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(Politico) Interesting Because things are getting salty in the Democratic primary, here are 12 reasons "bitter" is bad for Obama. This must be sweet for McCain, who is enjoying seeing his opponents turn sour   (politico.com) divider line 101
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burndtdan 2008-04-13 01:33:50 AM  
i doubt it's going to be that big of a deal.

 
Fraggler [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 01:48:50 AM  
here are 12 reasons "bitter" is bad for Obama Umami

 
AwCrap 2008-04-13 01:49:03 AM  
I've seen a bit on the news the last couple of days on how McSame has pulled virtually even with Obama/Hillary in the polling; but I strongly suspect that will end quickly once the press stops focusing on the Dem race (once it's over) and starts listening to the utter stupidity that Johnny spews almost daily.

 
bulldg4life [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 01:51:51 AM  
I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have a president that got a chuckle out of "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran" when asked about the middle east...

And, honestly, that's really the only thing I can picture when someone says John McCain.

 
Sun God [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 01:57:11 AM  
Wow. Talk about begging a pretty stupid question.

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 02:14:51 AM  
It's too bad that Obama's words are taken out of context and given meaning he didn't imply.

What is even worse is that some people buy into that particular brand of bullshiat. :(

 
Robobuu 2008-04-13 02:28:19 AM  
Salty.

 
chu2dogg 2008-04-13 02:28:41 AM  
It's too bad that Obama's words are taken out of context and given meaning he didn't imply.

Wait, isn't what he said true and I'm brainwashed by power elites not to believe it?

*Off to check other threads*
**confused by this particular brand of bullshiat**


 
johne3819 [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 02:32:50 AM  
If Barack did this, I hope it's totally out of context. Unfortunately, most of the wording I've seen, isn't in Obama's good light.

I know anyone can misspeak, but now would be the worst time.

 
IamSpartacus 2008-04-13 02:42:46 AM  
I come back from a half year jont in another country, hearing glimpses of what is going on in American politics and this is what discourse is?

Seriously. I dont understand the issue with Wright, but his speech I saw just the other day was great. Now we are talking about quotes out of context, and a hint of "elitism".

I dont know much about Obama, but I will say I am surprised by the lack of media self reporting. It is sad that American journalism has fallen so low, not that it was ever that great.

I hope someone goes to the new Newseum in DC and makes a stink about the way elections are covered.

 
moriarty23 2008-04-13 02:42:58 AM  
johne3819: If Barack did this, I hope it's totally out of context. Unfortunately, most of the wording I've seen, isn't in Obama's good light.

I know anyone can misspeak, but now would be the worst time.

Obama didn't misspeak, lots of people really are bitter about being abandoned by their government. The only people who see this in a bad light are bookies and sheep.

 
YesWeHaveNoBannanas 2008-04-13 02:43:16 AM  
bulldg4life: I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have a president that got a chuckle out of "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran" when asked about the middle east...

And, honestly, that's really the only thing I can picture when someone says John McCain.

This is the crux of what people need to know about this asshat.Who in their right mind would vote for that tool after hearing that come out of his mouth so happily, is beyond me.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 02:50:08 AM  
if this becomes a bigger issue than sniper gate, america deserves to be farked over by a president as horrible as Hillary CLinton.

fark this country. Jesus christ.

 
McStinky 2008-04-13 02:50:16 AM  
It won't matter. Pennsylvania was Shrillary's state anyway, she'll win by a slight, this won't make a damn bit of difference. I don't live in Penn and couldn't give a shiat about them when it comes to who I'm voting for, so I don't think it will carry on. Most dems will have to give Barack the BoTD or we can't give Shrillary the whole f-ing kitchen sink of doubt, which you'd have to.

 
Sun God [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 02:50:39 AM  
moriarty23: Obama didn't misspeak, lots of people really are bitter about being abandoned by their government.

