so he is capable of looking beyond party rhetoric and finding what worked out for us? cool.

george h.w. bush was a mediocre president, but he did execute desert storm really effectively and efficiently, with the blessing and help of the world community.

Awesome.

Does he plan on laying wreaths on the graves of Waffen SS officers too?

I'm so glad we're going to have a President that cares less about winning party brownie points than he does improving our country both foreignly and domestically.

Yes, I implied he will win.

He really is going to win. :D

We start bombing the Russians in five minutes.

JohnnyC: Yes, I implied he will win.

He really is going to win. :D

pretty much. hillary is just circling the drain, and mccain just doesn't know what he's talking about half the time and is too honest to pretend like he does.

FTA: At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush - father of the president - for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.

I totally agree. We have to transcend this silly-assed "if you're not on my team, no good can be said of you" sentiment to which subby apparently (at least partially) subscribes. I vote Democratic and am always getting painted as a liberal. However, I think #40 and #41 were pretty damn good presidents. I supported HW Bush over Clinton in 1992. I also like Michael Bloomberg. I think McCain is pretty decent too (but that doesn't mean I'll vote for him).

So we're going to fund Central American death squads again? Cool!

/Actually what he's proposing sounds good

ZOMG!!! He wants to be another Bush!

Who's Ronald Regan?

cameroncrazy1984: Who's Ronald Regan?

Well...

At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush - father of the president - for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.


How horrible.

Sir Roderick Glossop: FTA: At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush - father of the president - for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.

I totally agree. We have to transcend this silly-assed "if you're not on my team, no good can be said of you" sentiment to which subby apparently (at least partially) subscribes.

This. Just because you praise one thing a president did, it doesn't mean you endorse every action and position they took during their entire term. I heartily approve of the EPA, and trade with China - that doesn't make me a Nixon supporter.

Like a lot of people, when the current war started, I didn't support the decision, but I thought that it would at least be quick. Who knew the apple would fall so far from the tree with this Bush. Whether or not to invade was controversial, the incompetence and bungling that followed was not. Obama is right - the next president may well have to fight another war, it's not something we can entirely control, but HOW we go about it is another matter.

Interesting position. Sounds rather ominous, though.

I mean, better than Hillary biting out the throats from eight year old snipers, but I thought W. Clinton and the US forces did a much-needed job in the former Yugoslavia.

McCain... not sure. He's been a bit inconsistent, and I don't like his torture stance.

It's a shame Nancy is such a sweet lady, because she needs to start biatch slapping people on both sides who falsely align themselves with Ronaldus Magnus.

To tell you the truth, if Obama pulled his healthcare crap out of his policy platform, I'd probably vote for him in the general. Before you start espousing how much we need healthcare and how even poor people deserve health care, remember this: I voted RP in the primary.

In other words, you're not going to change my mind on that issue. Feel free to flame on if it makes you feel better though.

sarcastrophe: I'd probably vote consider voting for him

Fixed for accuracy

sarcastrophe: To tell you the truth, if Obama pulled his healthcare crap out of his policy platform, I'd probably vote for him in the general.

To be fair, a President has no ability to implement health care reform. They can set policy, and propose bills, but they can't wave the wand to make their vision a reality.

If he gets the Dem nomination, I'll vote for him in the general, but I'll also try and toss my other Federal votes towards the Republicans (I also try and vote against the incumbent in elections, and my state is pretty Republican).

An Obama presidency with a balanced Congress with no clear majority strikes me as a good situation.

PartTimeBuddha: Interesting position. Sounds rather ominous, though.

It's a bit long, but here's a very good look at what Obama's foreign policy approach actually is. The Obama Doctrine.

It's neither Hawkish nor Dovish, and it isn't just a kneejerk response to Bush foreign policy like the dems have too often fallen into. More than just "not bush" - it's a cohesive approach at defining Americas future military relations to the world.

t3knomanser: To be fair, a President has no ability to implement health care reform. They can set policy, and propose bills, but they can't wave the wand to make their vision a reality.

