buy them some drinks.

That's just the pilot version, though.
I wonder what happens if it gets picked up.

Yeah. Lets complain to American for making sure we are flying safe. Those bastards.

Ahhh, all that bad stuff that happened was the union's fault. Now everything makes sense again.

I can't believe how often I forget that! I'd write myself a note, but eh, I've got Fark.

I would think they are upset they can't put their aviator sunglasses on and cruise the airport for hot chicks with all the flak they are taking.

epyonyx: Yeah. Lets complain to American for making sure we are flying safe. Those bastards.

They could not have fixed those planes earlier and in a more controlled fashion?

I seriously don't understand the headline. Why is it funny? There must be some running common knowledge that pilot's unions do nothing? Should they not be mad at their employer for farking up?

I'll never get over Macho Grande

its not our fault your wife likes us better subby.

MD80s are old and AA is getting rid of all of them by 2012. AA is only getting this reacharound because it took one little snitch who thought he was doing good work by pointing out Southwest problems, and now everyone freaking out.

The planes are fine, they all have problems once in a while, so sit down and have a cocktail. And some peanuts. But those will cost you...

Heh, beacause instead of complying with the FAA, they should have just flown them anyways, and paid the union pilots twice as much, because I'm sure they wouldn't complain if there was a safety issue!... I mean really, what could go wrong?

/boom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Clinton

LULZ

I'm no pilot, but it's my understanding that they work something like 60 hours a month. When you figure that they go on the clock the moment they walk into an airport, and ends when they walk out the other side. It doesn't work out to many days of "work".

I may be mistaken, but I think they are on the clock when they fly and have to stay overnight. If that's the case, it might work out to 2-3 days of work every month. I know that I work 60 hours in a slightly above average week. So I can see why people might be a little upset with their complaints.

My father is a pilot with American, and I'm not getting a kick out of this at all.

heywood jablomi: I'm no pilot, but it's my understanding that they work something like 60 hours a month. When you figure that they go on the clock the moment they walk into an airport, and ends when they walk out the other side. It doesn't work out to many days of "work".

I may be mistaken, but I think they are on the clock when they fly and have to stay overnight. If that's the case, it might work out to 2-3 days of work every month. I know that I work 60 hours in a slightly above average week. So I can see why people might be a little upset with their complaints.

Actually you are full of shiat, they do work a set number of hours a month. Those hours are flight times only and do not include time spent waiting in airports, preflights etc. Anti-union fark-knob.

heywood jablomi: If that's the case, it might work out to 2-3 days of work every month.

How the hell can they afford anything? They must be really, really well paid.

/goes to get pilot's license

heywood jablomi: I'm no pilot, but it's my understanding that they work something like 60 hours a month.

You'd be mistaken, as he said. Airline pilots fly somewhere around 80 hours a month, but they're generally at work twice that many. The "working 80 hours a month" refers strictly to the time the plane is moving under its own power. All the other stuff, like getting the plane ready for the flight and making sure it's safe to fly, checking weather, waiting for maintenance to fix something, waiting for passengers to get on board, etc., is not paid time. If the plane sits for 3 hours before it turns around and flies somewhere else, that's not paid time. Nor is the time at the hotel. The only "on the clock" time is when the door is closed and the parking brake is released.

I may be mistaken, but I think they are on the clock when they fly and have to stay overnight.

Again, you're mistaken. They work much longer hours than the "80 hours a month" you hear, and that doesn't include the time away from home on overnights.

Apparently this isn't so much a safety issue, but over turf. As I understand it, there was an airworthiness directive (AD) from the FAA requiring a fix to a wiring bundle. AA did a fix while the AD was being created, but didn't fix the problem exactly the way the FAA specified, so technically they are in violation of the AD even though apparently nobody is saying the way AA did it wasn't safe. It's a technicality. Not that airline's don't skimp on maintenance some times (not to mention flying airplanes to third world countries to do overhauls, but that's another story), but I suspect this is mainly a case of the FAA doing a power play to prove they are tough on safety.

I own a single engine airplane; and it's virtually impossible to comply with the FAA's AD's and maintenance methodologies, some of which are either obsolete, dangerous, conflicting, or all three.

I fly for a regional airline, and the best my schedule will ever be is working 4 days on/3 days off a week. (When I upgrade to captain, I'll be lucky to be home 11 days a month.)

You're thinking, well hey, I only get two days off. No fair! Yes, but you get to come home and sleep in your own bed every night. And unless a pilot is very senior, he'll work weekends and holidays for years.

I'm not complaining, I signed up to do this. But it ain't like the movie "Catch me if You Can." There are still some opportunities to make big money in the airlines, but most of us are lucky to be doing okay. I love what I do and don't care about being rich. The time away from family is the biggest sacrifice.

heywood jablomi: I'm no pilot, but it's my understanding that they work something like 60 hours a month. When you figure that they go on the clock the moment they walk into an airport, and ends when they walk out the other side. It doesn't work out to many days of "work".

