If this comes down to a floor vote at the convention I am going to personally buy Dean a copy of Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail and tell him to at least make original mistakes

Well, since it's green, let's get this out of the way..

YEEEEAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!

/carry on

Here's my suggestion. You take the current total needed for the nomination (2,023½ or a simple majority), subtract Fla & Michigan (368, of which 55 are super delegates) and see if either Hillary or Obama make the new, lower goal of 1665½.

/sorry Mich & Fla Dems - next time play by your party's rules
//you can get even in Nov if you're really upset

Here's what Obama should do. If, after Penn, NC, and IN, the race is basically the same as it is right now, just give her what she wants. Let them seat MI and FL as is. He won't need them, and she'll have nothing to argue about. Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

DamnYankees: Here's what Obama should do. If, after Penn, NC, and IN, the race is basically the same as it is right now, just give her what she wants. Let them seat MI and FL as is. He won't need them, and she'll have nothing to argue about. Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

Good call.

DamnYankees: Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

Will it be white smoke, or black smoke?

damageddude: 2,023½

That number is already reduced to take into account MI and FL not counting, IIRC. If MI and FL are added to the mix, the magic number becomes 22-something.

GaryPDX: DamnYankees: Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

Will it be white smoke, or black smoke?

Whichever color, no doubt it will ascend directly to heaven, untouched by the wind and weather.

GaryPDX: DamnYankees: Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

Will it be white smoke, or black smoke?

Pink smoke of course, and it will smell like sulfur.

There's a fight brewing in Oregon. The Governor, Kulongoski (D-SuperDelegate) has already went public he's going to vote for Hilldawg. There was a firestorm in the Oregonian today. He's gonna do it regardless of what Oregon voters do.

Little inside stuff in Oregon for your fodder.

Goddammit Howard Dean! I'm gonna go write a letter. Rat bastard.

I sent him a message over the intertube.

You can too. (new window)

GaryPDX: There was a firestorm in the Oregonian today.

Do you have a link to that discussion? I always enjoy reading a good firestorm.

DamnYankees: Here's what Obama should do. If, after Penn, NC, and IN, the race is basically the same as it is right now, just give her what she wants. Let them seat MI and FL as is. He won't need them, and she'll have nothing to argue about. Her main cause celebre will go up in a poof of smoke.

This. Exactly this. She is imploding.

/I love you, man.

dgc360: GaryPDX: There was a firestorm in the Oregonian today.

Do you have a link to that discussion? I always enjoy reading a good firestorm.

Here ya go, todays "Letters" by readers, Editorial section. (new window).

dgc360: I always enjoy reading a good firestorm.

This Should Amuse You (new window)



\Wait ... not what you meant?

GaryPDX: Here ya go, todays "Letters" by readers, Editorial section. (new window).

Thanks!

kmmontandon: \Wait ... not what you meant?
well, at least you didn't link to pictures of Vietnam.

dgc360: GaryPDX: Here ya go, todays "Letters" by readers, Editorial section. (new window).

Thanks!

I'm pretty out numbered here in Portland not being a Democrat. The mood here is pretty sensitive about back room deals. Kulongoski and his henchmen in Salem are in the bag for the Hillabeast. The voters, not so much.

On May 20th (Our Primary), I think I'll just break out the lawn chairs and watch the fireworks.

Tastes Like Chicken: Goddammit Howard Dean!

Well, now, that's no way to speak to the Vice President!

mrCasual: Tastes Like Chicken: Goddammit Howard Dean!

Well, now, that's no way to speak to the Vice President!

SCARY.

Where the fark did "Give 'Em Hell!" Howard go, and how can we return this equivocating biatch to sender?

/preferred my original ending of "where's my spineless backtracker tag?" for the headline

Hillary is done no matter what, so this is Dean and the DNC trying to make nice with Michigan voters again for the general election.

Eh, I'm pissed and depressed that Dean is giving some ground on this issue... but, from his POV, he's between a rock and a hard place here. The issue isn't Clinton/Obama, it's a matter of giving face to the MI Democrats while trying to maintain some semblance of order.

As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

Crazy Howard rants about another irrelevant issue.

barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

The DNC is a private organization. They are therefor well within their rights to say "none of your votes count, we're nominating kermit the frog"

I Said: The DNC is a private organization. They are therefor well within their rights to say "none of your votes count, we're nominating kermit the frog"

Or Al Gore, as gets greenlit once per week with a Manbearpig or "I invented the internet" reference.

barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

Like I Said said, at this point nobody is making any votes for somebody to hold public office, it's simply the process by which the individual parties determine their nominees. The parties can have whatever process they want to determine who their nominee is.

Out of curiosity, how is it that party nominees are determined in your country of origin (assuming they have a similar electoral process)?

I hope Mr. Dean changes the rules midway through the game.
This is how the DNC gets things done, in an underhanded fashion.

barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

Michigan and Florida get to vote for president, no problem, that's national law... but that's not until November.

Party rules are not national laws, however, and the states of Michigan and Florida opted to have primaries that did not comply with the rules of the Democratic Party.

So the controversy is over whether those states have a voice in who the Democrats will put on the ballot in November - in any case, their ballots will count in November.

(And I'm gonna smack the first silly son-of-a-biatch that wants to talk about hanging chads. I'm trying to make this all look respectable in front of company, OK?)

And doing it last, apparently.

I Said: Hillary is done no matter what, so this is Dean and the DNC trying to make nice with Michigan voters again for the general election.

That's my theory. If they could manage a (closed) revote, good, or if they just split the delegates 50-50, well it's less good but it gives some semblence of participation and Hillary looks like even more of a biatch when she whines about how fairness sucks. But even if Hillary gets all those delegates she's still behind. Dean's just keeping the channels open, if Obama's garunteed the win the democratic party realizes how important their voices being heard are, so make sure you use them again in November.

