Sure.

Is violence up?

Probably.

In areas that anybody who's ever visited Chicago has ever been to or will ever go to or have even ever heard of?

Not in a million years.

This is merely the sociological equivalent of a self-cleaning oven.

If and when this gun violence starts to disproportionally effect people who live in communities that aren't populated almost exclusively by thugs, gang-bangers, etc then there will be cause for concern.

Welcome to Chicago. Our Motto: Hey, At least it's not Detroit.

Bukharin: Welcome to Chicago. Our Motto: Hey, At least it's not Detroit.

In the alternative:

Welcome to Chicago, where we managed to ship most of our poor and violent to the south suburbs and downstate thus lowering our crime statistics while disproportionately sapping the police and social service resources of those who are much less able to deal with it.

Jon Snow: No longer getting a kick out of these replies.

Must be time to juke the stats.

Chicago Police tout that shootings are down in 2008, just before about 20 people are shot in a 12-hour period across city. Awkward

It does not count when the cops do the shootings.....

But it got warmer suddenly and the snow has melted. This is the start of the annual drive-by season. Soon to be followed by the "lots o' carjackings and drug busts" season.


Bukharin: Welcome to Chicago. Our Motto: Hey, At least it's not Detroit.
Heehee...

Oh_Enough_Already: If and when this gun violence starts to disproportionally effect people who live in communities that aren't populated almost exclusively by thugs, gang-bangers, etc then there will be cause for concern.

There are no innocent victims in poor neighbourhoods? As opposed to other areas?

The shootings have sent more than a dozen to area hospitals and three to the county morgue.

They send one of yours to the hospital; you send one of theirs to the morgue. That's the Chicago way.

/first thing I thought of

There are no innocent victims in poor neighbourhoods? As opposed to other areas?

They're poor and black/latino, so it's ok that they're getting shot.

yea...its just blacks and latinos thinning themselves out. Helps to reduce welfare.

Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers HAS been approved.

Molavian: Absolute gun control works absolutely.

Somehow, people in my bucolic little village in Wisconsin manage not kill each other, even though everyone I know has guns. Dozens and dozens of guns. Hell, I know one guy who collects miltary firearms who must have two hundred rifles and a hundred handguns.

Maybe people should start looking at the real problem in urban violence.

Maybe you should stop comparing urban ares like Chicago to your bucolic little village.

Sounds like it's time to redeploy to Okinawa.

Another failed zombie uprising swept under the rug by the media.

ill_83: Maybe you should stop comparing urban ares like Chicago to your bucolic little village.

I was mugged last year here in Chicago, at a train station. I probably wouldn't have been were handguns and concealed carry legal here. Petty criminals are far less likely to visit violence on your average Joe Citizen if law-abiding Joe might be carrying a gun.

Somebeody realized they were behind schedule and not going to make their quota.

syrynxx: The shootings have sent more than a dozen to area hospitals and three to the county morgue.

They send one of yours to the hospital; you send one of theirs to the morgue. That's the Chicago way.

/first thing I thought of
WIN!

Approves and encourages!

BorgHunter: ill_83: Maybe you should stop comparing urban ares like Chicago to your bucolic little village.

I was mugged last year here in Chicago, at a train station. I probably wouldn't have been were handguns and concealed carry legal here. Petty criminals are far less likely to visit violence on your average Joe Citizen if law-abiding Joe might be carrying a gun.

They'll also probably be less likely if you lived in a small town where you knew everyone carried guns, because you KNEW everyone. So what? If you think arming everyone in Chicago is a good idea and will somehow lower crime, you have got to be kidding me. Forget the thugs and petty criminals. Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

tukatz But it got warmer suddenly and the snow has melted. This is the start of the annual drive-by season.

Jeez, is there anything that you guys can't blame on global warming?

ill_83: They'll also probably be less likely if you lived in a small town where you knew everyone carried guns, because you KNEW everyone. So what? If you think arming everyone in Chicago is a good idea and will somehow lower crime, you have got to be kidding me. Forget the thugs and petty criminals. Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

I do think that more guns will lower crime, but that's not my main reason for being pro-gun. I'm pro-gun for a much more cerebral reason: It's every American's responsibility to ensure that his government is afraid of him. We've kind of forgotten that this is our responsibility, and it's a damn shame.

ill_83: BorgHunter: ill_83: Maybe you should stop comparing urban ares like Chicago to your bucolic little village.

