This was the Brits area of control, how many of them are still there and what are they doing?

Snowflake Tubbybottom: This was the Brits area of control, how many of them are still there and what are they doing?

They're at the airport, taking tea.

Nah, I'm sure the have CCT guys out in the field calling in air-support strikes. Would you trust the Iraqis to call in a fire mission? They'd probably kill themselves.

submitter: Iraqi Army aren't exactly ready to "stand up"

Certainly, no one could have seen this coming.

Word has it a lot of the national police forces in Basra is still loyal to Al Sadr...these guys are defecting and using Iraqi weapons against the national army. Link (new window)



This is not good news at all. The political areas of the surge failed and now it seems that the idea of building up the Iraqi army hasn't been happening quite as well as reported either. The only positive out of this is that so far the US army hasn't been involved. Apparantly we're losing that now, too. Goddamnit.

Shaggy_C: Word has it a lot of the national police forces in Basra is still loyal to Al Sadr...these guys are defecting and using Iraqi weapons against the national army.

would not surprise me in the slightest.

What annoys me is that we have done nothing to take out Sadr himself. You'd think they'd get the CIA in on it or something.

That, or maybe they figure that, even if he's an asshole, he's the asshole they know, and if they take him down, they'll just have chaos on their hands.


Which, by that logic, means that they never should have deposed Saddam in the first place.

... two days ago.

SilentStrider: What annoys me is that we have done nothing to take out Sadr himself. You'd think they'd get the CIA in on it or something.

That, or maybe they figure that, even if he's an asshole, he's the asshole they know, and if they take him down, they'll just have chaos on their hands.

Creating a martyr figure = not good. Remember, this is an Islamic nation we're talking about - they love martyrs. If we kill Sadr, everything that's happened so far will seem like a peaceful paradise - it will be an absolute shiatstorm.

Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

Don't infantry divisions stroll in and armoured divisions roll in?

/ Just sayin'

Shaggy from your link

But if the British taught the police to shoot straight, they failed to instil a sense of unwavering loyalty to the State.

Do you know who else wanted to instil a sense of unwavering loyalty to the state?

/read that and had to go there.

Gyrfalcon: Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

Because Dubya and Cheney might have actually had to report for duty then. As would everyone else. The troop ratios and cost wouldn't have made this the cheap, simple war we've come to know and love so well.

A question of etiquette:

How long am I supposed to act shocked and pretend everybody wasn't saying this is exactly what was going to happen?

Heard it best on Countdown, "They stand up, we stand down, they fall down".

Yes, but the Surge is working.

Gyrfalcon: Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

We spent billions upon billions of dollars to rebuild those countries. Basic necessities. We didn't do that for the Iraqis. We spend our money on security patrols and American bombing runs. Yeah, an occasional soccer field gets put up, but the vast majority of our money goes to running tanks around the cities. Postwar Germany? It was Jeeps with 2 American officers and a German politzei on board. Iraq? Tanks rolling up and down the streets. Hardly comparable.

Gyrfalcon: Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

guerilla warfare

not sure why some fo you pissed with the Iraqis, we're the ones over there blowing them to bits, methinks the asshat in this equatiom is the occupying force

Notabunny: How long am I supposed to act shocked and pretend everybody wasn't saying this is exactly what was going to happen?

Not everybody. Only America haters and bomb-throwing hate website and Frenchmen.

Overwhelmingly unsurprising. I'm sometimes, arguably, one of those "libs," but I always thought that letting al-Sadr go was a bad idea when we had him cornered. I thought it then, I continued to think it over the next couple years, and I still think so.

What annoys me is that we have done nothing to take out Sadr himself.

We've paid Sadr over three hundred million US dollars so far, if I remember correctly from the recent Frontline program. I think the agreement was that the cease-fire wasn't supposed to end until the day a Democratic president takes office.

The Brits stood down so we could stand up.

Gyrfalcon: Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

great idea. go sign up to go over there and help.

SilentStrider: What annoys me is that we have done nothing to take out Sadr himself.

Haha that worked great when we "took out" Saddam, didn't it? Let's do it again!!!

Killing people is not the solution to the problem. The solution is nation building.

I'm worried about an opponent (meaning Gore) who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence.

-GW Bush

All aboard the fail train.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting a add for a TV program called "DEA" in this thread.

American TV is hyping the idea that it would be cool for paramilitary organizations to run around shooting people in America. No doubt it will get great ratings.

But seriously folks, is that the kind of country you want to live in? One of the basic reasons we have failed so completely in Iraq is that we have lost contact with the ideals that made America strong - that political institutions that support open debate, liberty and justice for all etc etc.

Hobodeluxe: Gyrfalcon: Why o why don't we just go in and occupy the country properly like we did to Japan & Germany in WWII? It worked so much better.

great idea. go sign up to go over there and help.

Don't hold your breath.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: This was the Brits area of control, how many of them are still there and what are they doing?

They're gone.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: This was the Brits area of control, how many of them are still there and what are they doing?

Being blamed for this SNAFU by you, apparently.

Obviously the lack of peace in Iraq is caused by people failing to understand the explanations of the Fox wise men and displaying that failure on the internet.

Damn liberals, you know that your questioning of the President only emboldens the forces of evil but you keep doing it because you hate democracy.

The war would be a success if you would just stop hating America long enough to believe it is a success.

PirateFreedom: Obviously the lack of peace in Iraq is caused by people failing to understand the explanations of the Fox wise men and displaying that failure on the internet.