I may be mistaken, but I think they are on the clock when they fly and have to stay overnight. If that's the case, it might work out to 2-3 days of work every month. I know that I work 60 hours in a slightly above average week. So I can see why people might be a little upset with their complaints.

As others have said, you're wrong.

My Father is a captain for United, and when he was doing his international stint in the 747-400 he was home about 6 days a month.

Constant lay overs, flying to the states and turning right back around again, etc.

He would bid the trips nobody wanted to get holidays off, for the family.

Pilots have a rough job, a very rough job, that takes a lot of time, effort, and more thinking than most people can muster in a week. More over, they're responsible for the safety of everyone who flies.

The maintenance on planes is actually more complicated than people think. There's a certain amount of time/flight hours that planes are allowed before they need to be completely serviced. Of course, if this happened all at once, the plane would be taken apart for months and you'd need a large number of hangers fully outfitted with mechanics and shops.

Instead, they split it all up, so one month they will fly to Chicago, where the engines will be overhauled, and the next month that plane will be scheduled to make a trip to O'Hare, where the landing gear gets overhauled, and so on. The problem is when you have a problem with a certain aspect (wiring, etc.) in a large number of plans and need them overhauled more often than not the planes are grounded and are thousands of miles away from the city that has the hanger/mechanics for that specific purpose. Well now you have to get crews to go to each grounded plane, etc.

This is also why weather delays screw things up so much. If a plane has to get to Chicago for it's engines to be overhauled and snow cancels the flight and it misses the deadline, it gets grounded until the engines are looked at. Real pain in the ass.

/The more you know.
//For how many people fly compared to the number of incidents, I think they're doing a pretty damn good job.

Put O'Hare and meant to put something like Newark.

One point has been removed from my internet license.

heywood jablomi: I'm no pilot, but it's my understanding that they work something like 60 hours a month. When you figure that they go on the clock the moment they walk into an airport, and ends when they walk out the other side. It doesn't work out to many days of "work".

I may be mistaken, but I think they are on the clock when they fly and have to stay overnight. If that's the case, it might work out to 2-3 days of work every month. I know that I work 60 hours in a slightly above average week. So I can see why people might be a little upset with their complaints.

I'm an airline pilot. My typical month has 9-12 days off. Sounds great eh? Well, that is until you consider the fact that a 12 hour day is a "short" day for us... 14-15 hours is common on days with bad weather and delays. And then when we're done, we go to a hotel, not to our house. I spend roughly half my nights in hotels. Yes I may only fly 80-100 hours a month, but I am on duty, at the airport, in my uniform... 200-250 hours a month.

I'm only being paid when the door is closed.... so anytime you see me dealing with maintenance, going over weather, preparing for flights, answering questions, etc... I'm working for free.

I love my job and thats why I do it, but it sure isn't for the quality of life or pay. My airline has pilots that are paid less than $22,000 dollars a year. No, not some no name airline, we are a division of one of the major airlines in this country. Flying jets around, probably with your friends or family in the back of them.

When its late at night and youre coming into an airport with lots of bad weather and snow or thunderstorms, consider the fact that your pilot may have been on duty for 14 hours already that day and hasn't seen his family (whom he feeds with food stamps) in a week.

I'm not exaggerating one bit. Theres a difference between the airline pilots of the 1960s, or the airline pilots in movies that the public sees... and what the reality is.

Being an airline pilot is no walk in the park. These guys earn their money.

thatguyfred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Clinton

LULZ

Idiot. Your changes only lasted 65 seconds. Proud of yourself?

Uncle Karl: epyonyx: Yeah. Lets complain to American for making sure we are flying safe. Those bastards.

They could not have fixed those planes earlier and in a more controlled fashion?

They had 18 months to wrap up some bundles of wires in the wheel wells. They had plenty of time.

FTA: The airline thought it had done the repair work two weeks ago

In other words "Our right hand has no farking clue what the left hand is doing". Shiatty management IMO. How farking hard is it to pull up a maintenance checklist on a computer and verify it?

FTA:The airline thought it had done the repair work two weeks ago, when it scrubbed more than 400 flights, but the FAA said the wiring still wasn't properly secured and stowed in wheel wells.

Thats what they get for using union labor. Is anyone really surprised that people getting paid way more than their credentials or quality of work would indicate cut corners and do sub-par work?

