Or not to lie his ass off like he did last time...

Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar. That man has a level of self control that is damn near super human. How do you see the casualty reports every day, see what has been bought with that blood, and then come back here and see some harpies demean that sacrifice. I'm surprised the man has not snapped yet.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar.

If past performance is any indication, he is.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar. That man has a level of self control that is damn near super human. How do you see the casualty reports every day, see what has been bought with that blood, and then come back here and see some harpies demean that sacrifice. I'm surprised the man has not snapped yet.

that's funny, i would ask how you see the casualty reports every day, see what has been bought with that blood being destroyed by the enemy turned ally turned enemy, and then come back and say everything is going peachy?

TFA: "The stretch and strain on our military is like never before," said Skelton. "I am terribly worried about this."

Yeah, I'm sure FDR felt perfectly at ease with the strain on the military. Only thing to fear and all that.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: come back here and see some harpies demean that sacrifice

If he's so irrational that he sees debate about the war as "demean[ing a] sacrifice," maybe he shouldn't be in a position of leadership.

Petraeus, Petraeus... General Petraeus... oh oh oh Petraeus

Rock me Petraeus.

I first read that as General Pelosi.

I have Petraeus's book. The Counterinsurgency Field Manual. It's quite interesting. I recommend it.

FTA: We have to know the real ground truths of what is happening there

Wow. So controversial.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar. That man has a level of self control that is damn near super human. How do you see the casualty reports every day, see what has been bought with that blood, and then come back here and see some harpies demean that sacrifice. I'm surprised the man has not snapped yet.

How is asking for the truth about Iraq demeaning the sacrifice? Do you really believe the Bush Admin is giving the full story on Iraq? Because the next time they tell the truth about it will be the first time they do. Honestly if Nancy Pelosi makes him snap but seeing 40,000 of his fellow soldiers get lousy medical treatment is a-ok hunky-dory, then the man has a problem that extends far beyond his ability to tell believable lies. And if asking a question is demeaning, but doing absolutely nothing to make the public sacrifice or even acknowledge the war other than a bunch of suburbanites having faded yellow magnets made in Pakistan on the back of their cars is not, then your priorities are screwed up.

Is it really that unreasonable to ask someone in Iraq to tell the truth?

I predict that the Congressional testimony will go like this:

Congress: General Petraeus, General Petraeus

Pelosi: Can I play the piano anymore?
Petraeus: Of course you can.
Pelosi: Well I couldn't before!
[piano solo]
...

Petraeus: I hate every Congressman I see
From Congressman-a to Congressman-zee
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me

Oh my God, I was wrong
Iraq was farked up all along
You've finally made a monkey

Democrats: Yes, we've finally made a monkey
Petraeus: Yes, you've finally made a monkey out of me
Democrats: Yes, we've finally made a monkey out of you

Petraeus: I love you, Nancy Pelosi!

It's the part I was born to play, baby!

pandabear: TFA: "The stretch and strain on our military is like never before," said Skelton. "I am terribly worried about this."

Yeah, I'm sure FDR felt perfectly at ease with the strain on the military. Only thing to fear and all that.

Siiiiiigh. You know why the military wasn't strained during WW2?

Because we had a draft, and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

There is no WAY today's Americans would consider even a fraction of the efforts our grandparents did! Rationing meat? Not driving? Planting a garden?

Please. You can't even get Americans to recycle, and you think the types of civil orders put in place in the 1940's would fly?

Don't be stupid.

If a doctor is performing unnecessary surgery can he ever say it's "going well"?
"We cut the wrong kidney out of you, but it's healing up great!"

kronicfeld: If he's so irrational that he sees debate about the war as "demean[ing a] sacrifice," maybe he shouldn't be in a position of leadership.

So telling someone not to highlight a positive thing is a debate now?