In older terms, it's called disenfranchisement. A feeling that your government doesn't have your best interests at heart, and, in fact has no interest in your best interests.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 02:51:57 AM  
moriarty23: Obama didn't misspeak, lots of people really are bitter about being abandoned by their government.

Obama's meaning, that you paraphrase, was meant. But he didn't quite state his argument in the most elequent terms.

it is idiotic that this is an issue. He wasn't saying anything elitist at all.

 
jahova 2008-04-13 02:59:18 AM  
let's see....
post steering thread towards talk about mccain. check
post saying obama was misunderstood. check (lol)
post saying what obama said was true, but people can't handle it. check (and double lol)

I never thought watching obama's campaign implode would be so much fun. :)


/obama 08 the "Enron" of emotional investment

 
hyperspacemonkey 2008-04-13 02:59:28 AM  
I'm a bamboozled child who enjoys being condescended to, and I'm really getting a kick out of these replies. Mike Allen is kind of pissing into the wind with a few of these points.

The picture next to his article is of the Dalai Lama making...devil horns? Wtf?

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 03:02:02 AM  

I never thought watching obama's campaign implode would be so much fun. :)

*eye roll*

If you think his campaign is "imploding" you are even dumber than your post reads.

 
gilgigamesh 2008-04-13 03:16:44 AM  
chu2dogg: It's too bad that Obama's words are taken out of context and given meaning he didn't imply.
Wait, isn't what he said true and I'm brainwashed by power elites not to believe it?

Yes.

Both are true.

 
J. Walter Weatherman 2008-04-13 03:18:58 AM  
God you sheep are dumb. When will you realize that Obama is nothing but an elitist. Sure Hillary made 100 times as much money as him over the past 7 years. Sure McCain's Weeners to the housing crisis was a ridiculous mix of Social Darwinism and Marie Antoinette. And yeah, maybe Hillary constant "embellishing" and McCain's election year flip flopping on almost every issue represent everything wrong with Washington DC politics. But, come on, Obama said something inarticulate. Clearly Obama needs to quit the race before he tears the country apart.

But seriously...are the cable news networks getting their talking points direct from Shillary and McNasty? All day I've heard anchors parroting this elitism line with no analysis about how ironic it is for these two people to call Obama out of touch.

/looking forward to a McCain/Hillary ticket and the inevitable end of out civilization

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 03:24:21 AM  

Full context for what he said before this thread goes much further:

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Which is quite a bit different than just quoting, "they cling to guns or religion" or, "it's not surprising then that they get bitter" or some combination there of.

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 03:25:22 AM  
J. Walter Weatherman: All day I've heard anchors parroting this elitism line with no analysis about how ironic it is for these two people to call Obama out of touch.

I've heard a bit about how the claims of elitism from Obama are totally off base and in total contrast to his actual biography.

 
Xenu's Giant Pink Replicock 2008-04-13 03:28:39 AM  
Because things are getting salty in the Democratic primary, here are 12 reasons "bitter" is bad for Obama. This must be sweet for McCain, who is enjoying seeing his opponents turn sour

Republicans in general must be savoring this, for now anyway.

 
Now That's What I Call a Taco! 2008-04-13 03:30:47 AM  
J. Walter Weatherman: +1

I love how the same people on here yelling, "OBAMA IS JUST ANOTHER POLITICIAN!!!" are the ones holding him to a much higher standard than they hold Hillary or Johnny Mac. How DARE someone running for president suggest he has a plan that's best for America! That's so ELITIST and CONDESCENDING!

 
jahova 2008-04-13 03:37:53 AM  
J. Walter Weatherman: But, come on, Obama said something inarticulate.

umm......this is way worse than an "inarticulate statement." He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter. He's finally revealing his true sentiments. Obama has so far been showing us just the trailer for the movie, and those all look great. But, now people are actually starting to see the actual movie and, as so often happens, they're, like "well, this sucks..." You can down-play it all you want, but, make no mistake, this is a huge fark up.

 
outatime 2008-04-13 03:38:44 AM  
JohnnyC: J. Walter Weatherman: All day I've heard anchors parroting this elitism line with no analysis about how ironic it is for these two people to call Obama out of touch.