I was mugged last year here in Chicago, at a train station. I probably wouldn't have been were handguns and concealed carry legal here. Petty criminals are far less likely to visit violence on your average Joe Citizen if law-abiding Joe might be carrying a gun.

They'll also probably be less likely if you lived in a small town where you knew everyone carried guns, because you KNEW everyone. So what? If you think arming everyone in Chicago is a good idea and will somehow lower crime, you have got to be kidding me. Forget the thugs and petty criminals. Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

What happens? Based on the evidence from the 48 states in the union that have concealed carry... pretty much nothing.

BorgHunter

lol. You think the government is afraid of you and your collection of 22's? Please.

jasuus1977: lol. You think the government is afraid of you and your collection of 22's? Please.

I don't own a gun at all, as it happens. But no, I'm not talking about pistols in that case; I'm talking about assault rifles and some fairly heavy-duty shiat. Obviously, there should be some rational limits on the kind of stuff Joe Sixpack can have, but when the United States government becomes corrupt and it's time for another revolution (which could happen 10 or 1000 years from now, but any student of history will tell you that it's very likely to happen at some point), the people should be well-armed so the government won't win that fight.

BorgHunter: ill_83: They'll also probably be less likely if you lived in a small town where you knew everyone carried guns, because you KNEW everyone. So what? If you think arming everyone in Chicago is a good idea and will somehow lower crime, you have got to be kidding me. Forget the thugs and petty criminals. Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

I do think that more guns will lower crime, but that's not my main reason for being pro-gun. I'm pro-gun for a much more cerebral reason: It's every American's responsibility to ensure that his government is afraid of him. We've kind of forgotten that this is our responsibility, and it's a damn shame.

Well then we would have to agree to disagree. I think arming that many people in a highly populated area like this would prevent crime in certain instances, but create many more opportunities at the same time. I think gun control laws should be more lax in rural areas where where the culture surrounding guns is completely different than in the suburbs or the city.

tukatz: This is the start of the annual drive-by season.

but, but, but, I'm only in pre-season form. I need at least two more weeks to get my trigger finger in shape!

ill_83: Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

What would happen to a "drunk frat boy" carrying on a concealed carry permit? Probably revocation of the permit at the least.

/Guns and alcohol don't mix.
//Concealed carry is a responsibility not to be taken lightly, not some tough guy fantasy.

And we still want the Olympics! Come here and get shot!

Oh_Enough_Already: Chicago's a HUGE farking city and 90% of the shootings/violence all involve blacks and latinos in certain high-crime neighborhoods.

It's not exactly like the "OK Corral" is being played out every other day in front of the Tribune tower.

Most Chicagoans have never ever set foot in these neighborhoods let alone any tourists.

So yeah, did some shootings occur?

Sure.

Is violence up?

Probably.

In areas that anybody who's ever visited Chicago has ever been to or will ever go to or have even ever heard of?

Not in a million years.

This is merely the sociological equivalent of a self-cleaning oven.

If and when this gun violence starts to disproportionally effect people who live in communities that aren't populated almost exclusively by thugs, gang-bangers, etc then there will be cause for concern.

If you replace "Chicago" with "Detroit" in this post it's still pretty accurate.

scotty425: ill_83: Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

What would happen to a "drunk frat boy" carrying on a concealed carry permit? Probably revocation of the permit at the least.

/Guns and alcohol don't mix.
//Concealed carry is a responsibility not to be taken lightly, not some tough guy fantasy.

In an ideal world, yes I would be all for carrying concealed weapons. In my opinion, there are just too many idiots out there who would resort to pulling a trigger before thinking about the repercussions. I agree that it is a responsibility to not be taken lightly, but I've seen regularly responsible people flip a lid due to alcohol, or adrenaline, or whatever. Then add in the non-responsible people to the mix, and I personally wouldn't feel safe knowing people are carrying.