Tastes Like Chicken: How is asking for the truth about Iraq demeaning the sacrifice? Do you really believe the Bush Admin is giving the full story on Iraq? Because the next time they tell the truth about it will be the first time they do. Honestly if Nancy Pelosi makes him snap but seeing 40,000 of his fellow soldiers get lousy medical treatment is a-ok hunky-dory, then the man has a problem that extends far beyond his ability to tell believable lies. And if asking a question is demeaning, but doing absolutely nothing to make the public sacrifice or even acknowledge the war other than a bunch of suburbanites having faded yellow magnets made in Pakistan on the back of their cars is not, then your priorities are screwed up.

Is it really that unreasonable to ask someone in Iraq to tell the truth?

You act like he has control over everything in the military! You really think he has control over the medical treatment of returning troops? And I am not talking about asking questions. Ask all the questions you want, it's the statement I'm have a trouble with. If they really cared about what was going on these would be closed door sessions. That way they could ask question that could not (should not) be disclosed to the public. But then they would not have all those lovely tv cameras to pose for.

what_now: and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

A sad impossibility today.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: So telling someone not to highlight a positive thing is a debate now?

Telling someone not to gloss over the hard truth is, yes.

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

A sad impossibility today.

I know. Not just the concept of a draft, but could you see people planting Victory Gardens and using Green Stamps?

Doctor Funkenstein: I predict that the Congressional testimony will go like this:

Congress: General Petraeus, General Petraeus

Pelosi: Can I play the piano anymore?
Petraeus: Of course you can.
Pelosi: Well I couldn't before!
[piano solo]
...

Petraeus: I hate every Congressman I see
From Congressman-a to Congressman-zee
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me

Oh my God, I was wrong
Iraq was farked up all along
You've finally made a monkey

Democrats: Yes, we've finally made a monkey
Petraeus: Yes, you've finally made a monkey out of me
Democrats: Yes, we've finally made a monkey out of you

Petraeus: I love you, Nancy Pelosi!

that post was

what_now: Siiiiiigh. You know why the military wasn't strained during WW2?

Because we had a draft, and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

There is no WAY today's Americans would consider even a fraction of the efforts our grandparents did! Rationing meat? Not driving? Planting a garden?

Please. You can't even get Americans to recycle, and you think the types of civil orders put in place in the 1940's would fly?

Don't be stupid.

I agree with you in part.

I think that trying to wage a war without truly engaging the country is part of the flaw in Bush's execution. We at home have little to no ownership of the conflict. It's a distant reality. All we know of it is its expense in soldiers and money. And with no skin in the game, we're prone to say the expense isn't worth it.

Just look at his recommendation after 9/11: "Go shopping."

There is no such thing as a war without consequences. If we had more of a personal stake in the war, we might be more inclined to accept those consequences.

what_now: Not just the concept of a draft, but could you see people planting Victory Gardens and using Green Stamps?

Not like my Parents generation.

what_now:
Siiiiiigh. You know why the military wasn't strained during WW2?

Because we had a draft, and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

There is no WAY today's Americans would consider even a fraction of the efforts our grandparents did! Rationing meat? Not driving? Planting a garden?

Please. You can't even get Americans to recycle, and you think the types of civil orders put in place in the 1940's would fly?

Don't be stupid.

To be fair, if there was a threat today that equaled Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Americans would probably be more willing to sacrifice to stop it. But since we're mainly fighting a ragtag bunch of third-world guerrillas in a war of aggression, people don't give a fark.

Doctor Funkenstein

If Congressional hearings had a non-zero chance of spontaneously bursting into musical dance numbers, I'd watch C-Span every day.

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Not just the concept of a draft, but could you see people planting Victory Gardens and using Green Stamps?

Not like my Parents generation.

You know all those "Teenage thug tries to rob elderly man/woman, gets ass kicked" stories that Fark loves so much?

I don't think we have very long to enjoy them.

Jubeebee: To be fair, if there was a threat today that equaled Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan,

Ha! You didn't pay attention in 2002-2005, when we were being told that if we didn't fight in Iraq, we would all be forced to wear burkhas and recite the Koran in a few years?

The threat is NOT real, but the powers that be tried their damnedest to make the sheeple think it was.

what_now: pandabear: TFA: "The stretch and strain on our military is like never before," said Skelton. "I am terribly worried about this."

