I was one of those who believed that we had to stay or there would be a bloodbath such as the one in Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos. Now, I just don't care. Bring our troops home. I don't give a rat's ass about how many Sunni ragheads kill Shiite ragheads. As long as they are killing each other, they aren't killing us. As for the oil, drill the Gulf of Mexico, drill Alaska. Stop kowtowing to these disgusting people and stop sending our money to them for a commodity that we have in abundance in North America. If the ragheads get too uppity in the future and try some 9//11 shiat again, that's what we have nukes for. I'm prepared to be flamed, but you know in your heart, I'm right.

JoeBagadonutz: but you know in your heart, I'm right.

Erm.

JoeBagadonutz: As for the oil, drill the Gulf of Mexico, drill Alaska.

Why use our oil when we can use theirs? When they run out of oil we can use our and tell them to go fark themselves.

/revenge is a dish best served cold.

AliceInWonderland: Why use our oil when we can use theirs?

Because they are hosing us on the price. Crude oil is one of the most common things on the planet, nearly every continent has it. Why let these cretins overcharge us when we have enough here to satisfy our demand. With newer technology for discovering, recovering, and refining oil, we are way stupid for paying 25 times the cost of bringing crude to market. Let those pedophile worshiping head cutters choke on the oil. They'll be begging us for food because they, like us have not become self sufficient. When we start charging them $110 a bushel for corn, we will have come full circle.

Face it, no matter what angle you look at it from, the war is a failure, and everyone that supported it is a motherfarking tool.

JoeBagadonutz: If the ragheads get too uppity in the future and try some 9//11 shiat again, that's what we have nukes for.

So if Saudis crash planes into buildings again, you'll nuke Iraq?

Yes, we understand subby and most responders: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.

JoeBagadonutz: I was one of those who believed that we had to stay or there would be a bloodbath such as the one in Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos. Now, I just don't care. Bring our troops home. I don't give a rat's ass about how many Sunni ragheads kill Shiite ragheads. As long as they are killing each other, they aren't killing us. As for the oil, drill the Gulf of Mexico, drill Alaska. Stop kowtowing to these disgusting people and stop sending our money to them for a commodity that we have in abundance in North America. If the ragheads get too uppity in the future and try some 9//11 shiat again, that's what we have nukes for. I'm prepared to be flamed, but you know in your heart, I'm right.

Sad to say this, but part of this librul tree-hugger thinks you make a few points.

Honestly, I'm prepared at this point to take up a semi-isolationist (note the operative word there is semi, you free trade loons) stance and accept that fact that the Muslim world seems to want to destroy itself. It's not our job to police the world, OR to protect Isreal (heading off Tastuma at the pass there).

We need to work on becoming semi-to-mostly energy independent and fostering better relations with the first world. Lets build a few consensuses here and there before we charge into a situation we know absolutely nothing about again.

Nukes, on the other hand... c'mon, dude. The US will enver use them again. Even if something like The Sum Of All Fears happens, we won't do it. We'll freak out, either a) re-elect Republicans because they're in power and "strong on defense" or b) dump the Democrats in power because they "let one boy kiss another boy", and use conventional weapons to bomb the WRONG country back into the Stone Age. Maybe Sierra Leone this time.

Lets just pull all the troops out of the entire middle east including Israel(if we have anybody there). Then when Iran attacks Israel we will be justified in bombing the hell out of everyone. I think the biggest problem with this war was there was no justification for it. Americans really dont have a problem killing enemys that deserve it. This is at least historically accurate coconcerning WWII.

If you farkers say 9/11 was reason enough for this war then I feel sorry for your mothers for having raised such stupid ignorant Americans.

>> Yes, we understand subby and most responders: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.

Don't those traitors know that it's patriotic to start wars and kill thousands of americans over lies about WMDs.

Mission Accomplished?

Not news: guy says rapid withdrawal is only solution to quagmire in Iraq. News: guy says this to the Senate. Fark: he's a retired general

America hater...

randomjsa: Yes, we understand subby and most responders: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.

