Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Yeah, the hell with those people who are rioting for peace and independence from the country that forcefully took them over.

wildcardjack: Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Damn! Beaten in the boobies.

GAT_00: Yeah, the hell with those people who are rioting for peace and independence from the country that forcefully took them over.

Don't worry, i'm sure that Bush - being the defender of liberty and justice for all kinda guy that he is - will stand up to those Chinese oppressors of the masses!

Tibet is just plain boned, and there's not a damn thing anybody can do about it

.

I wonder when the American Armed forces will invade in the name of freedom and democracy. Oh wait, there's no oil there and China is a huge trading partner with the US.

So China is sort of like a Mexico without the tequila.

wildcardjack: Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Bwahahaha.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Tibet is just plain boned, and there's not a damn thing anybody can do about it

.

that ^

Weaver95 2008-04-12 01:45:24 PM

Don't worry, i'm sure that Bush - being the defender of liberty and justice for all kinda guy that he is - will stand up to those Chinese oppressors of the masses!

People began bellowing about freeing Tibet in the 1950s. I haven't seen any administration, Republican or Democrat, doing anything substantive about it in the ensuing 50 years. Just put another bumper sticker on your car and feel like you've done something.

What can we do about it? Serious question.

wildcardjack: Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Here in America, that translates to "Stop resisting! Stop resisting!"

China owns the U.S. anyway so there literally is nothing we can do about it. G.W.B. would have to check with Wal-Mart and ask Hu Jintao for permission before even saying the name 'Tibet', let alone putting any pressure on.

You know who else was an oppressor claiming to be oppressed?

Lumoclear:
So China is sort of like a Mexico without the tequila.

The lingo is more difficult. No pot and no donkey shows.

Considering Tibetan protestors were the ones killing people, rioting, and destroying property to begin with, long before the Chinese army stepped in, yeah I'd say they have a point.

http://www.anti-cnn.com/

Rodney King unavailable for comment

Lumoclear: I wonder when the American Armed forces will invade in the name of freedom and democracy. Oh wait, there's no oil there and China is a huge trading partner with the US.

So China is sort of like a Mexico without the tequilaNUKES.

What a silly thing for the Chinese government to do. Contrary to what most Westerners read, things have been changing, slowly but surely, for the better since Tiananmen Square. The economy is booming and an educated bourgeoisie class is emerging in the populace. I think the key to a fundamental change in Chinese politics would be through empowering the middle class (not through sanctions, protesting or nukes)... a trend that has been picking up along with their economic growth.

However, the arrogance of the communist party has not diminished through time, unlike the severity of their actions. Is it really hard for the gov to admit what had transpired in the 50's and the Cultural Revolution? It's not like they have anything to lose in this present day; in fact, they can shed some of that mean-old-authoritarian stereotype by doing so. Hell, it's sort of hypocritical to ask other governments such as Japan to publicly admit their atrocities while not doing so yourself.

Ghastly: wildcardjack: Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Damn! Beaten in the boobies.

That DOES hurt.

Interesting related article...

The Masai warriors' guide to England (new window)

and the warriors in action...

mew666666:
However, the arrogance of the communist party has not diminished through time, unlike the severity of their actions. Is it really hard for the gov to admit what had transpired in the 50's and the Cultural Revolution? It's not like they have anything to lose in this present day; in fact, they can shed some of that mean-old-authoritarian stereotype by doing so. Hell, it's sort of hypocritical to ask other governments such as Japan to publicly admit their atrocities while not doing so yourself.

Considering Japan hasn't done much apologising, and instead is reverting back to nationalism, discussing arming with nukes, changing the constitution, whitewashing the history textbooks, I don't think China is going to have any problems with her populace by continuing to make Japan the bogeyman.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Tibet is just plain boned, and there's not a damn thing anybody can do about it

.

The same thing was said of apartheid-era South Africa. Turns out that concerted and determined international pressure got things to change in that country for the better.

proteal: Considering Tibetan protestors were the ones killing people, rioting, and destroying property to begin with, long before the Chinese army stepped in, yeah I'd say they have a point.

You can't be serious.

gund: mew666666:
However, the arrogance of the communist party has not diminished through time, unlike the severity of their actions. Is it really hard for the gov to admit what had transpired in the 50's and the Cultural Revolution? It's not like they have anything to lose in this present day; in fact, they can shed some of that mean-old-authoritarian stereotype by doing so. Hell, it's sort of hypocritical to ask other governments such as Japan to publicly admit their atrocities while not doing so yourself.

