I was wondering how long it would take this to show up on Fark.

That said, Dalrymple is probably the most prolific writer on the subcontinent today and actually lives there 10 months a year. At least he doesn't researching his articles while sitting in his hotel room at the Islamabad Serena.

But we're going to still get involved because we're the Big Bad United States, so STFU, submitter, you America hater, you.

Fark yeah!

whidbey: But we're going to still get involved because we're the Big Bad United States, so STFU, submitter, you America hater, you.

Fark yeah!

Go team Jesus! Yea!

/Seriously though, we are going to get involved.

That said, it's still a pisshole of a country with a crazy unstable leader, nuclear weapons, divided religious/political factions, and a habit of fighting with either India, China, Afghanistan or whoever else irks the ruling party at that particular moment.

well, that's a relief!

Dalrymple is a decent scholar. The bastard also sells lots of books.

/not jealous or anything...

The working theory is if economic optimism stimulates the economy then being optimistic about the state of Pakistan's government will keep it from sucking, collapsing, killing people.. that sort of thing.

We're probably only going to get involved if Obama becomes president though. Bush is into the whole "allying with dictatorial assholes to fight democratically elected assholes" thing, Hillary's got the exact same interests as Bush, and McCain's apparently senile enough to have fallen for the party line. Obama's going on about how that's where Osama is, how it's a haven for terrorism, how they're only pretending to be our ally while stabbing us in the back, basically forcing me to get whiplash from agreeing so forcefully with him.

Of course if we went into Pakistan it'd probably involve more targeted strikes and diplomatic pressure than the occupation we've got going on in Iraq. Again, only if Obama wins.

I fail for posting before reading the article, something no other farker has ever been foolish enough to do.

I have seen the error of my ways.

Gyrfalcon: That said, it's still a pisshole of a country with a crazy unstable leader, nuclear weapons, divided religious/political factions, and a habit of fighting with either India, China, Afghanistan or whoever else irks the ruling party at that particular moment.

FIXED

China and Pakistan are pretty strong allies. Pakistan was the one who brokered Nixon's visit. Kissinger flew out in a Pakistani military plane to go to Beijing beforehand.

/The More You Know

And nukes.

And now, as a public service to those of our viewers who have difficulty with their hearing, I will repeat the top story of the day, aided by the Headmaster of the New York School for the Hard of Hearing, Garrett Morris.

/Not obscure.
//My point shouldn't be, either.

alybaba:
China and Pakistan are pretty strong allies. Pakistan was the one who brokered Nixon's visit. Kissinger flew out in a Pakistani military plane to go to Beijing beforehand.

/The More You Know

Good to know, but what's true then isn't necessarily true now. As far as I know, China is pretty displeased with both sides in their conflict, as they don't want nukes to start flying.

alybaba: Gyrfalcon: That said, it's still a pisshole of a country with a crazy unstable leader, nuclear weapons, divided religious/political factions, and a habit of fighting with either India, China, Afghanistan or whoever else irks the ruling party at that particular moment.

FIXED

China and Pakistan are pretty strong allies. Pakistan was the one who brokered Nixon's visit. Kissinger flew out in a Pakistani military plane to go to Beijing beforehand.

/The More You Know

Not only that, but things like all weather highways that would allow rapid troop deployment into Pakistan have been quietly built up over the years. The skirmishing between India and Pakistan revealed that Pakistan simply cannot sustain the lightning fast counterattack it would require to turn back an Indian offensive push.

China on the other hand, could comfortably lob a few hundred thousand well trained and armed troops into the battlefield, as well as provide complete air dominance until the USA sent in carrier groups.

And if America was forced to deploy carrier groups in battle against China, well... those diesel/electric subs everyone like to knock would sneak up and sink most of the American naval forces in the area.

Would you like to play again?

Bored Horde:
And if America was forced to deploy carrier groups in battle against China, well... those diesel/electric subs everyone like to knock would sneak up and sink most of the American naval forces in the area.

Would you like to play again?

You seem to have very low regard for our Naval forces. You can't begin to imagine the concentration of power present in a Carrier Battle Group. Our global military dominance is almost entirely due to the presence of these awesome juggernauts. They are vulnerable, yes, but not from submarines. Their biggest weakness is to a massive missile strike.

Also, you discount the Indian armed forces. They are a very effective counterbalance to the PLA. India fields the most uniformly advanced army in the region (not taking Russia into account), and their pilots are quite good. Perhaps not Thunderbird material, but still pretty close. In joint exercises with American carrier pilots, they give them a run for their money, taking down F-16s with (relative)ease.

Honestly, what do you expect from a "country" that was fabricated out of thin air? Jinnah and his other Islamic thugs never wanted to question the true origins of their so-called Islamic heritage which would form the identity for their new country, and we now have today the absolute mess which was present during the concept of partitioning the Indian subcontinent - that is, an identity crisis, confusion, and self-loathing of the pre-islamic history of Pakistan and Bangladesh by the muslim majority of those countries.

