500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Yes, but did he also get a stern letter of reprimand?

Seatech Astronomy...

/Too Many Secrets.
//It was close.

Community service should be baggage handling.

/or a teabagging
JC

Ron Paul Revere: Actually, one can opt out of community service by paying the cash equivalent of the sentence. For example, I believe the general amount the labor is considered worth is $10/hour. In his case, that would equal $5,000. Not a very big sum for a guy who could afford a lawyer that got him this sentence.

I haven't heard of that before. Is that true in all states?

Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

The problem is that some poor slob trying to stop an airplane with the same kind of threat would have gotten a harsher sentence.

/still looking for the real killer on Florida golf courses

Ron Paul Revere: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Actually, one can opt out of community service by paying the cash equivalent of the sentence. For example, I believe the general amount the labor is considered worth is $10/hour. In his case, that would equal $5,000. Not a very big sum for a guy who could afford a lawyer that got him this sentence.

No, in this case, I'm all about a punitive prison sentence. People have been given actual prison time for saying the word "bomb" in the security clearance line. There are countless examples of other, less wealthy people getting the same treatment for similar or even relatively minor offenses.

/pissed off subby

It can be true, if the Judge allows it. For most people $5000 is a pretty big deal. Since it likely would not be as big a burden to the Doc I would imagine the Judge would never allow it and make him do the community service.

Since he is a Doc he will probably work it out so that those 500 hours are going to be at a free clinic or something. This I would be happy with because it's far more valuable a service to the community than picking up trash or whatever. That's 12.5 weeks of full time work.

/once had to do community service.
//stupid friend tried to use his fake ID WITH THE COPS! Moran. 24 hours of church floor vacuuming later and the nice prosecutor dropped the charges.

Where does it say he is rich?

Ron Paul Revere:
No, in this case, I'm all about a punitive prison sentence. People have been given actual prison time for saying the word "bomb" in the security clearance line. There are countless examples of other, less wealthy people getting the same treatment for similar or even relatively minor offenses.

/pissed off subby

Actually I don't want him in jail. That takes up space and costs money. He hardly sounds like a threat to society, and doesn't sound like a repeat offender (really, would anyone try this twice after being caught?). Make him do something useful. If the point is to "pay society back" for a wrong, prison is rarely the answer. If the person is dangerous or likely to go right back to crime, then jail seems like a better solution.

/thinks minor criminals who dropped out of HS should have to get GEDs for punishment so they can later get a jorb and do something useful (which should also be a requirement).

Ron Paul Revere: T.M.S.: Where does it say he is rich?

The part of the article that describes him as a physician. You know any that eat Top Ramen daily?

Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?

Close but no. They control supply by limiting med school sizes. The licenses come from the states' licensing boards NOT the AMA. This is why the government has been calling for an increase in med school class sizes for like 10 years now, which has not really happened yet.

liberalish: He hardly sounds like a threat to society, and doesn't sound like a repeat offender (really, would anyone try this twice after being caught?).

That's the exact reason I think he should serve time.

I don't get your reasoning, explain?

Ron Paul Revere: T.M.S.: Where does it say he is rich?

The part of the article that describes him as a physician. You know any that eat Top Ramen daily?

Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?



liberalish: He hardly sounds like a threat to society, and doesn't sound like a repeat offender (really, would anyone try this twice after being caught?).

That's the exact reason I think he should serve time.

Thank you for the information. I had no idea all doctors were rich.

I have to call a buddy of mine working in an AIDS hospital in Kenya and tell him he really can afford that new BMW.

Given the rise in creative sentencing, I say his community service should be at a VD clinic.

Ron Paul Revere: liberalish: I don't get your reasoning, explain?

This is a certain instance where I think the perpetrator should be handed a prison sentence for punitive reasons. I believe so because what he did was contemptuous, wasted resources, and was done solely because he's a dumbass who can't get to the airport on time. Instead of manning up and accepting his own shortcomings, he cost the airline and the government thousands of dollars, not to mention delaying the passengers of his plane (and possibly others).