I've heard a bit about how the claims of elitism from Obama are totally off base and in total contrast to his actual biography.

A couple of the local radio stations here run Fox News segments (they're Clear Channel stations, go fig) and the big lead-in to every news break I heard tonight was "DAMAGE CONTROL IN THE OBAMA CAMP!!!!" Can't say I heard much beyond that, I reflexively change the station when those things come on, but Fox News is already gleefully reporting "damage" to his campaign, for certain.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 03:38:55 AM  
He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter.

No he didn't.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 03:43:23 AM  
Although I love how elitists like jahova think all poor people are idiots and will believe something like that just becuase fox news says so.

 
TurboKitty 2008-04-13 03:45:04 AM  
I'm very hurriedly looking up AUTHENTICITY in my online en carta dictionary.

 
Send out the clowns 2008-04-13 03:45:25 AM  
I am a firm believer that, despite all our struggles, civilization is slowly progressing along a positive path.
So why does every subsequent election cycle remind me more and more of a he/she said high school popularity contest?

Was it like this in the 60s/70s/80s, where a (to me at least) seemingly insignificant statement could generate this much bad press and potentially derail a candidacy, or have campaign/media tactics really changed that much?

 
Whatsleft 2008-04-13 03:45:34 AM  
If he had just changed "cling" to "comfort" there would have been absolutely positively no controversy. This is a matter of connotation more than anything.

 
pavinrtheway [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 03:47:03 AM  
I was a little scared for Obama when I first heard this.

His response was extraordinary and if it gets heard he'll be stronger from this.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 03:48:27 AM  
pavinrtheway [TotalFark] Quote 2008-04-13 03:47:03 AM
I was a little scared for Obama when I first heard this.

The only problem with this comment is the timing. Although it isn't hte worst timing the world. The election in PA is still over a week away.

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 03:49:27 AM  
jahova: He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter.

Wow did you miss the point (on purpose?) of what Obama was saying.

 
jahova 2008-04-13 03:50:48 AM  
Bill Frist: He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter.

No he didn't.

yes he did. :P

Look, Im left leaning, but I certainly understand that not everyone is. And them not being like me is not a "cling to" whatever type response on their part, or "scapegoating their frustrations" or wtf ever. They just have different beliefs, and they have reasons for believing such things; that are valid too!

His statement implies that if they weren't poor and frustrated they would not be clinging to those things, right? hence they would be just like HIM. It's a mind boggling-ly arrogant statement

 
J. Walter Weatherman 2008-04-13 03:51:11 AM  
Now That's What I Call a Taco!: J. Walter Weatherman: +1

I love how the same people on here yelling, "OBAMA IS JUST ANOTHER POLITICIAN!!!" are the ones holding him to a much higher standard than they hold Hillary or Johnny Mac. How DARE someone running for president suggest he has a plan that's best for America! That's so ELITIST and CONDESCENDING!

The problem here is the same as the problem on cable news: too much equivocation. People assume that all politicians are equal and that media coverage of said politicians has to be exactly the same. So, when Obama says people are bitter about the economy being run for fat cats by fat cats, it gets the same response as Hillary telling outright lies...repeatedly. I have also yet to hear a single news story of over 30 seconds about McCain doing complete 180s on immigration, housing, Bush tax cuts, campaign finance, Iraq, ...hell, even Roe v Wade Link (new window). I remember in 2000 Al Gore got called a serial exaggerater and in 2004 Kelly was branded a flip flopper.

So McCain gets a free pass and Hillary's antics are equated to Obama saying something inarticulatly... fark the media.

/angry rant over
//four years of people telling me they wish they hadn't voted for President Bush McCain, just beginning.

 
jahova 2008-04-13 03:56:59 AM  
JohnnyC: jahova: He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter.