I don't think he's a big enough wimp to cave to Hillary unless it's just to stick it to her how MUCH she is behind. But I've overestimated that party before.

/gObama!

barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.



Oh wait, misread it..



Which one are you?

GaryPDX: There's a fight brewing in Oregon. The Governor, Kulongoski (D-SuperDelegate) has already went public he's going to vote for Hilldawg. There was a firestorm in the Oregonian today. He's gonna do it regardless of what Oregon voters do.

Little inside stuff in Oregon for your fodder.

I'm an Oregonian myself and can safely claim that most of the people in this state are none too fond of the man overall. His last electoral victory was simply a choice of lesser evil (his opponent being a hardline fundie with some rather batsh-- ideas).

I Said: barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

The DNC is a private organization. They are therefor well within their rights to say "none of your votes count, we're nominating kermit the frog"

You're thinking of the Green Party.

Donald_McRonald: You're thinking of the Green Party.

Kermit would get more votes in name recognition alone then any other Green Party candidate

TheXRayStyle: at this point nobody is making any votes for somebody to hold public office, it's simply the process by which the individual parties determine their nominees.

Of course, my error.

Out of curiosity, how is it that party nominees are determined in your country of origin (assuming they have a similar electoral process)?

The parties hold leadership conventions.

At election time, the leader of the party winning the most ridings (electoral districts) becomes Prime Minister. There is no direct vote for highest office.

barefoot in the head: As a furriner, I'd like to ask how it can be constitutionally permissible for anyone to be disenfranchised for any reason.

For any number of reasons... or, as we say in the law business, "It depends."

GaryPDX: There's a fight brewing in Oregon. The Governor, Kulongoski (D-SuperDelegate) has already went public he's going to vote for Hilldawg. There was a firestorm in the Oregonian today. He's gonna do it regardless of what Oregon voters do.

Little inside stuff in Oregon for your fodder.

I guess I have a few letters to write.

Damn it, Kulongoski, I like you! Don't do this shiat to me!

Notice to Michigan:

Jennifer Granholm
John Engler
Debbie Stabenow
Kwame Kilpatrick
Spence Abraham
Dick DeVos*

Sorry, but that's just way too much FAIL to have been produced by a single state. You lose your right to representation just for that. Sorry, but Carl Levin alone can't restore your reputation.

Longtime Lurker: Notice to Michigan:

Jennifer Granholm
John Engler
Debbie Stabenow
Kwame Kilpatrick
Spence Abraham
Dick DeVos*

Sorry, but that's just way too much FAIL to have been produced by a single state. You lose your right to representation just for that. Sorry, but Carl Levin alone can't restore your reputation.

You forgot the Romneys.

/cringe
//Most mich representatives are epic fail

I thought about this the other day. Since Hillary was the only one on the ballot in Michigan and the only one that traveled to Florida the day before the primary she should get those delegates. The rest go to Obama. That would give her 55% of the Michigan delegates and 49% of the Florida delegates. Obama would then get 45% of Michigan and 51% of Florida. It will allow the Dems to seat these delegates and I think Obama could live with this. Hillary would get the delegates she actually won. Win, win.

/If someone at the Obama Campaign or the DNC is hiring you can contact me at d­as­w­a­nkon­elia­mgc­o­m
//I would accept a job at Center for American Progress too

Let those votes count something like, oh, at some nice compromise... 3/5's or so should do the trick.

They have a committee to decide such matters. Let the committee's decision be the rule of the party, Let their sense of ethics carry the day, not peer pressure.
Gov. Dean....I loved you as a candidate, but STFU, and let the due process handle the matter.

You guys are making a critical mistake assuming Obama is going to win the majority of the remaining contests.

The racist "rust belt", baby-boomer population is probably not going to go for Obama. Watch and see what happens in Pennsylvania. He has had 6-weeks to drill her, sniper comment and tons of more money to spend. If he walks away with a double-digit loss, Kentucky, West Virginia and Indiana are going to roll hard against him. And he wil have no way possible to win the popular vote with Florida and Michigan included in the count. And, as far as I can tell with the rest of the "rust belt" (ie: Ohio), there is no reason to assume this isn't going to happen. If she can win the "popular vote" with Florida/Michigan seated, she is going to pitch a fit. If she can win the "popular vote" with only Florida seated, she is going to pitch a larger fit. If she can win the "popular vote" without Florida and Michigan, she is going to pitch the biggest fit imaginable. All three scenarios are in play.

One word: Clusterfark

Remove all Republicans: DaSwankOne: I thought about this the other day. Since Hillary was the only one on the ballot in Michigan and the only one that traveled to Florida the day before the primary she should get those delegates. The rest go to Obama. That would give her 55% of the Michigan delegates and 49% of the Florida delegates. Obama would then get 45% of Michigan and 51% of Florida. It will allow the Dems to seat these delegates and I think Obama could live with this. Hillary would get the delegates she actually won. Win, win.

She won both. She should get all the delegates in states she won (states that matter) and get the proportion of delegates in states she didn't (states that don't matter). Under the logic, she would easily have beaten Obama and thus would be the legitimate nominee.

Get your medication, fast. Look you're drooling all over the carpet now.

Remove all Republicans: She won both. She should get all the delegates in states she won (states that matter) and get the proportion of delegates in states she didn't (states that don't matter). Under the logic, she would easily have beaten Obama and thus would be the legitimate nominee.

Did you even read my post or are you replying to someone else? Oh I remember that thread the other day. If you consider that Obama really won Texas and Nevada, He would actually have a larger delegate lead than he currently does. That was a retarded article.