good.

Good.

Aren't we interfering with Darwin by doing this?

I have a big problem with how social services removes kids from parents and refuses to return them, for all sorts of stupid reasons, like the woman member of the Church of the SubGenius who had her kids removed for participating in a church event.

But when there is a physical danger to the kids, like this, or the other IDiots that believe in prayer over medical science, this is a good thing.

probably a good thing since the parents will most likely be going to jail.

Thus insuring the inevitable lawsuit over their freedom of religion rights.

There's no win anywhere in this story.

Good.

Glad that social services actually does their job there.

In Idaho, all they do is document.

Wanebo: Thus insuring the inevitable lawsuit over their freedom of religion rights.

There's no win anywhere in this story.

The parents will lose. This has been litigated before.

DamnYankees: The parents will lose. This has been litigated before.

Now that I've RTFA I see that the kids are staying with relatives voluntarily. The haven't been removed by SS.

And does anyone realize that it is codified in the Wisconsin constitution and statutes that parents, reasonably believing that prayer can restore a child's health, cannot be charged with abuse or the death of their own child?

Wanebo: And does anyone realize that it is codified in the Wisconsin constitution and statutes that parents, reasonably believing that prayer can restore a child's health, cannot be charged with abuse or the death of their own child?

Jesus.

Freedom of religion doesn't apply when children are involved?

SpeshilEdjukashin: Freedom of religion doesn't apply when causing the death of children is involved?

FTFY.

DamnYankees:
Jesus.

That's the problem.

/Good.

DamnYankees: Jesus.

Or FSM. Doesn't matter.

/Foster parent to 2 children that WI SS has involuntarily removed from their mother's home.

So... is their faith shaken, or are they going with the "It must have been God's will to take our daughter even though, in hindsight, she could have easily been saved with modern medicine and it was our faith in God that directly lead to her death" line of reasoning?

mamoru: So... is their faith shaken, or are they going with the "It must have been God's will to take our daughter even though, in hindsight, she could have easily been saved with modern medicine and it was our faith in God that directly lead to her death" line of reasoning?

I'm gonna bet #2.

I don't understand why these people can't consider that maybe their god gave them the doctors to help their sick kids.

mamoru: is their faith shaken, or are they going with the "It must have been God's will to take our daughter

The latter. Have said since that if it was her time, God would have taken her no matter what.

Wanebo: And does anyone realize that it is codified in the Wisconsin constitution and statutes that parents, reasonably believing that prayer can restore a child's health, cannot be charged with abuse or the death of their own child?

Link or it didn't happen.

DamnYankees: mamoru: So... is their faith shaken, or are they going with the "It must have been God's will to take our daughter even though, in hindsight, she could have easily been saved with modern medicine and it was our faith in God that directly lead to her death" line of reasoning?

I'm gonna bet #2.

Also gonna go with 2.

/Good for the surviving kids.
//parents in this case need to DIAF slowly

I don't think anyone would dispute that for the parents to believe in prayer is an inalienable right, and works fine for them. The children haven't the ability to make that decision, therefore the state must protect them from the witchcraft of the parents. Frankly, I think that teaching children any religion is child abuse.

Wanebo: The latter. Have said since that if it was her time, God would have taken her no matter what.

I find that kind of dodging of responsibility disgusting. Would any religious people care to defend this?

mamoru: I find that kind of dodging of responsibility disgusting. Would any religious people care to defend this?

I think most religious people would defend it. It's a very common belief.

DamnYankees: I think most religious people would defend it. It's a very common belief.

I mean in this specific case. It is quite obvious that the parents own decision (to pray rather than seek help) lead directly to the death of their daughter. They duck this responsibility by saying "Well, it would have been God's will no matter what."

That is disgusting.

Even if you are religious, surely there should still be a bit of that "God helps he who helps himself" action in there, shouldn't there?

"There is no physical evidence of abuse or neglect,"

Other than the dead girl, no, none at all.

I can't understand people who think medicine and prayer are mutually exclusive, when I go to the doctor they don't have a sign next to the 'No smoking' saying 'Medicine in use : no praying'

Wanebo: King Something:


State statute 948.03(6) provides an exemption from the law against failing to act to protect children from bodily harm for what is referred to as "Treatment through prayer." The statute says: "A person is not guilty of an offense under this section solely because he or she provides a child with treatment by spiritual means through prayer alone for healing in accordance with the religious method of healing ... in lieu of medical or surgical treatment."