Molavian: Maybe people should start looking at the real problem in urban violence.

You can't just leave that hanging. What is the problem, and what is your solution?

Legalize crack and heroin? Forced abortions for single mothers? Twenty year minimum sentence for first misdemeanor (unless you're white)? Higher welfare? Lower welfare? School vouchers?

Or what SquirrelWithLargeNuts said above?

If there is no crime who will need police, so can we place a neat conspiracy angle here...

"Chicago Police tout that shootings are down in 2008, just before about 20 people are shot in a 12-hour period across city."

Jeez, everybody knows you don't talk about a no-hitter during a no-hitter...because the next pitch will certainly be a line-drive back up the middle.

/Sorry, I'm just really glad baseball's back.

ill_83: scotty425: ill_83: Lets see what happens when you arm the frat boys who had little too much to drink every weekend in Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park.

What would happen to a "drunk frat boy" carrying on a concealed carry permit? Probably revocation of the permit at the least.

/Guns and alcohol don't mix.
//Concealed carry is a responsibility not to be taken lightly, not some tough guy fantasy.

In an ideal world, yes I would be all for carrying concealed weapons. In my opinion, there are just too many idiots out there who would resort to pulling a trigger before thinking about the repercussions. I agree that it is a responsibility to not be taken lightly, but I've seen regularly responsible people flip a lid due to alcohol, or adrenaline, or whatever. Then add in the non-responsible people to the mix, and I personally wouldn't feel safe knowing people are carrying.

You've got 48 other states with some form of concealed carry to choose from, can you come up with some instances similiar to what you describe?

Holy crap. One of the arrests picked up an AK-47?! Those are legal, or easily available to presumably economically disadvantaged people (basing this assumption on the neighbourhoods listed in the article) in America? What would you possibly need an AK-47 for? Going to a wedding in the Sunni Triangle?

Ilmarinen: Oh_Enough_Already: If and when this gun violence starts to disproportionally effect people who live in communities that aren't populated almost exclusively by thugs, gang-bangers, etc then there will be cause for concern.

There are no innocent victims in poor neighbourhoods? As opposed to other areas?

This. jasuus1977 and Oh_Enough_Already, maybe you should reconsider the assumptions you're basing your posts on. That the gun violence seems to be concentrated in specific areas doesn't make it, somehow, less of a problem for society as a whole. And gun violence does cost you, even if you somehow consider the deaths of people in poor neighbourhoods to be no tragedy at all. You pay in an overall lack of safety, more resources dedicated to policing, to prosecution and to incarceration (which is very expensive.) So even if you can't recognize the loss to families, recognize the economic fallout.

FTFA "No one was in custody in any of the shootings as of 6:30 a.m. "

Damn.

FTA:
From January through March, murders decreased 1.1 percent and aggravated batteries decreased 0.8 percent, according to a release Friday from police.

Sounds like someone in the police department needs to open up a high school statistics textbook and look up the phrase "not statistically significant".

Of course violence is up...the last week in Chicago has been warm. Criminals that have hibernating all winter are now outside and seeing 'rivals.'

bobbette: Holy crap. One of the arrests picked up an AK-47?! Those are legal, or easily available to presumably economically disadvantaged people (basing this assumption on the neighbourhoods listed in the article) in America? What would you possibly need an AK-47 for? Going to a wedding in the Sunni Triangle?

The AK-47's that are legally available in the United States are NOT fully automatic. An AK-47 sold in the US is no different from any other semi-automatic rifle. Fully automatic weapons have been illegal in this country for years (and still are).

Ilmarinen: Oh_Enough_Already: If and when this gun violence starts to disproportionally effect people who live in communities that aren't populated almost exclusively by thugs, gang-bangers, etc then there will be cause for concern.

There are no innocent victims in poor neighbourhoods? As opposed to other areas?

Not really.

Many of the folks in these neighborhoods if not part of the gang "culture" themselves either tacitly or implicitly allow approve and tolerate the gangs' presence in the neighborhoods as they rely upon the financial largess of the gangs' narcotics operations, etc.