I'd much, much rather have my tax money spent on housing this jackhole instead of druggies. Any day.

I do see your point, and could be persuaded to agree with it, but I wouldn't give him more than a week or two if jail was being considered. If jail is going to be the sentence for being a self serving asshole (I know it was more than parking in a handicapped spot) than we're gonna need a bigger jail.

I just figure the highest net benefit to society is for him to do community service that otherwise would cost the gov't alot of money. He cost us money, now he will work it off and more. That's why I'm not a fan of mandatory sentencing minimums. I would be one of those judges that comes up with creative sentences to try to maximize the positive outcome for society AND the criminal (like I said earlier, get a GED, job, do useful community service etc as PART of the punishment) so long as they're not really a threat to anyone.

FTA:

"Bob Sheehan, a local man who said he attended the hearing on behalf of inconvenienced plane passengers and other law-abiding citizens, scoffed as the judge sentenced Chiu.

He called the punishment "a farce." "

R P R?

Again, 500 hours is 12.5 weeks of full time work and he paid the $81,000 restitution to Northwest Airlines (or will).

Ron Paul Revere:
I, too, also believe that our prison system creates more criminals...........

Well I see we basically agree on things. If we were both judges in a court house in cases like this the defense lawyers would be trying to schedule things on my days. For other types of cases they'd all probably line up for you.

Ron Paul Revere: liberalish: Well I see we basically agree on things. If we were both judges in a court house in cases like this the defense lawyers would be trying to schedule things on my days. For other types of cases they'd all probably line up for you.

Your quotation of my words just made me realize how redundant that wording was. *facepalm*

Yes, I think defense lawyers would probably seek me out for cases involving abuse of power and rights violations. I'm a sucker for keeping the government in check.

It's ok. I, too, also, likewise, in addition, as well, similarly can be redundant and say the same thing twice again.

/and I didn't notice yours till you pointed it out. I was just trying to save digital paper.

T.M.S.: I have to call a buddy of mine working in an AIDS hospital in Kenya and tell him he really can afford that new BMW.

That's great, now show me the part in the article that said this story happened in Kenya? And do you think in Kenya your friend is just part of the masses????
/Teh dumb, u got it

Exhibit #3209 as to why intelligence =/= brains.

Ron Paul Revere: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Actually, one can opt out of community service by paying the cash equivalent of the sentence. For example, I believe the general amount the labor is considered worth is $10/hour. In his case, that would equal $5,000. Not a very big sum for a guy who could afford a lawyer that got him this sentence.

No, in this case, I'm all about a punitive prison sentence. People have been given actual prison time for saying the word "bomb" in the security clearance line. There are countless examples of other, less wealthy people getting the same treatment for similar or even relatively minor offenses.

/pissed off subby

Not to defend the fact that this guys sounds like a jackass, but are you objecting to the fact that individuals with money can afford better services than those without, or are you objecting to the fact that a guy who went through 10+ years of schooling and training before earning a meaningful income now probably makes decent money (though maybe not as much as you would think). Should I complain because more successful people than me have nicer things, thinking that they are in the wrong because the worked hard and succeeded?

Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Why has he not lost his doctoring license? He obviously has failed an important test of his ethics. he should not be allowed to practice medicine. What else does this man illegally manipulate for his convenience?

Ron Paul Revere: ...

Someone needs to get out of his mothers basement...

hyperspacemonkey: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Why has he not lost his doctoring license? He obviously has failed an important test of his ethics. he should not be allowed to practice medicine. What else does this man illegally manipulate for his convenience?

Why on earth would he lose his license to practice medicine? He has not done anything to jeopardize his medical practice or ability to practice. One idiotic slip of judgment does not mean that he should be banned from practicing medicine.

SeaTac Intl.? That's child's play. Try S E T E C A S T R O N O M Y



/not impressed.

MycroftHolmes: Ron Paul Revere: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Actually, one can opt out of community service by paying the cash equivalent of the sentence. For example, I believe the general amount the labor is considered worth is $10/hour. In his case, that would equal $5,000. Not a very big sum for a guy who could afford a lawyer that got him this sentence.