Yeah. I'm well aware. But we have a Dem controlled congress at the moment, so I don't think that's going to see much oppostion.

If he gets the Dem nomination, I'll vote for him in the general, but I'll also try and toss my other Federal votes towards the Republicans (I also try and vote against the incumbent in elections, and my state is pretty Republican).

I'm not as optimistic, but the Republican party is so screwed up, I can't see how they're going to actually gain Congressional ground in this election.

An Obama presidency with a balanced Congress with no clear majority strikes me as a good situation.

That would be awesome. I just don't see it happening.

Is he going to use the CIA to sell cocaine to American kids to fund a South American rebellion?

sarcastrophe: To tell you the truth, if Obama pulled his healthcare crap out of his policy platform, I'd probably vote for him in the general. Before you start espousing how much we need healthcare and how even poor people deserve health care, remember this: I voted RP in the primary.

In other words, you're not going to change my mind on that issue. Feel free to flame on if it makes you feel better though.

Gotta love one issue voters.

Sabyen91: Gotta love one issue voters.

I'm not a one issue voter at all. You missed the point entirely.

He is the most Reaganesque when it comes to foreign policy. Reagan, if you remember, wanted to TALK with our enemies.

I've got no love for Reagan, but even I'll admit he was damned good when it came to foreign policy. Hell, even the Nicaraguan death-squads, while inherently wrong on every moral level, were a necessary evil at the time.

His domestic policy, however, was schitt.

Sabyen91: sarcastrophe: To tell you the truth, if Obama pulled his healthcare crap out of his policy platform, I'd probably vote for him in the general. Before you start espousing how much we need healthcare and how even poor people deserve health care, remember this: I voted RP in the primary.

In other words, you're not going to change my mind on that issue. Feel free to flame on if it makes you feel better though.

Gotta love one issue voters.

Don't mind him. He's voting Toaster Oven.

BKITU: Don't mind him. He's voting Toaster Oven.

Yeah.... and who are you voting for, asshat? Parking Meter? Honkbag? Don't tell me you still want LAMP of all people!!

sarcastrophe: To tell you the truth, if Obama pulled his healthcare crap out of his policy platform, I'd probably vote for him in the general. Before you start espousing how much we need healthcare and how even poor people deserve health care, remember this: I voted RP in the primary.

In other words, you're not going to change my mind on that issue. Feel free to flame on if it makes you feel better though.

Well, at least you're up front about it. In a way, I kinda sympathize with you.

Everybody's more or less made up their mind how they're going to vote this year, and those who haven't are, frankly, the biggest idiots in the world.

burndtdan: george h.w. bush was a mediocre president, but he did execute desert storm really effectively and efficiently, with the blessing and help of the world community.

You should ask the Iraqis, specifically, the ones who were encouraged to rebel against Hussein, and then were abandoned at the behest of the U.N., how effective his execution was.

In reality, the brutal execution of all those rebellious Iraqis was the only successful by-product of GHWB

Sir Roderick Glossop: I think McCain is pretty decent too (but that doesn't mean I'll vote for him).

As a Democrat and a pretty left-leaning guy, I describe my attitude towards McCain as this;

"I salute you, soldier, but I ain't letting your ass NEAR the button!"

sarcastrophe: BKITU: Don't mind him. He's voting Toaster Oven.

Yeah.... and who are you voting for, asshat? Parking Meter? Honkbag? Don't tell me you still want LAMP of all people!!

I love Lamp.

I can't forgive Waffle Maker settling for the Veep spot. =(

BKITU: I love Lamp.

I can't forgive Waffle Maker settling for the Veep spot. =(

You're a fool. Lamp is the Fred Thompson of the Applicance Party.

sarcastrophe: Sabyen91: Gotta love one issue voters.