Why does everything have to be in terms of winning and losing? It's that kind of mind set that got us here in the first place. This is war, not a sports game.

/Doesn't have the military or America. Dunno why people insist liberals hate the military when we were the ones trying to get them freakin body amour.

'Doesn't hate* the military or America.' Sometimes even spell check can't save me.

randomjsa: Yes, we understand the retired General: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.

FTFY to make it clear how stupid you are.

/why do these military men hate the military?! Won't someone in the military please think of the military?!

Let's pull our troops from Colorado just to give the Reds a false sense of security.

RyanWillia: Let's pull our troops from Colorado just to give the Reds a false sense of security.

I see what you did there.

I prefer following Bush's suggestion, which is staying the path. Its definitely cleaned up the American gene pool oh so slightly but boy has it had an affect on those who once and still agrees with Bush today.

//Vote for his leadership, die by his deciderness.

Theaetetus: randomjsa: Yes, we understand the retired General: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.

FTFY to make it clear how stupid you are.

/why do these military men hate the military?! Won't someone in the military please think of the military?!

Remember, that the more wacky conservatives see those that go against the president as just another traitor no matter how much they have sacrificed for their country.

I like this guy's speech/article because it bascially decimates all of the fear-laced talking points of the Bush administration's reasons why we can't leave Iraq.

The situation is going to be bad for a while no matter what anyone does. Sunnis and Shiites are going to fight each other and the Kurds are always going to be glaring across the border at Turkey. At this point, our presence there is not one of a "war" but one of occupation. We are a foregin presence that is hanging around and trying to keep the peace by making everyone get along. That is an occupation. A war is when you have an enemy that you need to either destroy or subdue or come to terms with. There is an objectvie that is finite in war. And the idea that we are fighting the "terrorists" is pure nonsense. You can't fight "the terrorist". That's like saying you are fighting "the bad guys". It's a bullshiat umbrella statement that can be used to turn anyone into an enemy.

Now if they are reffering to the people who attacked us, well...they aren't in Iraq. They are in Afghanistan/Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. How the administration hasn't been more publicly called out on this is beyond me. And to think the last president we tried to impeach because of a few possible shady deals with the Chinese and blowjobs *facepalm*

By fighting "The War on Terror" we are swinging wildy into the dark trying to fight the wind at the expense of the average American and the military.

Good speech. How much money and for how long will U.S. need to pay Iraqis to side with us. Sooner the troops are out, the better.

InferiousX: By fighting "The War on Terror" we are swinging wildy into the dark trying to fight the wind at the expense of the average American and the military.

Your comments remind me of Roy Zimmerman's "That is the War on Terror". (pops)

Check out some of his other stuff if you've bothered to click on my link.

pvd021: I prefer following Bush's suggestion, which is staying the path. Its definitely cleaned up the American gene pool oh so slightly but boy has it had an affect on those who once and still agrees with Bush today.

//Vote for his leadership, die by his deciderness.

Some of us have friends and family serving over there...

/If they once and still agree with Bush, this hasn't affected them at all.

randomjsa

Yes, we understand subby and most responders: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush,

If we hated the military, we'd be in favor of letting them stay in Iraq and get killed. If we hated America, we'd be in favor of continuing the occupation, since it's done more damage to America's political, economic, and moral standing in the world than any event in the past hundred years.

/I'll grant that we hate Bush
//and you

Haven't RTFT yet, but from the article I'd say this is gonna be a good one.