No, in this case, I'm all about a punitive prison sentence. People have been given actual prison time for saying the word "bomb" in the security clearance line. There are countless examples of other, less wealthy people getting the same treatment for similar or even relatively minor offenses.

/pissed off subby

Not to defend the fact that this guys sounds like a jackass, but are you objecting to the fact that individuals with money can afford better services than those without, or are you objecting to the fact that a guy who went through 10+ years of schooling and training before earning a meaningful income now probably makes decent money (though maybe not as much as you would think). Should I complain because more successful people than me have nicer things, thinking that they are in the wrong because the worked hard and succeeded?



Thank you; I've never understood why people are always so mad at what doctors make; 12 years of schooling and training, and a significant portion of income goes to the outrageous cost of mal practice insurance. The average salary of a generalist in the united states is 143,000; that is not that much money in this day and age to consider someone "filthy farking rich"

Ron Paul Revere Your buddy isn't rich because he chose to do humanitarian work. Good on him, but he's an exception to the rule, and for quite obvious reasons.

Your fallacious argument: let me show you it.

According to the article the doc is 32 years old. Which means he's just finished 4 years of undergraduate college, 4 years of med school, and at least three years of internship/residency (at a very modest salary). Which means he's most likely a few hundred thousand in debt at this point.

Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Someone may have already said this, but in most states, an offender can "buy out" their community service hours at somewhere between $7-$15 per hour. I'm betting he can afford that. In other words, he ain't cleanin' up shiat.

kntgsp: Ron Paul Revere: Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?

I went over that comment earlier. The AMA has alot of sway over medical school and residency class sizes. State licensing boards regulate licenses. The government has been asking for increased med school class sizes for years now (of course, have they added any funding to cover this? IDK), but it has yet to happen in any significant way.

hyperspacemonkey:
Why has he not lost his doctoring license? He obviously has failed an important test of his ethics. he should not be allowed to practice medicine. What else does this man illegally manipulate for his convenience?

In most states (I think) felony convictions will automatically suspend your license. The state board will then review everything and decide to reinstate or revoke.

Shatner's Toupee: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Someone may have already said this, but in most states, an offender can "buy out" their community service hours at somewhere between $7-$15 per hour. I'm betting he can afford that. In other words, he ain't cleanin' up shiat.

NO he ain't. He's doing 500 hours of free medical work for poor patients. I highly doubt the judge will approve of a cash buyout since he specifically ordered the sentence (RTFA).

/echo....echo

Ron Paul Revere: MycroftHolmes: but are you objecting to the fact that individuals with money can afford better services than those without

This part, yes. In the specific area of the legal system and justice, I don't believe the amount of money one has should ever have an effect upon the outcome.

/yes, libertarians can disagree with standard dogma

So you believe that the legal system should be socialized?

Were I the judge, I'd give him a cruel and unusual sentence:

500 hours of community service in his practice, seeing patients for free.

As someone stuck in seatac airport waiting for a flight I'm really getting a kick out of these reply's...

zahal: Why on earth would he lose his license to practice medicine? He has not done anything to jeopardize his medical practice or ability to practice. One idiotic slip of judgment does not mean that he should be banned from practicing medicine.

In some states a doctor can lose his license to practice for as little as being in default of his student loans or failure to complete a service obligation. Most states medical boards see being convicted of a felony as reason enough to pull a license.

The fact that he was either outrageously self-serving, heroically idiotic or off his meds as he initially claimed may well be reason enough. The magnitude of his lack of judgment may get the board reviewers to think "Well, what if he has a similar massive braincramp when he's working on a patient?"

Ron Paul Revere: tomhath: According to the article the doc is 32 years old. Which means he's just finished 4 years of undergraduate college, 4 years of med school, and at least three years of internship/residency (at a very modest salary). Which means he's most likely a few hundred thousand in debt at this point.

Assuming he started college at 18, that's about 3 years to develop a practice or get a good paying hospital job. I acknowledge he very likely is heavily in debt at the moment (I'm not obtuse), but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a high enough salary to delay paying off his loans and instead hire a good attorney.