The real issue with AA is that they consistently shaft the maintenance crews. Those knucklebusters would have never let those birds get in the shape they're in, except that every time they go to management and say "hey guys there's some important work we really ought to get out ahead of before it becomes a problem," management says "eh thats good enough." Seriously, look at the suits cuz this steaming pile came directly from their unwillingness to look past the bonuses they get for cutting overtime. Your safety is not their job 1. They typically believe the fleet is "over maintained." Think about that next time you get on an AA plane. As for me, I swore off ever flying their crap ass airline years ago.

The Devil's Workshop: The real issue with AA is that they consistently shaft the maintenance crews. Those knucklebusters would have never let those birds get in the shape they're in, except that every time they go to management and say "hey guys there's some important work we really ought to get out ahead of before it becomes a problem," management says "eh thats good enough." .

This is where I start looking for a new job as I'd willingly break company policy to ensure that equipment and machinery is up to spec. ESPECIALLY aircraft. Management can eat my ass.

/wonders if some of their management team even know how to use a screwdriver

Lusiphur
FTA:The airline thought it had done the repair work two weeks ago, when it scrubbed more than 400 flights, but the FAA said the wiring still wasn't properly secured and stowed in wheel wells.

Thats what they get for using union labor. Is anyone really surprised that people getting paid way more than their credentials or quality of work would indicate cut corners and do sub-par work?

nice try, troll. too bad your scabby ass is not good enough to join a union.

/FAA motto: "we're not happy till you're not happy"

FTA: A spokesman for American, John Hotard

Hehe.

People biatch about pilots and lump them in with other employees, but when a manager, or an accountant, or a ticket agent makes a mistake, it can be caught and corrected after the fact. When a pilot makes a mistake, a lot of people can die. It's difficult to fix that. A pilot is not just another worker.

Inflatable Rhetoric: People biatch about pilots and lump them in with other employees, but when a manager, or an accountant, or a ticket agent makes a mistake, it can be caught and corrected after the fact. When a pilot makes a mistake, a lot of people can die. It's difficult to fix that. A pilot is not just another worker.

Same for aircraft maintenance, to some extent.

Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: People biatch about pilots and lump them in with other employees, but when a manager, or an accountant, or a ticket agent makes a mistake, it can be caught and corrected after the fact. When a pilot makes a mistake, a lot of people can die. It's difficult to fix that. A pilot is not just another worker.

Same for aircraft maintenance, to some extent.

And, the FAA is owned and operated by the same parent company than runs the Post Office.

The Devil's Workshop: The real issue with AA is that they consistently shaft the maintenance crews. Those knucklebusters would have never let those birds get in the shape they're in, except that every time they go to management and say "hey guys there's some important work we really ought to get out ahead of before it becomes a problem," management says "eh thats good enough." Seriously, look at the suits cuz this steaming pile came directly from their unwillingness to look past the bonuses they get for cutting overtime.

Well, shiat, if you're paying high school dropouts $25 an hour to do maintenance work, and you can't do it for cheaper because of the union, no shiat they need to cut hours. The unions are just as guilty of douche-baggery in this as the suits. I gurantee if you look at airlines serviced in non-unionized countries the difference would be remarkable.

hockey fool: nice try, troll. too bad your scabby ass is not good enough to join a union.

Teamsters Local 891 '05-'06. Left after they prevented a co-worker from getting fired, despite the fact that he showed up late almost every day and took every other friday off.

Vollunteered to assist Project Acorn in unionizing state of NJ needy familly assistance childcare providers, summer of '04 (or '05, don't remember anymore.) Quit when I realized most of the people we were trying to help were scumbag scam artists collecting a check from the state for providing care to non-existent children.

I've seen too many examples of the kinds of exemplary employees the unions represent. If you can't stand on your own without the union behind you, you are not qualified to be doing the work you're doing, at the wages you're doing it at, with the quality that you put out.

Pilots are overpaid bus drivers, any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Pulling in six figures to fly in the right seat a couple of days out of the month is NOT hard work. The planes can take off and land by themselves, and most of the navigation is done by the flight computer. The pilots are simply redundant and are a vestige that remains only due to the fact that the public needs to see a human in the flight deck.

That said, I DO feel sorry for the schmucks that are flying the RJ's and getting paid peanuts. That, no doubt, is the other end of the spectrum...and it sucks. They will, however, have their day.

I have zero compassion for the average member of the APA, etc. They're the whiniest bunch of prima donnas I've every encountered.

Sol Invicti: Pilots are overpaid bus drivers, any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Pulling in six figures to fly in the right seat a couple of days out of the month is NOT hard work. The planes can take off and land by themselves, and most of the navigation is done by the flight computer. The pilots are simply redundant and are a vestige that remains only due to the fact that the public needs to see a human in the flight deck.

That said, I DO feel sorry for the schmucks that are flying the RJ's and getting paid peanuts. That, no doubt, is the other end of the spectrum...and it sucks. They will, however, have their day.