The whole idea of partitioning the Indian subcontinent was to accommodate the millions of Mohammedans who shunned the idea of secularism and pluralism (which are essential tenants of the dharmic faiths of Hinduism and Buddhism). They rejected this then, as they do now, as prescribed by their wonderfully regressive and medieval Qur'an, and they are paying for it now as civil unrest between shias and sunnis and the different ethnic groups continues to grow, as it does across much of the muslim world. And not only that, but add to the fact that Pakistan is probably the foremost breeding ground for Islamic terrorism and extremism against India (Kashmir) and the West, and you're presented with a situation full of FAIL - *especially* for them, since this same terrorism is starting to roost at home.

What gets me the most is that these morons desperately wanted partition to fulfill the dream of an Islamic homeland in the Subcontinent, and now in the Indian state of West Bengal, we see thousands of muslim bangladeshis (previously East Pakistan) clamoring to cross the border and live in India for a better quality of life - all the while shifting the demographics of these areas to what made the areas they emigrated from the shiatholes they are (thanks again Islam!) One has to wonder just how long it will take for West Bengal to turn into another Islamic Paradise based on the rate that these cretins breed (multiple wives, gazillion children, you know the drill).

Lastly, "Urdu" has got to be one of the most laughable concepts/languages ever conceived. Phonetically it belongs to the ancient Indo-European Sanskrit family - it is virtually indistinguishable from Hindi to the ear - but since the script has been arabicized to reflect Islam, it's just another blatant reminder of the Arab overlords of the subcontinental muslims, just as with most other non-arab muslims who have forsaken their cultural languages and heritage in lieu of Arab culture (i'm looking at you Indonesia/Malaysia).

After reading two sentences from this article, I came to the conclusion that Dalrymple's diction is incredibly disconcerted.

After reading the Boobies of this thread, I could say the same for his fan-base.

alybaba: I was wondering how long it would take this to show up on Fark.

That said, Dalrymple is probably the most prolific writer on the subcontinent today and actually lives there 10 months a year. At least he doesn't researching his articles while sitting in his hotel room at the Islamabad Serena.


/content is only as intriguing as it's delivery.

Sandwyrm: alybaba:
China and Pakistan are pretty strong allies. Pakistan was the one who brokered Nixon's visit. Kissinger flew out in a Pakistani military plane to go to Beijing beforehand.

/The More You Know

Good to know, but what's true then isn't necessarily true now. As far as I know, China is pretty displeased with both sides in their conflict, as they don't want nukes to start flying.

Oh, I never meant Pakistan was fighting China at present. I intended to imply they were crazy enough to take a shot at that behemoth across the mountains if whoever was the current leader was pissed/deranged enough to think it feasible. A lot of the border wars in that area consist of nothing but mortars being shot over Himalayan ridges anyway, with neither side having any idea if they're hitting human targets or not.

Raskolnikov's Angst:

Lastly, "Urdu" has got to be one of the most laughable concepts/languages ever conceived. Phonetically it belongs to the ancient Indo-European Sanskrit family - it is virtually indistinguishable from Hindi to the ear - but since the script has been arabicized to reflect Islam, it's just another blatant reminder of the Arab overlords of the subcontinental muslims, just as with most other non-arab muslims who have forsaken their cultural languages and heritage in lieu of Arab culture (i'm looking at you Indonesia/Malaysia).

That's funny, because it wasn't Arabized, it was Persianized if anything - the Mughals were never Arab, they were Persians. The Arabs haven't had a stronghold in India for quite a few centuries and most of Islam was spread by non-Arabs in India, particularly Persians. Please don't attempt to re-write history in favour of your worldview - the fundamentalist muslim Arabizers of Urdu do the same thing and I'm disgusted by it.

Hindustani was first written in the Persian script - the Devangari script being used for Hindustani only became prominent in the 20th century, and prior to Partition there was no real distinction between Urdu and Hindustani. On the other hand, I believe Punjabi in Pakistan should have been continued to be written in the Gurumukhi script and not Persianized due to "national identity". I am myself attempting to learn the Devangari/Nagari script to learn Gujrati, since that is my ancestral language and used throughout my family.

/Paki
//Kaafir
/// Could really care less about looking through subcontinental history as "Muslim invaders vs. Hindu natives"
////Get over it and stop living your life drenched through identity politics and trying to declare the two-nation theory a failure
//Yes India is a better country, stop comparing yourself to "failed states" to make yourself feel better

Raskolnikov's Angst: Jinnah and his other Islamic thugs

Ahan... you do realize that Islamists actually opposed the concept of partition, right? The Jamaat e Islami hated the idea and called Jinnah "kafir e azam" for his efforts. And as for Jinnah being an "Islamic thug"; he was actually one of the most secular, Westernized politicians among India's Muslims at the time.

/though personally, I think the Partition was a mistake, myself

I believe Jinnah had quite an appetite for ham sandwiches

Pakistan, it's the new Iraq.

in a kind of enemy of my enemy is my friend/you're my greatest enemy sort of way.

alybaba: I believe Jinnah had quite an appetite for ham sandwiches



Mmmmm... gin and ham sandwiches...