Just about anyone in a profession can go into debt to afford a good lawyer if their freedom is jeopardized.

I am trying to figure out if legal services should be provided equally and vigorously for ALL individuals regardless of their income, who is going to foot the bill? Should lawyers, investigators, expert witnesses, fornsics labs, and all other supporting industries simply volunteer their services because you have the idea money shouldn't matter?

Ron Paul Revere: Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?

In Ron Paul Revere's defense: the AMA does limit the number of licenses given out each year. It happens to correspond almost exactly to the number of farking seats in medical schools, but it IS limited...

farking troll.

Valarius: Were I the judge, I'd give him a cruel and unusual sentence:

500 hours of community service in his practice, seeing patients for free.

facepalm

/internet in the airport is too slow to bother with Picard photo

Ron Paul Revere: liberalish: I don't get your reasoning, explain?

This is a certain instance where I think the perpetrator should be handed a prison sentence for punitive reasons. I believe so because what he did was contemptuous, wasted resources, and was done solely because he's a dumbass who can't get to the airport on time. Instead of manning up and accepting his own shortcomings, he cost the airline and the government thousands of dollars, not to mention delaying the passengers of his plane (and possibly others).

I'd much, much rather have my tax money spent on housing this jackhole instead of druggies. Any day.

The plane would have done the same thing if someone was having a heart attack on board. What should that person's punishment be for inconveniencing the passengers and costing the airline money?

My point being, that shiat happens. Planes have to turn around for all kinds of reasons, all human-caused and blame can be pointed at anyone you want to. Yes, the doc purposely call in the threat (3 times), but the world is full of cuckoos (read Fark much?) so we all should be grateful when our lives AREN'T mal-affacted by someone and shouldn't expect everything to go perfectly. It's hard to accept a non-punitive punishment, but it really is for the best, it seems. If an individual passenger wants to sue him, I'm sure they could and win.

Ron Paul Revere: MycroftHolmes: So you believe that the legal system should be socialized?

At a national level, God no. They'd just screw it up.

I'd like to see the state governments work hand in hand with the bar associations to do something similar to what goes on in Canada. Instead of having dedicated public defenders, those who specialized in criminal defense would have to spend a certain portion of their time defending people who otherwise couldn't afford their services. This would of course be tax deductible.

So, to answer your question, yes and no.

/I'm a pragmatist at heart and believe in doing things that work rather than sticking to a set ideologySorry but that won't work. I could just see someone like F Lee Bailey going around with a big stamp called 'Plea Bargain' or 'Plea Guilty' to all those unfortunate souls. What a betterment of our legal system.

Ron Paul Revere: MycroftHolmes: So you believe that the legal system should be socialized?

At a national level, God no. They'd just screw it up.

I'd like to see the state governments work hand in hand with the bar associations to do something similar to what goes on in Canada. Instead of having dedicated public defenders, those who specialized in criminal defense would have to spend a certain portion of their time defending people who otherwise couldn't afford their services. This would of course be tax deductible.

So, to answer your question, yes and no.

/I'm a pragmatist at heart and believe in doing things that work rather than sticking to a set ideology

Alright, you REALLY need to start doing your research on topics that you obviously know nothing about. Ever hear about "Legal Aid?" That's a system we use in Ontario where the government pays the legal fees to private attorneys for people who can't afford them.

Ron Paul Revere: Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?

What retarded moron told you that?

I don't think medical schools can even have bigger classes...in state schools the state looses money for every doctor it produces.

Ron Paul Revere: OK, so I had the general gist of what we're talking about. Apologies for not knowing every detail about how a system in another country works.

You can't even get the details right on how systems work in your OWN country, so apology accepted.

Ron Paul Revere: This part, yes. In the specific area of the legal system and justice, I don't believe the amount of money one has should ever have an effect upon the outcome.

100 days or $100. It has always been thus.

Quantum Apostrophe: T.M.S.: I have to call a buddy of mine working in an AIDS hospital in Kenya and tell him he really can afford that new BMW.