Considering Japan hasn't done much apologising, and instead is reverting back to nationalism, discussing arming with nukes, changing the constitution, whitewashing the history textbooks, I don't think China is going to have any problems with her populace by continuing to make Japan the bogeyman.

I'm not saying either nation should apologize out of true moral empathy or anything concrete. Just a simply politically-correct statement that reeks of pretentious compassion and buzzwords should be enough. Heck, just look at the politics here and the bull spewing out of some people's mouths. China needs to smarten up and learn how Western media works... they have to offer completely banal so that it cannot be spun or taken out of context.

Judging how this most recent turn of events was sparked by Pro-Tibetan crowds acting first, China should have had no trouble containing the media by offering the truth. Instead, they closed/ censored the province for days and came out with their usual arrogant, propaganda-esque tone afterwards. I mean who the fark blames everything on the Dalai Llama? Even if it were true on some levels, it's something any politically-savy PR person would never say.

I_Love_Cheesecake:
You can't be serious.

His statement, albeit ambiguously worded, is true. These most recent events happened due to riots against the Han population in the Tibetian/ Sichuan provinces. People died, shops were burned, etc etc. Of course, this was made pretty fuzzy by the government prohibiting foreign journalists from entering immediate follow the events. However, eye-witness accounts and independent reports confirm this.

Doesn't change the fact of what happened in Tibet 50 years ago, but in the present scheme of things... Han did not shoot first.

Thank you limeybrit9. I know some Masai in Eluai, maybe I taught these guys English (before my bad reaction to my anti-malaria medication kicked in and I had to be sent home, that is).

From Limey's article: ""You cannot rely on the sun to tell the time accurately and will have to rely on clocks and watches. The sun will rise and set at different times."

Snerk. Yeah, or they could just check the time on their cell phones.

mew666666: I_Love_Cheesecake:
You can't be serious.

His statement, albeit ambiguously worded, is true. These most recent events happened due to riots against the Han population in the Tibetian/ Sichuan provinces. People died, shops were burned, etc etc. Of course, this was made pretty fuzzy by the government prohibiting foreign journalists from entering immediate follow the events. However, eye-witness accounts and independent reports confirm this.

Doesn't change the fact of what happened in Tibet 50 years ago, but in the present scheme of things... Han did not shoot first.

Fine. So, apparently, the Han thugs did not shoot first. For the million other times, however, they have. The Tibetans were simply responding to over five decades of oppression and cultural genocide. I don't blame then one bit for rising up and protesting. And, given the fact that most of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about Tibet, their stance is all the more courageous.

Given the fact that China owns the USA, what can the USA government do? If the USA government did anything, all China has to do is stop buying USA T-bills for a month then the USA economy will collapse. The people in the USA should be on their hands and knees kissing Hu Jintao's feet. It is ironic that a communist country controls the USA capitalist empire. Funny!!! :-)

BTW: Why does the USA have a embargo against one communist country, Cuba, and not another communist country, China?

TigerStar: BTW: Why does the USA have a embargo against one communist country, Cuba, and not another communist country, China?

With Cuba, it's personal. The government can't stand the fact that Castro has outlived a series of US presidents. (And, to a lesser extent, there's still a vocal, influential Cuban-American minority in Florida.) With China, which has perhaps the world's worst human rights record, it's because money trumps everything.

I guess you have to have a probelm
If you want to mend a contraption
First you cause a train wreck
Then they put me in traction
Well, first came an action
And then a reaction
But you can't switch 'em 'round
For their own satisfaction
Well you burnt my house down
And got mad at my reaction

Well in every complicated situation
Of a human relation
Makin' sense of it all
Takes a whole lotta concentration
Well you can't blame a baby
For her pregnant ma
And if there's one of these
Unavoidable laws

It's that you just can't take the effect
And make it the cause

Well you can't take the effect
And make it the cause
I didn't rob a bank
Because you made up the law
Blame me for robbing Peter
But don't you blame Paul
Can't take the effect
And make it the cause

I ain't the reason that you gave me
No reason to return your call
You built a house of cards
And got shocked when you saw them fall
Well I ain't saying I'm innocent
In fact the reverse
But if your headed to the grave
You don't blame the hearse
You're like a little girl yelling at her brother
'Cause you lost his ball

Well you keep blaming me for what you did
But that ain't all
The way you clean up a wreck
Is enough to give one pause
Well, you seem to forget just how this all started
I'm reacting to you
Because you left me broken hearted
See you just take the effect
And make it the cause

Well you can't take the effect
And make it the cause
I didn't rob a bank
Because you made up the law
Blame me for robbing Peter
But don't you blame Paul
Can't take the effect
And make it the cause

I_Love_Cheesecake:
Fine. So, apparently, the Han thugs did not shoot first. For the million other times, however, they have. The Tibetans were simply responding to over five decades of oppression and cultural genocide. I don't blame then one bit for rising up and protesting. And, given the fact that most of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about Tibet, their stance is all the more courageous.