The only sensible strategy is to withdraw rapidly but in good order.
--
Who was that? He who said the same thing Ron Paul said... a retired General? Gee, imagine that.
--------
AliceInWonderland: Why use our oil when we can use theirs?
--
Look how much using their oil is costing us. And who is making the record profits from it. It's a scam.
--------
randomjsa: Yes, we understand subby and most responders: You hate the military, you hate America, and you hate Bush, and in spite of what will happen if we lose you're more than glad to see it happen because the alternative would mean you were wrong... Again.
--
You cannot accept the truth, can ya? You just have to put it like the Bushies do, "If you don't stand beside us, you hate America". Well that doesn't work anymore, people are smarter than that to fall for that tripe again, except for those who are afraid to stand up against the idiocy. Face it, standing up for this idiocy is truly against America, and therefore- You are the one who hates America. Pinko Communist. (Would have added "fag", but I didn't want to insult gay people.)
-------

Let us get out of there. If they kill each other, great. If the bad guys win (and who is that btw), at least we have a decisive target to bomb.

I liked ol' Reagan. Remember when Khadafy was running off at the mouth? We just bombed them and they shut the hell up. Ya don't hear much from him much.

Ed Finnerty

Haha nice link. I wasn't expecting that.

The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster.

It would dishonor the men and women who have already died.

It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people, and it would be hugely destabilizing from a national security perspective.



/not mine. But you have to agree with reason when a person smarter than you comes up with it.

Amusing responses.

You don't hate the military? "Terrorizing women and children in the night" "air raiding villages"... Ringing any bells? Did you want some more major liberal figure quotes besmirching the name of the military? You don't hate America? Countless dozens of banners and signs seen at your little anti-'war' rallies seem to indicate otherwise.

As for the love, respect and adoration you swear you have for the military or the sneering suggestion that we regard anyone who disagrees with Bush as a traitor... I find it funny that a retired general who says what you want to hear is clearly to be respected, but an active general who has served just as honorably as anyone is called a traitor and a liar by liberals simply because he reports what you don't want to hear.

Descartes

The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster is inevitable.

FTFY

3 US troops killed (new window) 31 injured on Green zone rocket attack.

randomjsa: ...I find it funny that a retired general who says what you want to hear is clearly to be respected, but an active general who has served just as honorably as anyone is called a traitor and a liar by liberals simply because he reports what you don't want to hear.

You realize, of course, that Bush made a habit of firing military personnel who questioned his tactics or outright criticized them. He discarded everything until he found a man willing to parrot his beliefs and you consider it a sign of victory.

...You don't hate the military? "Terrorizing women and children in the night" "air raiding villages"... Ringing any bells?...

No, actually.

randomjsa: Amusing response.

It would be funnier if any sitting General that gave their honest opinion wasn't fired for doing so.

I find it funny that a retired general who says what you want to hear is clearly to be respected, but an active general who has served just as honorably as anyone is called a traitor and a liar by liberals simply because he reports what you don't want to hear.

Please see above post. If you don't know which Generals I'm talking about, please say so. I can provide you with links.

Remove all Republicans: How many more men have to die for your honor?

// dammit, you make me quote Ron Paul


Did I just see Remove all Republicans quote Ron Paul? I don't...I don't know how to respond to this. I think I might need to go sit down.

The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

JUNE 20TH 2005

Skeptos: Strawman

Nice try, but a straw man argument actually has to be constructed of opinions that have not actually been expressed. When an American general shows up in DC to testify he is called a liar by liberals but when a former member of the military thinks we should withdraw he's wise and we shouldn't question him because of his honorable service.

Interesting, so why are we calling an active military general a liar and questioning his patriotism if we're suppose to take his honorable service in to account. Time and again when current or former military members say something liberals disagree with... All of a sudden they have a member of the military they like, right up until they hear a differing opinion from another current or former member of the military then they start calling that person a liar.

GodsTumor

The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

JUNE 20TH 2005

I like this one a bit better:

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
- George W. Bush, 1 May 2003

WFern: randomjsa: "...I find it funny that a retired general who says what you want to hear is clearly to be respected, but an active general who has served just as honorably as anyone is called a traitor and a liar by liberals simply because he reports what you don't want to hear."

You realize, of course, that Bush made a habit of firing military personnel who questioned his tactics or outright criticized them. He discarded everything until he found a man willing to parrot his beliefs and you consider it a sign of victory.