Yeah, I'm sure FDR felt perfectly at ease with the strain on the military. Only thing to fear and all that.

Siiiiiigh. You know why the military wasn't strained during WW2?

Because we had a draft, and every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

There is no WAY today's Americans would consider even a fraction of the efforts our grandparents did! Rationing meat? Not driving? Planting a garden?

Please. You can't even get Americans to recycle, and you think the types of civil orders put in place in the 1940's would fly?

Don't be stupid.

Uh, the military was terribly strained during WWII. People deserted, people fragged officers, there were ridiculous supply shortages, and the equipment was for shiat. The press was not permitted to report on any of that, and we won the war, and that's why no one remembers or cares that the military was strained to the breaking point.

cameroncrazy1984: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar.

If past performance is any indication, he is.

I missed the part where he lied before.

Oh STFU Pelosi.

what_now: sheeple

Anyone else agree with me that anyone who uses the word "sheeple" is probably not the people who should be trusted to have an unbiased point of view (and, coincidentally, is probably a 9/11 troofer?)

what_now: every single American sacrificed for the war effort.

My point exactly. Mr. Skelton was engaging in just a wee bit of hyperbole there, IMO. The military situation in Iraq is not "like never before." Not even close.

KaponoFor3: probably not the people

Probably not the person, that is.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: You act like he has control over everything in the military! You really think he has control over the medical treatment of returning troops?

No, but if he gets pissed at someone asking him to tell the truth, but lets systematic neglect of his fellow soldiers slide, then I see that as a problem.

If they really cared about what was going on these would be closed door sessions. That way they could ask question that could not (should not) be disclosed to the public. But then they would not have all those lovely tv cameras to pose for.

They had that. It was a bipartisan effort called The Iraq Study Group. These clowns completely ignored it. If it takes public pressure to end the war, then I don't care if there's a million cameras.

And honestly, after all the staged things that have happened surrounding this war, from the flight-suit landing to the toppling of Saddam's statue, it's a public hearing with cameras that gets your hackles up? Really?

filth: I missed the part where he lied before.

Really? The whole "the surge is working" thing? You still believe that? The whole "we only counted certain casualties in our charts to make them look smaller" thing? Do you pay attention at ALL?

KaponoFor3: Anyone else agree with me that anyone who uses the word "sheeple" is probably not the people who should be trusted to have an unbiased point of view (and, coincidentally, is probably a 9/11 troofer?)

AHHH!! I am not a troofer! That's just mean!

You can use sheeple for many different things. In this case, it the Toby Keiths of the world who called me a traitor for having doubts about invading Iraq, and criticized John Kerry for daring to run against Glorious Leader.

The cult of personality around Bush was breathtaking for a few years. You cannot forget it, just because now he's a joke. He was ALWAYS a joke, but he was one who fooled a lot of people for a long time.

FilthI missed the part where he lied before.

Remember the bit when his lips were moving? That was it.

what_now: Jubeebee: To be fair, if there was a threat today that equaled Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan,

Ha! You didn't pay attention in 2002-2005, when we were being told that if we didn't fight in Iraq, we would all be forced to wear burkhas and recite the Koran in a few years?

The threat is NOT real, but the powers that be tried their damnedest to make the sheeple think it was.

Not everyone believed that pitch. The clue was when Cheney said, "Iraq is going to kill our men and enslave our womenfolk if we don't act now!" and then in the same breath said we could crush their military in six days.

what_now: Glorious Leader.

I left that one out too -- those people who use "sheeple" are also the type of people who use the phraseology "Glorious Leader", despite the fact that I have actually never seen a Bush supporter call him our Glorious Leader. Oddly enough, it's always those people who hate Bush who call him "Glorious Leader"

what_now: The cult of personality around Bush was breathtaking for a few years

If you think that was breathtaking, wait till you see what happens when President Obama takes office.

cameroncrazy1984: filth: I missed the part where he lied before.