Biggest flaw in that way of thinking, along with those of many protesters is that Chinese government != Chinese populace. The Tibetan rioters targeted people of Han ethnicity... indiscriminately killed individuals and burned down Han-owned edifices.

Yes, no one here is denying that very same atrocities have happened from the gunpoint of the Chinese government. But is it fair to target an entire ethnicity who happens to be governed by such? Why not blow up some government buildings or attack the police/ military? In the view of many Chinese and even Chinese Americans, what precedent does this set? Commit acts of vandalism or murder to gain the favor of international opinion? I *really* hate to pull out the 9/11 card... but it's a reasonable conceptual (but not numerical) analogy.

I thought Buddhism was always about stopping the propagation of unskillful karma. There are other, non-violent ways (see: Dalai Lama) to go about this.

China defends its Tibet crackdown by employing the ages-old practice of blaming it on the guys who were getting the snot beat out of them

So wait... they're blaming the Han Chinese and muslims?

I_Love_Cheesecake: ...With China, which has perhaps the world's worst human rights record...

You know, I've seen this statement tossed around and taken for granted so many times, but I've never actually seen evidence that this is actually true. Anyone care to back it up?

China is that biatch kid who thinks he's tough until he gets into a real fight. Let's see how East stacks up vs West.

proteal:Considering Tibetan protestors were the ones killing people, rioting, and destroying property to begin with, long before the Chinese army stepped in, yeah I'd say they have a point.

Link (new window)

How do you say "tinfoil hat" in Mandarin?

mew666666:
I mean who the fark blames everything on the Dalai Llama?

This. Their continued references to "the Dalai clique" and other ridiculous nonsense play as total bullsh*t almost everywhere outside China... except to brainwashed retard Chinese ex-pats who would rather believe their oppressive dictators across the ocean than engage their brains for a god damn second even though they now have access to uncensored information. You know who you are.

mew666666: Yes, no one here is denying that very same atrocities have happened from the gunpoint of the Chinese government. But is it fair to target an entire ethnicity who happens to be governed by such? Why not blow up some government buildings or attack the police/ military? In the view of many Chinese and even Chinese Americans, what precedent does this set? Commit acts of vandalism or murder to gain the favor of international opinion? I *really* hate to pull out the 9/11 card... but it's a reasonable conceptual (but not numerical) analogy.

The rioting and beatings etc. were NOT RIGHT. They were basically race riots. But after decades of the Tibetans having their culture trampled, their women forcibly sterilized, their temples destroyed, and their voices silenced, what does anybody expect will happen? A violent faction was bound to emerge. China's assertions that the violence is centrally-coordinated by the Dalai Lama and his followers would be laughable if they weren't so frighteningly intended to legitimize the genocide.

You want to annoy those brainwashed morons?
Tell them that you support the REAL China, Taiwan, not the brainwashed communist idiots that have taken over the mainland.

Taiwan is the real China, the mainland is just a bunch of fascist wanna-bes.

Go Tibet, go Taiwan.

I_Love_Cheesecake: proteal: Considering Tibetan protestors were the ones killing people, rioting, and destroying property to begin with, long before the Chinese army stepped in, yeah I'd say they have a point.

You can't be serious.

I've heard this argument before.

Of course it kind of ignores over 50-years of systematic abuse by China prior to the recent riots.

That said, if anyone seriously expects any nation or nations to do what it will take to free Tibet, they're on crack. Tibet's only hope is that th Chinese people themselves overthrow the government, because nobody is going to do anything from the outside. Th chance to do that ended a long time ago.

No Such Agency:
This. Their continued references to "the Dalai clique" and other ridiculous nonsense play as total bullsh*t almost everywhere outside China... except to brainwashed retard Chinese ex-pats who would rather believe their oppressive dictators across the ocean than engage their brains for a god damn second even though they now have access to uncensored information. You know who you are.

