From TFA:

"The Smashing Pumpkins are suing Virgin Records, saying the record label has illegally used their name and music in promotional deals that hurt the band's credibility with fans."

I'm pretty sure your last few albums hurt your credibility far more than your record label ever did, Billy.

And here I was hoping The Smashing Pumpkins would DIAF.

/hopes they lose case, lose all their money, are forced to work the late shift at Denny's. Where they belonged in the first place.

anal brazil men:
I'm pretty sure your last few albums hurt your credibility far more than your record label ever did, Billy.

I thought Machina I was pretty good. Zeitgeist isn't great, but it isn't a bad album. Both are a damn sight better than Zwan and his solo stuff.

Jubeebee: I thought Machina I was pretty good. Zeitgeist isn't great, but it isn't a bad album. Both are a damn sight better than Zwan and his solo stuff.

They pale in comparison to Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream. Adore wasn't that great, either. Sick Boy also has some insight into the matter.


Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Mark: Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shiate.

anal brazil men: I'm pretty sure your last few albums hurt your credibility far more than your record label ever did, Billy.

agreed.

anal brazil men: Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed

disagree. bowie and reed had it, lost it, got it again, lost it forever.

I can not get passed his voice. It just irritates me.

anal brazil men: It's shiate being Billy Corgan

They shouldn't have wasted their money on walk-in humidors.

Dear Mr. Corgan:

The release of four different versions of Zeitgeist, one for each mega retailer, each with a different bonus track, followed about six months later by a "Special Edition" version of Zeitgeist with three additional songs and a DVD did far more to damage your reputation than being involved in a Pepsi promotional giveaway. Kindly fark yourself with a rusty spoon.

anal brazil men: Jubeebee: I thought Machina I was pretty good. Zeitgeist isn't great, but it isn't a bad album. Both are a damn sight better than Zwan and his solo stuff.

They pale in comparison to Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream. Adore wasn't that great, either. Sick Boy also has some insight into the matter.


Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Mark: Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shiate.

ftw
/one of my favorite movie evar

mofomisfit: Dear Mr. Corgan:

The release of four different versions of Zeitgeist, one for each mega retailer, each with a different bonus track, followed about six months later by a "Special Edition" version of Zeitgeist with three additional songs and a DVD did far more to damage your reputation than being involved in a Pepsi promotional giveaway. Kindly fark yourself with a rusty spoon.

Well put, mofomisfit. I came in here to say the same thing.

Their credibility may have been hurt by the fact that their fans had to buy about 17 different albums to accumulate the additional bonus tracks for Zeitgeist. Strangely, they didn't complain about their label's marketing decisions when it generated additional album sales and revenue at the expense of loyal fans.

/I like the Pumpkins (although I haven't heard much of their new stuff), but I'm not a fan of this tactic

Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

mrEdude: Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

I beg to differ, Siamese dream and Picese Iscaraiot are fantastic.

Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

There were some good songs on that album, but overall I thought they tried a little too hard on it.

Siamese Dream however, from start to finish, was pretty damn good. I also think about three or four songs off of the Pisces Iscariot compilation not only should've made the cut onto SD, but kicked the living shiat out of almost everything on Mellon Collie and everything after.

smartypants: Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

There were some good songs on that album, but overall I thought they tried a little too hard on it.

Siamese Dream however, from start to finish, was pretty damn good. I also think about three or four songs off of the Pisces Iscariot compilation not only should've made the cut onto SD, but kicked the living shiat out of almost everything on Mellon Collie and everything after.

^^^This.

That's Ironical!

Ahh.
the article is laced with comical relief.



/lovesanythingBillyCorgantouches

PhiloeBedoe: They shouldn't have wasted their money on walk-in humidors.

Zing!

i just could never stand the over-orchestration on that siamese dream single, Disarm, so i didn't bother with the rest of the album.

maybe i'll download some of the other songs if you say its great

I'm not a reliable source on SP but didn't Corgan have a hand in the reworking of 'Number Of The Beast' used in the opening credits of the movie 'Spun'?

That alone should go far to secure his place in your heart, coupled with the fact that (I'm guessing) he is still a thorn in Courtney Love's side...

/likes 'Zero'.

Meh. I've liked all of Corgan's stuff.