Wow did you miss the point (on purpose?) of what Obama was saying.

What did I not get? He equated their beliefs and.... i don't know.. culture? to somekind of defense mechanism from being marginalized in society. Seems like a pretty straight forward flame of the rural citizenry to me.

 
Sun God [TotalFark] 2008-04-13 03:57:10 AM  
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: First, subjecting prisoners to abuse leads to bad intelligence because under torture, a detainee will tell his interrogator anything to make the pain stop. Second, mistreatment of our prisoners endangers U.S. troops who might be captured by the enemy, if not in this war, then in the next.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 03:57:59 AM  

yes he did. :P

No, not at all.

What is he said is that people in certain areas have had government fail them for decades and they now distrust government and politics in all forms and they cling harder to the things they DO trust and ignore the policians who have failed them forever.

That does not say, by any stretch of the imagination, that all rural people would turn into "limo liberals" (whatever that is supposed to mean) if they had more money.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 04:01:39 AM  
Also, while much of the article makes sense, this one is pretty silly:


6. It provides a handy excuse for people who were looking for a reason not to vote for Obama but don't want to think of themselves as bigoted.

This is a retraded argument. People have PLENTY of excuses (good or bad) to vote for Hillary if they dislike Obama. I highly doubt there is more than a handful of peopel who don't want to vote for Obama but were going to up until this comment. Anyone who already didn't want to vote for Obama already wasn't going to vote for him.

 
jahova 2008-04-13 04:03:42 AM  
Bill Frist: yes he did. :P

No, not at all.

What is he said is that people in certain areas have had government fail them for decades and they now distrust government and politics in all forms and they cling harder to the things they DO trust and ignore the policians who have failed them forever.

That does not say, by any stretch of the imagination, that all rural people would turn into "limo liberals" (whatever that is supposed to mean) if they had more money.

wow, that's a pretty elaborate read of a simple statement. I highly doubt 99% of the people who hear his exact words would parse that out of it, and since he's running for pres., that's what matters.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 04:05:05 AM  
The other point people are missing is that the bungling Clinton campaign is already overplaying its hand.

They shoudl have let Obama stew in his own mess here (just like he didn't say anything when she lied about sniper fire), instead Hillary is running out to brag about how she is a gun-lover and is trying to portray herself as some beer drinking, duck hunting everyman.

That is likely to backfire. Rural PA people aren't idiots and know that when a silver spoon fed condescending career politician pretends to be your buddy they are full of shiat.

 
J. Walter Weatherman 2008-04-13 04:05:28 AM  
umm......this is way worse than an "inarticulate statement." He basically said rednecks would be limousine liberals too if they weren't poor and bitter. He's finally revealing his true sentiments. Obama has so far been showing us just the trailer for the movie, and those all look great. But, now people are actually starting to see the actual movie and, as so often happens, they're, like "well, this sucks..." You can down-play it all you want, but, make no mistake, this is a huge fark up.


What he said was that peoples' frustrations about lack of economic opportunity manifest themselves in different ways. Often, these frustrations are directed in directions unrelated to the cause of the real problems. What part of that is untrue?

jahova: J. Walter Weatherman: But, come on, Obama said something inarticulate.
pavinrtheway: I was a little scared for Obama when I first heard this.

His response was extraordinary and if it gets heard he'll be stronger from this.

I agree 100%. Hillary jumped on this a bit too soon with her "people aren't bitter" line. Who the hell can possibly disagree that the economy sucks, the people running it are farking us over, and we should be mad as hell about it?

God damn! Even as I'm typing this the damn CNN news loop is playing the news clip again that I've seen 4 times today.
"Sen. Obama admits to making a huge mistake...says poor people are racist jebus loving gun nuts... (Clip of Obama saying he misspoke, that cuts out his full explanation) Sen. Clinton calls the statements elitist and out of touch....moving on to the American Airlines story"

I think if i don't take a week long break form cable news...my head will explode

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 04:06:57 AM  

wow, that's a pretty elaborate read of a simple statement.