I'm not a one issue voter at all. You missed the point entirely.

My point is, who else do you vote for on the healthcare situation. Do you like the Republicans' stand where Big Pharma and HMO lobbies write policy for it? Hillary, who would garnish the wages of the poor to make sure they were on the roles (more pro-corp garbage). Obama's plan is not perfect for either of us (I don't think it goes far enough and you think it goes too far) but at least he is open to taking a good look at it and proposing intelligent fixes without bowing to the pressure of lobbyists. If the healthcare issue is why you wouldn't vote for him...I think you would just be looking for a reason not to.

sarcastrophe: BKITU: I love Lamp.

I can't forgive Waffle Maker settling for the Veep spot. =(

You're a fool. Lamp is the Fred Thompson of the Applicance Party.

Lazy freaking Lamp!

REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN OHHHHHHHHHH REAGAN YEAHH!

/cig

Donald_McRonald: cameroncrazy1984: Who's Ronald Regan?

Well...

Awesome.

Sabyen91: If the healthcare issue is why you wouldn't vote for him...I think you would just be looking for a reason not to.

Nailed it.

Of course, you're not going to get him to admit that, especially if he hasn't admitted it to himself.

Tabatha Static: Awesome.



I figured someone would post that. Hell, farking France retaliated after that. Ronnie didn't.

thalidomide new and improved: burndtdan: george h.w. bush was a mediocre president, but he did execute desert storm really effectively and efficiently, with the blessing and help of the world community.

You should ask the Iraqis, specifically, the ones who were encouraged to rebel against Hussein, and then were abandoned at the behest of the U.N., how effective his execution was.

In reality, the brutal execution of all those rebellious Iraqis was the only successful by-product of GHWB

Iraq has been a mess for the U.S. for a while. President Kennedy backed a coup against the government of Iraq that brought the Baath Party into power. We just play the peoples over there against each other and it is really biting us in the backside now.

Sabyen91: My point is, who else do you vote for on the healthcare situation. Do you like the Republicans' stand where Big Pharma and HMO lobbies write policy for it? Hillary, who would garnish the wages of the poor to make sure they were on the roles (more pro-corp garbage). Obama's plan is not perfect for either of us (I don't think it goes far enough and you think it goes too far) but at least he is open to taking a good look at it and proposing intelligent fixes without bowing to the pressure of lobbyists. If the healthcare issue is why you wouldn't vote for him...I think you would just be looking for a reason not to.

None of the above. I simply do not trust the government with my healthcare decisions. If the republican's have it so wrong, why are most big business healthcare providers supporting democrats? Either way, none of the candidates has a decent solution. We have the greatest healthcare system in the world... if you can afford it. The reason you can't afford it is because of the massive amounts of legislation put on the industry. Adding more legislation to an overregulated industry will not solve a problem. Of course, that's all my opinion, and again, you're not going to change it.

Relatively Obscure: Donald_McRonald: cameroncrazy1984: Who's Ronald Regan?

Well...

Awesome.

I don't get it.

/is this one of those obscure allusions that I never understand?

sarcastrophe: Sabyen91: My point is, who else do you vote for on the healthcare situation. Do you like the Republicans' stand where Big Pharma and HMO lobbies write policy for it? Hillary, who would garnish the wages of the poor to make sure they were on the roles (more pro-corp garbage). Obama's plan is not perfect for either of us (I don't think it goes far enough and you think it goes too far) but at least he is open to taking a good look at it and proposing intelligent fixes without bowing to the pressure of lobbyists. If the healthcare issue is why you wouldn't vote for him...I think you would just be looking for a reason not to.

None of the above. I simply do not trust the government with my healthcare decisions. If the republican's have it so wrong, why are most big business healthcare providers supporting democrats? Either way, none of the candidates has a decent solution. We have the greatest healthcare system in the world... if you can afford it. The reason you can't afford it is because of the massive amounts of legislation put on the industry. Adding more legislation to an overregulated industry will not solve a problem. Of course, that's all my opinion, and again, you're not going to change it.