Damn liberals, you know that your questioning of the President only emboldens the forces of evil but you keep doing it because you hate democracy.

The war would be a success if you would just stop hating America long enough to believe it is a success.


So, in many ways, the Iraq War is a lot like Tinker Bell.

/I believe in the Surge! *clap clap clap*

ilambiquated: One of the basic reasons we have failed so completely in Iraq is that we have lost contact with the ideals that made America strong - that political institutions that support open debate, liberty and justice for all etc etc.

But...but...the Flag! Soaring eagles! Country jingo!
That's what America's about! Not that old parchment stuff!

Anyone who thinks the Iraqi army is going to be loyal to the puppet government installed by the U.S. is a potato head.

Shaggy_C: Word has it a lot of the national police forces in Basra is still loyal to Al Sadr...these guys are defecting and using Iraqi weapons against the national army. Link (new window)



This is not good news at all. The political areas of the surge failed and now it seems that the idea of building up the Iraqi army hasn't been happening quite as well as reported either. The only positive out of this is that so far the US army hasn't been involved. Apparantly we're losing that now, too. Goddamnit.

If your head won't explode at seeing a soldier post on Daily Kos

This is a very good first hand analysis of the situation today (new window)

Jacobin: Anyone who thinks the Iraqi army is going to be loyal to the puppet government installed by the U.S. is a potato head.

Prepare to meet Mr. Angry Eyes!

0Icky0: But...but...the Flag! Soaring eagles! Country jingo!
That's what America's about! Not that old parchment stuff!

What about lapel pins and magnetic ribbons?

Angy-eyed Mr. Potato head?

Snowflake Tubbybottom: This was the Brits area of control, how many of them are still there and what are they doing?

The Brits pulled out because the surge worked.

SilentStrider:
What annoys me is that we have done nothing to take out Sadr himself.

We had him trapped in a Mosque, one 500lb bomb away from death, and Bush let him go.

Wait until Hussein Obama is in charge of things.
If you think this is bad, wait until he disarms and withdraws the american troops.
If you think the iraqis are unable to stand up against terrorists and iranian militias like this, just wait until mister barak is in charge of things.

/Not trolling, just pointing out how much worse things would be if we were to have inexperienced leadership making all of the decisions for iraq. It may be bad now, but, it would be much worse if we let the wrong people take over the important decisions.


//really not looking forward to the Oprah presidency.

hillarymom44: Wait until Hussein Obama is in charge of things.
If you think this is bad, wait until he disarms and withdraws the american troops.
If you think the iraqis are unable to stand up against terrorists and iranian militias like this, just wait until mister barak is in charge of things.

/Not trolling, just pointing out how much worse things would be if we were to have inexperienced leadership making all of the decisions for iraq. It may be bad now, but, it would be much worse if we let the wrong people take over the important decisions.


//really not looking forward to the Oprah presidency.

You like that hideous witch who's also running, I presume.

PC LOAD LETTER: 0Icky0: But...but...the Flag! Soaring eagles! Country jingo!
That's what America's about! Not that old parchment stuff!

What about lapel pins and magnetic ribbons?

Yeah you're a tratior of you don't wear a lapel pin.

hillarymom44: Wait until Hussein Obama is in charge of things.
If you think this is bad, wait until he disarms and withdraws the american troops.
If you think the iraqis are unable to stand up against terrorists and iranian militias like this, just wait until mister barak is in charge of things.

/Not trolling, just pointing out how much worse things would be if we were to have inexperienced leadership making all of the decisions for iraq. It may be bad now, but, it would be much worse if we let the wrong people take over the important decisions.


//really not looking forward to the Oprah presidency.

You forgot to mention that he has no experience dodging sniper fire.

>> It turns out that the U.S. trained Iraqi Army aren't exactly ready to "stand up" and are getting their asses handed to them in Basra.

So they are about as good as the US military that couldn't win against the dirt poor Koreans, Vietnamese and now the rag tag insurgents.

none of this changes the fact that the global/american economy needs Iraqi oil. Their infighting and tomfoolery is insignificant compared to that no matter how loudly you scream about it.

"Defining Moment" is right - but they may not be defining Iraq the way Bush wants.

Gregory F. Stuart: Jesus, you and canyoneer are one-trick ponies.

When it comes to Iraq that is everything, arguing over the minutia such as if the Iraqis are "standing up" or not might be fun but it isnt going to cause any major policy changes even if you can show without a shadow of a doubt that we will always be doing the heavy lifting for the Iraqis when it comes to security.

Smoke 'em out of their holes!

/oh yeah that was Osama "still hanging out giving us the finger" Bin Laden

I hope Jenna and Barbara go and enlist today so they can share in their father's success.

hillarymom44: Wait until Hussein Obama is in charge of things.
If you think this is bad, wait until he disarms and withdraws the american troops.
If you think the iraqis are unable to stand up against terrorists and iranian militias like this, just wait until mister barak is in charge of things.

/Not trolling, just pointing out how much worse things would be if we were to have inexperienced leadership making all of the decisions for iraq. It may be bad now, but, it would be much worse if we let the wrong people take over the important decisions.


//really not looking forward to the Oprah presidency.

Sweet titty-farking Jesus - the witches from Hillaryis44.org are migrating over to Fark. I though I could smell cat piss.

Here ya go sweetheart, especially for you:









/Gobama!