And so the end result is a polarization between two cultures. The defensiveness and mistrust many Chinese and Chinese Americans have towards Western media and ideology has just gotten worse. They (mis)construe these some of these protests as personal insults to their judgment and way of life. After all, there exists a tremendous pride in having one's motherland hosting the Olympics; individual hard work and investments have been spent and many have vested a personal component towards it.

Unfortunately, this polarization pushes some towards embracing the Chinese government and their hilarious PR kool-aid.

I don't think it's as extreme as you say it is as brainwashing. To me, it's just a damn shame of two cultures with opposite values and interests colliding. What's the biggest disappointment is that it will be through the Chinese people that their government will change and thus making the eventual independence of Tibet possible. However, these past events make it counterproductive to that goal.

landsnark1: proteal:Considering Tibetan protestors were the ones killing people, rioting, and destroying property to begin with, long before the Chinese army stepped in, yeah I'd say they have a point.

Link (new window)

How do you say "tinfoil hat" in Mandarin?

One thing I love that the defenders of China keep ignoring is that China continued to show footage from the first day the army stepped in as if it was from the day they were airing it. I wonder what was on the video shot from day 2 forward. I bet it wasn't quite the same.

Aren't the "genius teen girls" using the same defense?

Tibet, Tibet.
Tibet, Tibet.
Tibet, Tibet.

LavenderWolf: ChinaUSA is that biatch kid who thinks he's tough until he gets into a real fight. Let's see how East stacks up vs West.

FTFY

I think it is really arrogant and self-righteous of people or governments to tell China (or other governments for that matter) how they should do things. Who do they think they are? Who died and made them king of the world? The government of China will do things their way. It is their country. They can do with it what they want. If people have a problem with this, they can just kiss China's ass. This is how I feel.

TigerStar

It isn't their country. Countries belong to the people, not the government. And the people of Tibet are part of the country of China, so China is partly their country. Except the government doesn't treat it that way, by outlawing their religion and shooting them in the streets.

When a government is no longer acting in line with its obligation to its people, its people have a right to speak up, as the Tibetans are trying to do. And when a country violates that further right, suppresses dissent, and shoots people in the streets, all people who do have a voice and who understand how important it is for that voice to be respected and honored owe it to those people to speak up.

It isn't really the conquest of Tibet here that's really the problem. At this point, that's kind of a settled issue. The problem is the lengths the Chinese government has gone to to suppress the protestors and censor opposing viewpoints. If they just let the Tibetans practice their religion and protest when they wanted to, nobody would care.

From TFA: The head of the IOC, Jacques Rogge, even spoke of a "crisis".

But he said neither the athletes nor the public wanted a boycott of the Olympics and said it was "sad" that the torch relay had been disrupted by protests.

"The torch does not belong to Beijing or China. It is the torch of humanity," he told the BBC.



Damn, I never looked at it that way. What a glorious thing it is. I am in such awe--- I can speak no more.....

/tears swell in my eyes

How the hell are a bunch of filthy anti-war protesters gonna free tibet anyway?
You hate guns, and yer not going to buy anything because if you had jobs you wouldn't be at a protest

Ms.Maus: Ghastly: wildcardjack: Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself. Quit hitting yourself.

Damn! Beaten in the boobies.

That DOES hurt.

Hurts so gooooooood.

/now call me an impudent whore.

TigerStar: I think it is really arrogant and self-righteous of people or governments to tell China (or other governments for that matter) how they should do things. Who do they think they are? Who died and made them king of the world? The government of China will do things their way. It is their country. They can do with it what they want. If people have a problem with this, they can just kiss China's ass. This is how I feel.

THIS.

Montreal. July 24, 1967. Charles De Gaul at Expo 67...sticking his big honkin' nose into Canada's business.




"Vive le Québec libre!"

Think about it.

TigerStar: It is their country. They can do with it what they want. If people have a problem with this, they can just kiss China's ass. This is how I feel.

You fail, because you're putting the rights of the state - an utterly artificial construct in this case - above the rights of the individual. Your words can be used to justify every internal atrocity as a "private" matter. Now I myself am no interventionist advocate, but you are showing a complete lack of nuance here. When autocratic states commit mass-oppression or mass murder, at some point it becomes humanity's responsibility - and humanity's collective guilt. Take the analogy: if you know that your neighbor is, say, molesting his children or brutally beating his wife, then you have a responsibility to call authorities and rectify the situation. Because if you do nothing, the injustice continues.