Also, since they will never ever ever ever turn somebody in who they know committed a crime ("Stop Snitching" etc) they can't really protest too loudly (though they do put on a good mournful show in front of the cameras) when such violence rips through their neighborhood.

I feel pretty much the same way when people cry about "civilian deaths" in Gaza and the like.

Hey, you folks allowed these terrorists to take over your country, what did you expect was going to happen?

Replace "terrorists" with "gang bangers" and "country" with "neighborhood" and you pretty much have a description of large swaths of the west and south sides of Chicago.

Bottom line, you can't prevent or stop criminal activity in these communities when their entire "culture" is one founded on and that embraces and celebrates this same criminality.

Again, a comparison with radical Islam is appropriate.

How can you make peace with a people who embrace and celebrate martyrdom and death?

Ain't gonna happen.

Ultimately, as long as they keep killing each other in their neighborhoods and not the neighborhoods of white Chicagoans nobody is ever really gonna give a rat's ass and I'm not sure they should.

ill_83: In an ideal world, yes I would be all for carrying concealed weapons. In my opinion, there are just too many idiots out there who would resort to pulling a trigger before thinking about the repercussions. I agree that it is a responsibility to not be taken lightly, but I've seen regularly responsible people flip a lid due to alcohol, or adrenaline, or whatever. Then add in the non-responsible people to the mix, and I personally wouldn't feel safe knowing people are carrying.

"Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense." (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992)

"Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive new study at the University of Chicago." Link (pops)

ill_83: Maybe you should stop comparing urban ares like Chicago to your bucolic little village.

Well, that's just racist.

realjd: Fully automatic weapons have been illegal in this country for years (and still are).

Not quite true. An average citizen in most states can own fully automatic weapons if they are a Class III license holder. However the supply of such weapons is extrememly limited as no new manufactured weapons may be sold; only currently held weapons are legal to sell. A Class III license is more difficult to get and involves a more extensive background check.

scotty425:
In an ideal world, yes I would be all for carrying concealed weapons. In my opinion, there are just too many idiots out there who would resort to pulling a trigger before thinking about the repercussions. I agree that it is a responsibility to not be taken lightly, but I've seen regularly responsible people flip a lid due to alcohol, or adrenaline, or whatever. Then add in the non-responsible people to the mix, and I personally wouldn't feel safe knowing people are carrying.

You've got 48 other states with some form of concealed carry to choose from, can you come up with some instances similiar to what you describe?

Nothing more than anecdotal. I've seen fights escalate. I have seen people resort to weapons (broken bottles, knives), and have seen how when the adrenaline gets pumping they make some stupid decisions. I would just personally not feel safe. I'm curious though, has crime decreased after a place has enacted these conceal laws? Do thugs in those ares NOT jump people, because they think they might be carrying guns? I don't think that would stop thugs here unless they though EVERYONE was carrying a gun.

/obligatory

BorgHunter: ill_83: In an ideal world, yes I would be all for carrying concealed weapons. In my opinion, there are just too many idiots out there who would resort to pulling a trigger before thinking about the repercussions. I agree that it is a responsibility to not be taken lightly, but I've seen regularly responsible people flip a lid due to alcohol, or adrenaline, or whatever. Then add in the non-responsible people to the mix, and I personally wouldn't feel safe knowing people are carrying.

"Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense." (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992)

"Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive new study at the University of Chicago." Link (pops)

touche

realjd Sounds like someone in the police department needs to open up a high school statistics textbook and look up the phrase "not statistically significant".

Right now Hillary and Barack would beg to differ. 1% is neither significant or insignificant, it depends on the sample size and other factors. 1.1% of all Americans is, as an example, a very significant number.

ill_83: I'm curious though, has crime decreased after a place has enacted these conceal laws? Do thugs in those ares NOT jump people, because they think they might be carrying guns? I don't think that would stop thugs here unless they though EVERYONE was carrying a gun.

BorgHunter has added a link that might answer some of your questions. Hope you can check it out.