Okay.

/stupid puritans.

ulwais [TotalFark] Quote 2008-03-30 11:04:35 AM
"There is no physical evidence of abuse or neglect,"

Other than the dead girl, no, none at all.

I can't understand people who think medicine and prayer are mutually exclusive, when I go to the doctor they don't have a sign next to the 'No smoking' saying 'Medicine in use : no praying'

Well see. Doctors went to college, are mixed up with those scientists, and probably have performed abortions. Why would you risk your faith to one of those liberals? And Doctors all drive nice cars, use big words, probably came from a big town someplace, like a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah.

mamoru: DamnYankees: I think most religious people would defend it. It's a very common belief.

I mean in this specific case. It is quite obvious that the parents own decision (to pray rather than seek help) lead directly to the death of their daughter. They duck this responsibility by saying "Well, it would have been God's will no matter what."

That is disgusting.

Even if you are religious, surely there should still be a bit of that "God helps he who helps himself" action in there, shouldn't there?

Well, no religion defends another one. So I would think most Jews, Muslims, and other types of Xians would not defend it. But I would bet you many would defend it if this was a doctrine of their own religion.

A flood came and a man had to climb onto the roof of his house. As the waters rose a neighbor in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof, "the Lord will save me." Then a firefighter appeared in a speedboat. "Climb in!" shouted the firefighter. "No," replied the man on the roof, "The Lord will save me." A helicopter appeared and the pilot shouted that he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof, "the Lord will save me." Eventually the man drowned and went to heaven, where he asked God why He hadn't helped him. "I sent a neighbor, a firefighter, and helicopter," said God. "What more do you want?"

I'm a Christian and I approve of this move

God took the little girl because "it was her time."

JoeBagadonutz: I think that teaching children any religion is child abuse.

This x100
/Father myself and will let my daughter decide when she is ready what if any religion she wants to follow

Epiphany: I'm a Christian and I approve of this move

Ditto.

/Cloyster

I came to say good as well.

As much as I dislike a lot of religious ideas and values, this isn't religion. This is insanity. These people definitely are not fit to be parents, nor are they fit to lead normal lives.

I'd like to see those parents get ebola and see them try to pray themselves better.

DD0: I came to say good as well.

As much as I dislike a lot of religious ideas and values, this isn't religion. This is insanity. These people definitely are not fit to be parents, nor are they fit to lead normal lives.

Ditto and good

step 2: declare all religious people unfit to be parents. take their kids. lick their tears. free society from the tyranny of unreason.

Oh come on, do we really need two of these threads in the same day?

What a waste.

Jesus needs to perform a miracle and sterilize these parents and make sure no more kids are put in danger in the future.

"Freedom of Religion"
VS.
"Nanny Government" (It's for the children!)

Aside from my thinking the parents are dipshiats...

The real tragedy here is that no one has mentioned that we are on deck for e DIABEETUS trifecta here people!

Yeah, this ain't religion, it's just nutters.

DamnYankees: mamoru: I find that kind of dodging of responsibility disgusting. Would any religious people care to defend this?

I think most religious people would defend it. It's a very common belief.

I think if you were to talk to some people who are religious but not insane or a Christian Scientist, you would find this is very much not the case.

/christian, like 90% of the local population
//sends kids to the doctor when they get sick, like 90% of the local population
///can't promise I'm not insane, though.

An excellent answer to those who ask "What harm can come from religious belief". I'll file this one away.

And what is most shocking about a situation like this is the death will have no impact on their religious beliefs. How much more evidence do you need that your god isn't there than praying to save your child and receiving nothing. Why would you want to pray to a god who would let that happen?

Most likely they'll say it was 'her time' or some other stupid comment to justify the tragedy.

skinink: I think the article and that voodooo picture on the left has more in common than the webmaster suspected.

I thought that WAS the family in question at first glance. Then I read the article, and realized it was in AMERICA that the craziness was happening.

Day-um.

aimtastic: I don't understand why these people can't consider that maybe their god gave them the doctors to help their sick kids.

I came here to say this...

"God helps those who help themselves."

Better living through chemistry!

/suspects floride sapped and impurified parents precious bodily fluids
//cannot stand idly by
///commies!
////Slashies!

apparently the parents don't belong to a church