Really? The whole "the surge is working" thing? You still believe that? The whole "we only counted certain casualties in our charts to make them look smaller" thing? Do you pay attention at ALL?

What he said was that they were having some military success but that the political and social efforts were lagging. It's a strange fiction to say he painted a rosy picture. I seem to recall a specific warning he gave that the political issues could scuttle all the progress made so far.

Here's a question: are things in Iraq better or worse since Petraeus took over?

filth: Here's a question: are things in Iraq better or worse since Petraeus took over?

Neither. We're still there, they're still killing us and Iraqis are still without any kind of real freedom.

filth: Here's a question: are things in Iraq better or worse since Petraeus took over?

You're begging the question somewhat. Whether or not you apply lipstick to the pig, it's still a pig.

I can't get on board with this idea that "well, whether or not it was right to in, we're there now." Yes, clearly we need to deal with this mess we created. But the key to getting out of it with some modicum of order is truly understanding how and why we really got in there in the first place. We can't divorce the exit from the entrance.

I do have some sympathy for Gen. Petraeus, but it has its limits. He has a highly thankless role. But I have no doubt he's towing the line for the Administration. All the evidence you need is that he's still in the job. If he weren't towing the line, Bush would have cast him aside long ago.

KaponoFor3: I left that one out too -- those people who use "sheeple" are also the type of people who use the phraseology "Glorious Leader", despite the fact that I have actually never seen a Bush supporter call him our Glorious Leader. Oddly enough, it's always those people who hate Bush who call him "Glorious Leader"

It's hyperbole to make a point. If you really don't think people went nuts over him, go to the free republic "Pray for President Bush thread" and check out the comments. Or watch "Jesus Camp", where children kneel and pray to a cardboard cutout of him.

Nice one subby...

All you hippy Liberals can take a walk...

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Man, I feel sorry for Petraeus. Here he is doing a very difficult job very well half way across the planet and before he sets foot on American soil he is being called a liar. That man has a level of self control that is damn near super human. How do you see the casualty reports every day, see what has been bought with that blood, and then come back here and see some harpies demean that sacrifice. I'm surprised the man has not snapped yet.

He is a lying sack of shiat and has made America less safe.

What good news. You mean how the Iraqi army tried to quell the insurgency in Basra and it didn't really work? or the fact that bombs are still going off in crowded markets and at pilgrimages? Baghdad still doesn't have much electricity or water. Iraq still isn't producing oil. The Green Zone is still being shelled.

so where is the good news?

cameroncrazy1984: filth: Here's a question: are things in Iraq better or worse since Petraeus took over?

Neither. We're still there, they're still killing us and Iraqis are still without any kind of real freedom.

listen, if you're going to keep insisting on judging this thing by objective measures of success, we're never going to win. why don't you support the troops?

Petraeus is being asked to do the impossible. He is doing the best he can and I am proud and humbled by the great job that we are doing over there.

That being said, we need to broker some kind of political deal with the Iraqis, Iranians, Kurds, Turks and whoever else so that we can leave.

vernonFL:

That being said, we need to broker some kind of political deal with the Iraqis, Iranians, Kurds, Turks and whoever else so that we can leave.

FTFY

Of course I love you, Doctor Funkenstein, like I love Fresca!

Sun God: I have Petraeus's book. The Counterinsurgency Field Manual. It's quite interesting. I recommend it.

It's not his book. He just wrote the foreword.

Wouldn't it be faster for her to stick her fingers in her ears and go LA LA LA LA LA LA LA .....?

tag taking a break I guess...

From an election standpoint it is in their best interest to have the war going badly. The worse it appears to be going the more people will vote based on that issue.

Just got done chatting with my friend on yahoo IM, who is Iraq rigth now, doing neighborhood patrols and whatnot. He said the shiat we hear on the news isn't even close to what is going on over there, its not as bad as they say it is. He's lower enlisted, and has nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, and he isn't censoring up the stories so I'll think he is OK, I'm a vet so he isn't going bullshiat me. Im going to take his word over any journalist with an agenda, and Pelosi can rot in a special place in hell.