It is a simple read of a simple statement. Your's is a deliberate twisting of the statement.

But anyway, this is no different than Clinton's flap insulting Mississippi (when she claimed Iowa was better than Mississippi and she couldn't believe Iowa was acting like Miss. by not having voted for a female politican at the statewide level).

Obama's campaign played that comment on air in Miss, but there isn't any evidence it did any real damage.

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 04:07:31 AM  
jahova: His statement implies that if they weren't poor and frustrated they would not be clinging to those things, right?

No... his statement implies that people are bitter at the government and politicians for lying to them time and time again when it comes time to vote and then doing nothing to fulfill the promises they make. So instead of actually believing in government, they reserve their faith for other things.

By the way. I don't think "cling" means what you think it means:

Cling:
1.to adhere closely; stick to: The wet paper clings to the glass.
2.to hold tight, as by grasping or embracing; cleave: The children clung to each other in the dark.
3.to be or remain close: The child clung to her mother's side.
4.to remain attached, as to an idea, hope, memory, etc.: Despite the predictions, the candidate clung to the belief that he would be elected.
5.to cohere.
-noun
6.the act of clinging; adherence; attachment.

No where in the definition of the word does it denote desperation or any kind of negative connotation. In fact, if you take the real meaning of the word and replace it in his statement:

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they hold closely to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


As for being poor... I think the idea here is that they've fallen on hard times and that those hard times have lasted a long time, partly due to leadership not getting on board with ideas to fix those kinds of problems in people's lives. So connecting with people after previous politicians who came before him is difficult because they have had bad experiences in the past.

He isn't imply at all they they should be like him, but that perhaps they shouldn't judge him by the words and lack of action of politicians who have come before him.

Make sense now?

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 04:08:26 AM  

I agree 100%. Hillary jumped on this a bit too soon with her "people aren't bitter" line.

Hillary's response was typically idiotic.

The smart political move would hvae been to highlight the thinks Jaovah is trying to do. The "bitter" part is NOT the word to get hung up on, from her perspective. People ARE indeed bitter about politics adn teh economy. Claiming they aren't makes you look completely out of touch.

 
jahova 2008-04-13 04:12:10 AM  
JohnnyC: jahova: His statement implies that if they weren't poor and frustrated they would not be clinging to those things, right?

No... his statement implies that people are bitter at the government and politicians for lying to them time and time again when it comes time to vote and then doing nothing to fulfill the promises they make. So instead of actually believing in government, they reserve their faith for other things.

By the way. I don't think "cling" means what you think it means:


Fine, hit the bricks in PA with a dictionary, try to convince them. In the normal parlance, it indicates weakness or desperation. Neither of which is a good characterization of the electorate you are courting.

 
JohnnyC 2008-04-13 04:15:11 AM  
Bill Frist: That is likely to backfire. Rural PA people aren't idiots and know that when a silver spoon fed condescending career politician pretends to be your buddy they are full of shiat.

Which is essentially the opposite of Obama's past. He didn't grow up rich and had to work very hard for what he has achieved. His life and wealth was not handed to him as it was with Hillary.

By the way... just to make sure you know, I agree with you that it will probably backfire. People already know Clinton can't seem to keep herself from lying to people and essentially did the very thing Obama was talking about... made false promises that she cares about their problems when it is plainly obvious that she does not. Essentially Hillary is an example of what he was talking about.

 
Bill Frist 2008-04-13 04:16:26 AM  
notice how jahova is moving the goalposts as quick as he can.

Yes, this comment sounds like a blunder and your average person will probably dislike it for the reasons you list.

But if this is Obama's worst verbal gaffe... well, lets just say he looks to be far stronger than Hillary or McCain.

Hillary's sniper fire lies and McCain's "I'd be fine staying in Iraq for another 100 years" are far worse gaffes that will damage theri candidacies much more than this thing.

 
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