I have zero compassion for the average member of the APA, etc. They're the whiniest bunch of prima donnas I've every encountered.

No commercial flights take off and land by themselves.

Sol Invicti: Pilots are overpaid bus drivers, any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Pulling in six figures to fly in the right seat a couple of days out of the month is NOT hard work. The planes can take off and land by themselves, and most of the navigation is done by the flight computer. The pilots are simply redundant and are a vestige that remains only due to the fact that the public needs to see a human in the flight deck.

That said, I DO feel sorry for the schmucks that are flying the RJ's and getting paid peanuts. That, no doubt, is the other end of the spectrum...and it sucks. They will, however, have their day.

I have zero compassion for the average member of the APA, etc. They're the whiniest bunch of prima donnas I've every encountered.

You see passengers interviewed after some sort of near tragedy saying, "The pilot saved our lives." That's true of every flight, unless you're killed.

Sol Invicti: Pilots are overpaid bus drivers, any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous. Pulling in six figures to fly in the right seat a couple of days out of the month is NOT hard work. The planes can take off and land by themselves, and most of the navigation is done by the flight computer. The pilots are simply redundant and are a vestige that remains only due to the fact that the public needs to see a human in the flight deck.

That said, I DO feel sorry for the schmucks that are flying the RJ's and getting paid peanuts. That, no doubt, is the other end of the spectrum...and it sucks. They will, however, have their day.

I have zero compassion for the average member of the APA, etc. They're the whiniest bunch of prima donnas I've every encountered.

They're bus drivers, but you think some of them should be paid more? You lack consistency. Among other things.

Ahhh...nothing like a pilot/union/airline bashing Fark thread to bring out the know-it-alls who know nothing about driving airplanes for a living, let alone 121 operations.

Kudos to the Allied Pilots Association for demanding somebody in Dallas be held accountable for this mess they've been put into.

And NO, airliners can't take off by themselves, and very few are able to land themselves...and the ones that can only do so at major airports.

/former RJ pilot
//current Citation pilot
///better pay, better QOL, 2/3 the true airspeed

Think of the bright side. They weren't burning gas and going out of business.

They've put that off for a few more days.

Inflatable Rhetoric: That's true of every flight, unless you're killed.

Thats also true of every taxi driver. And everyone who builds cars, or trains, or planes. And everyone that machines screws and nuts and bolts. And everyone who works at an aluminum plant. shiat, just about everyone involved in any part of the transportation chain can technically be called a hero for all the lives they saved. Or we can all realize that doing your job satisfactorily doesn't make you a hero, no matter what that job is.

Fark all the arlines:
Terrorists.
Overzealous security rules.
Lousy food/no food.
Late flights/no flights.
Lost luggage.
Delays.
Cramped seats, often next to fat slob.
Telephoning them is useless.

I stick with driving or the bus.

Lusiphur: Inflatable Rhetoric: That's true of every flight, unless you're killed.

Thats also true of every taxi driver. And everyone who builds cars, or trains, or planes. And everyone that machines screws and nuts and bolts. And everyone who works at an aluminum plant. shiat, just about everyone involved in any part of the transportation chain can technically be called a hero for all the lives they saved. Or we can all realize that doing your job satisfactorily doesn't make you a hero, no matter what that job is.

We don't disagree.

Lusiphur: Inflatable Rhetoric: That's true of every flight, unless you're killed.

Thats also true of every taxi driver. And everyone who builds cars, or trains, or planes. And everyone that machines screws and nuts and bolts. And everyone who works at an aluminum plant. shiat, just about everyone involved in any part of the transportation chain can technically be called a hero for all the lives they saved. Or we can all realize that doing your job satisfactorily doesn't make you a hero, no matter what that job is.

Some of them didn't gave god the credit, but not the blame.

The Devil's Workshop: Seriously, look at the suits cuz this steaming pile came directly from their unwillingness to look past the bonuses they get for cutting overtime. Your safety is not their job 1. They typically believe the fleet is "over maintained." Think about that next time you get on an AA plane. As for me, I swore off ever flying their crap ass airline years ago.

That's the heart of the problem, the parasites in management care primarily about getting their bonuses, and everything else can just fark off.

My brother flies for American, and neither he or I are getting a kick out the possibility that the company could go belly up thanks to all the mismanagement.

/look for communism to make a comeback if the executive class doesn't check itself
//hates commies, hates extreme capitalists

Rich Lavoy is one of the BIGGEST asshats. He keeps screwing the pilots over and blaming it on the airlines. He refused to accept big bonuses from the airlines. Now the execs are getting these big bonuses and he is saying that isn't fair. The same bonuses were offered to the pilots. What a dumba$$ he didn't think pilots deserved bonuses.