You do know that even those that have very good healthcare are getting farked by the HMOs too, right? HMOs pressure doctors into doing tests upon tests upon tests on those with good insurance. Unnecessary tests that drive up premiums. If you are going to put your trust in big business to do what it best for you and your health you are doing it wrong.

Digeratus: Relatively Obscure: Donald_McRonald: cameroncrazy1984: Who's Ronald Regan?

Well...

Awesome.

I don't get it.

/is this one of those obscure allusions that I never understand?

There you go again.

Remove all Republicans: To everyone who doubted my concerns about Obama and how he'll act in office, we're starting to see it. It looks like he'll readily sell himself out to the right as long as they help to keep his "unity" going. I'm just sorry to see it. This is why I love Hillary, she knows that the evils of the Republican policies and knows better than to work with them. Selling out your beliefs to make friends is always a terrible way to go.

Fail.

Sabyen91: You do know that even those that have very good healthcare are getting farked by the HMOs too, right? HMOs pressure doctors into doing tests upon tests upon tests on those with good insurance. Unnecessary tests that drive up premiums. If you are going to put your trust in big business to do what it best for you and your health you are doing it wrong.

So proxying the industry pressure through government to doctors is a better plan? That's short-sighted. Once it's legislation, it's not likely to change. Government change is slow. Private industry a little bit more nimble. These votes will be bought and paid for. Good intentions don't solve the problem.

Sabyen91: Digeratus: Relatively Obscure: Donald_McRonald: cameroncrazy1984: Who's Ronald Regan?

Well...

Awesome.

I don't get it.

/is this one of those obscure allusions that I never understand?

There you go again.

Also awesome!


Digeratus:

It's a personal mannerism often parodied by comedic Reagan impersonators.

Remove all Republicans: To everyone who doubted my concerns about Obama and how he'll act in office, we're starting to see it. It looks like he'll readily sell himself out to the right as long as they help to keep his "unity" going. I'm just sorry to see it. This is why I love Hillary, she knows that the evils of the Republican policies and knows better than to work with them. Selling out your beliefs to make friends is always a terrible way to go.

We've already had 7 years with a president who refuses to reach across the aisle. We don't need four more.

sarcastrophe: Sabyen91: You do know that even those that have very good healthcare are getting farked by the HMOs too, right? HMOs pressure doctors into doing tests upon tests upon tests on those with good insurance. Unnecessary tests that drive up premiums. If you are going to put your trust in big business to do what it best for you and your health you are doing it wrong.

So proxying the industry pressure through government to doctors is a better plan? That's short-sighted. Once it's legislation, it's not likely to change. Government change is slow. Private industry a little bit more nimble. These votes will be bought and paid for. Good intentions don't solve the problem.

Selfish intentions exacerbate the problem and that is all the Republicans are offering. Business can be more nimble but that doesn't mean it will ever change for the good. Profit and healthcare doesn't mix.

Sabyen91: Selfish intentions exacerbate the problem and that is all the Republicans are offering. Business can be more nimble but that doesn't mean it will ever change for the good. Profit and healthcare doesn't mix.

Profit and healthcare don't mix because the system is stacked against profit in the name of good intentions. Right now, we have the worst of both worlds.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Hell, even the Nicaraguan death-squads, while inherently wrong on every moral level, were a necessary evil at the time.

Why?

sarcastrophe: Profit and healthcare don't mix because the system is stacked against profit in the name of good intentions. Right now, we have the worst of both worlds.

Are you saying that, given a laissez-faire approach to health care law, it will never be a circumstance where taking care of the sick will be significantly unprofitable?

Actually I think Obama has pretty much aligned himself with W by claiming that Isalmic fundamentalism is the cause of all problems in the Mideast - Bush's justification for the misguided war in Iraq.