This, plus active duty officers are not allowed to publicly criticize tactics of their superiors.

randomjsa: I find it funny that a retired general who says what you want to hear is clearly to be respected, but an active general who has served just as honorably as anyone is called a traitor and a liar by liberals simply because he reports what you don't want to hear.
----
It's because he is a liar. Just like everything the Bush administration has said. You cannot defend the insurmountable stack of lies coming from Bush and his defendants. Portreaus is a Bush defendant ignoring what his own active Generals are saying despite being prohibited to speak out against the war.

Just because you can silence the messenger, does not make the truth less than it is.

Dude, wake up.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9884070
http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/43/dissension_in_the_ranks
http://www.ivaw.org/warresisters
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/04/iraqgenerals200704

randomjsa

All of a sudden they have a member of the military they like, right up until they hear a differing opinion from another current or former member of the military then they start calling that person a liar.

I agree, the Swift Boat-ing of John Kerry was utterly disgusting.

Descartes: The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster.

It would dishonor the men and women who have already died.

It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people, and it would be hugely destabilizing from a national security perspective.

/not mine. But you have to agree with reason when a person smarter than you comes up with it.

Ed Tom Bell: That man that shot you died in prison.

Ellis: Angola. Yeah...

Ed Tom Bell: What you'd done he had been released?
Ellis: Oh, I dunno. Nothing. Wouldn't be no point in it.

Ed Tom Bell: I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that.

Ellis: Well all the time ya spend trying to get back what's been took from ya, more is going out the door. After a while you just have to try to get a tourniquet on it.

Skeptos: randomjsa

All of a sudden they have a member of the military they like, right up until they hear a differing opinion from another current or former member of the military then they start calling that person a liar.

I agree, the Swift Boat-ing of John Kerry was utterly disgusting.

What they did to Max Cleveland was unbelievably revolting.

Skeptos:

I like this one a bit better:

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
- George W. Bush, 1 May 2003

Yeah, you got me there...
/Maybe combat operations are still going on but, we're 'turning the corner'?

Descartes

It would dishonor the men and women who have already died by continuing to keep the ones who are still alive over there in an unjust cause.

It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people made by corrupt politicians who had no one's best interest at heart but their own, and it would be hugely destabilizing stabalizing from a national security perspective because our military would be more free to deal with enemies that actually threaten our saftey.

FTFY


/not mine. But you have to agree with reason when a person smarter than you comes up with it.

Well therein lies the flaw to your argument for your talking points. I legitimately believe that I am smarter than the president. So no, I don't have to agree.

Skeptos:
I like this one a bit better:

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
- George W. Bush, 1 May 2003

"It was al-Sadr that declared the ceasefire, not Maliki," said McCain. "With respect, I don't think Sadr would have declared the ceasefire if he thought he was winning. Most times in history, military engagements, the winning side doesn't declare the ceasefire. The second point is, overall, the Iraqi military performed pretty well. ... The military is functioning very effectively."
John McCain 4/6/08

/Maliki declared the ceasefire.

Descartes: The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster.

We are irrelevent to the success or failure of the Iraqi government, they will succeed or fail on their own now.

It would dishonor the men and women who have already died.

The success or failure of the Iraqi government is irrelevant to the value of the sacrifice made by our soldiers. Failure would dishonor the bush administration, and that ship has sailed.

It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people, and it would be hugely destabilizing from a national security perspective.

It would be the betrayal of a lie made by the bush administration. Regardless of the stability of Iraq, they will not be a danger to our national security.

/not mine. But you have to agree with reason when a person smarter than you comes up with it.

Do you mean Rush?

I agree, the Swift Boat-ing of John Kerry was utterly disgusting.

Speaking of which...did you see Kerry getting the third degree from Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday today?Link

McCain was on the same show today and got the kid glove treatment ...Kerry got talked over and Chris wouldn't respond to certain responses Kerry gave...

RyanWillia: /Maliki declared the ceasefire.

Cool! They've stood up.

We can stand down now, right?