That's great, now show me the part in the article that said this story happened in Kenya? And do you think in Kenya your friend is just part of the masses????
/Teh dumb, u got it

The same part of the article that says the doctor is rich.

RPR insinuated that all doctors were rich. I know many that are not and provided an example. That was the end of it for me but aparently neither of you can leave it alone.

It may be difficut for you to hear but you are not nearly as smart or clever as you think.

Ron Paul Revere: T.M.S.: It may be difficut for you to hear but you are not nearly as smart or clever as you think.

My mommy says I'm special.

She means the other kind of special.

zahal: hyperspacemonkey: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Why has he not lost his doctoring license? He obviously has failed an important test of his ethics. he should not be allowed to practice medicine. What else does this man illegally manipulate for his convenience?

Why on earth would he lose his license to practice medicine? He has not done anything to jeopardize his medical practice or ability to practice. One idiotic slip of judgment does not mean that he should be banned from practicing medicine.

If you are a doctor and get a DUI, you can lose your license. It's an ethical matter.

Ron Paul Revere: Chuck Wagon: 500 hours of community service is hardly a slap on the wrist. He is going to be helping the community instead of wasting the community's money sitting in jail. I don't see a problem here.

Actually, one can opt out of community service by paying the cash equivalent of the sentence. For example, I believe the general amount the labor is considered worth is $10/hour. In his case, that would equal $5,000. Not a very big sum for a guy who could afford a lawyer that got him this sentence.

No, in this case, I'm all about a punitive prison sentence. People have been given actual prison time for saying the word "bomb" in the security clearance line. There are countless examples of other, less wealthy people getting the same treatment for similar or even relatively minor offenses.

/pissed off subby

I find it hillarious because I am now unemployed and was only making $19,000 a year when I was working last month. If I had pulled such a stunt they would have dragged me off the plane, cut off my balls and shoved me through a large prop planes proppeller in front of the terminal windows while passing out bags of popcorn. If they were feeling mercifull.

/would almost be worth it.

From the article:

The judge also indicated that all of Chiu's community-service hours would have to be fulfilled by providing free medical care to the poor and uninsured.

Seems like a amicable solution all around to me.

darknys: Ron Paul Revere: Did you know.. the AMA purposely limits the amount of licenses it doles out each year to artificially lower supply and keep their incomes high?

In Ron Paul Revere's defense: the AMA does limit the number of licenses given out each year. It happens to correspond almost exactly to the number of farking seats in medical schools, but it IS limited...

farking troll.

The AMA does not grant licenses. It is a professional organization. Only 15-20% of physicians are even in the AMA.

For the third time, state medical licensing boards grant licenses. The AMA works with medical curriculums, schools, residency programs, and educational things and such. maps. it doesn't license physicians.

Even though he reeks of Ron Paul, RPR seems pretty decent and non-troll-like (note our disagreement above and the lack of vitriol).

Ron Paul? Ronnie?

Stay down.

Eh, this case isn't as clear-cut an instance of "let's protect the rich yuppie." Sure, he's rich, but the argument that he's a doctor and can thus repay the community doing a vital community service actually holds merit. If a software executive gets community service he winds up doing some "job" that requires no effort or intelligence, versus if a doctor does community service he winds up working at a free clinic helping the sick and, occasionally, saving a life or two.

If you ask me the real problem is that this whole "community service" crap is too limited. Judges assign community service as a modern form of public flogging with tasks like litter collection, when in reality they should be emphasizing the "service" part of it. Don't have that software exec serve soup at a soup kitchen, make him dust off the old computer skills and spend the next 40 weekends helping to upgrade and install computers in every public school in the county, or have him clean up the overcluttered cold case evidence database for the district attorney's office at no cost to the taxpayer. (security issues notwithstanding) Yeah, it's a waste of his talents, but at least you can be sure he knows what he's doing, versus having some unemployed meat packer picked up for DUI doing it. There are dozens of other tasks which the community as a whole has a unfilled need for in most places which could easily be satisfied by people working off their debt to society via community service.