If Virgin got them to sign the kind of contract most labels do, The Pumpkins haven't got a legal leg to stand on. It is the label's music to use as they see fit. Cash your royalty checks and shut up.

mrEdude: i just could never stand the over-orchestration on that siamese dream single, Disarm, so i didn't bother with the rest of the album.

maybe i'll download some of the other songs if you say its great

Disarm is easily the worst song on that album, I skip over it every time I have the CD in my car, which is at least once a month. I swear Siamese Dream is in the top 3 albums to come out of the 90's.

Disarm was their first big single, they over-produced it because they wanted a hit to get the band out of playing in clubs and into playing arenas -- that song plus the sucess of the 'grunge scene' got them there.

Also if you like anything on Siamese Dream there's a B-sides album called Picese Iscarot which if you put the two albums together is 100 times better than Mellon Collie -- and I really love Mellon Collie...

uncoveror: and shut up.

not one of his strong suits. he has to have something to complain about now that britney can hardly be blamed for anything.

...and people bag on Rush and Dream Theater....

Koggie: ...and people bag on Rush and Dream Theater....

yeah, because even though Smashing Pumpkins have sucked since 1996, Rush and Dream Theater have always sucked...

Billy Corgan should be thankful for a good farking after all those years (and albums) of constant masturbation.

Slu: Koggie: ...and people bag on Rush and Dream Theater....

yeah, because even though Smashing Pumpkins have sucked since 1996, Rush and Dream Theater have always sucked...

Wow. Came up with that one all by yourself, huh?

I like pretty much everything the Smashing Pumpkins did till they broke up, but Zwan was so lame I've lost all respect for Billy Corgan. Not to mention his vomitous book of poetry. I could pull out poems I wrote in 4th grade that were better examples of literature than his shiat. I completely passed on Zeitgeist and will never see them live out of principle.

That said, I even loved Adore and Machina. Those were some good albums. And Paz was so hot she almost made the Zwan show I saw not god awful.

/Pennies for sale

I considered purchasing Zeitgeist as I was thrilled at the prospect of new Smashing Pumpkins, despite my concerns that it would suck. How glad I am that I downloaed it weeks before its release. That CD made me want to rip my eardrums out. I would rather slide down a giant cheese grater into a pool of salt and lemon juice than have to listen to that again.

Zwan wasn't amazing, but they certainly aren't the worst thing I have ever heard. I personally thought The Future Embrace was pretty damn good. There are also some real gems on the unreleased CD of their greatest hits. But, honestly, Zeitgeist dropped the ball bigtime. The reason Smashing Pumpkins are a household name is because they captured the angst of disenchanted youth around the Mellon Collie years with their more raw sounding songs (Bullet and Zero), and the direction Billy Corgan went after that diverged quite a bit. Zeigeist lacks energy and the vocals just don't seem to fit very well with the music to me. I think Corgan can definitely make some more good music, he just needs to strike the right chord with his audience.

Millzners: Disarm is easily the worst song on that album



Disarm is the embodiment of all of SP's worst quality. It was the first song I had heard by them and I didn't understand the hype. Thankfully, songs like Cherub Rock were also out there.

It's a shame that Disarm was more or less the direction they went afterwards.

n3philim: I considered purchasing Zeitgeist as I was thrilled at the prospect of new Smashing Pumpkins, despite my concerns that it would suck. How glad I am that I downloaed it weeks before its release. That CD made me want to rip my eardrums out. I would rather slide down a giant cheese grater into a pool of salt and lemon juice than have to listen to that again.

Zwan wasn't amazing, but they certainly aren't the worst thing I have ever heard. I personally thought The Future Embrace was pretty damn good. There are also some real gems on the unreleased CD of their greatest hits. But, honestly, Zeitgeist dropped the ball bigtime. The reason Smashing Pumpkins are a household name is because they captured the angst of disenchanted youth around the Mellon Collie years with their more raw sounding songs (Bullet and Zero), and the direction Billy Corgan went after that diverged quite a bit. Zeigeist lacks energy and the vocals just don't seem to fit very well with the music to me. I think Corgan can definitely make some more good music, he just needs to strike the right chord with his audience.

If you want to know why Zeitgeist sounds like crap and Billy's vocals don't sit in the mix look no further than the production credits: Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin. Note to Billy and Jimmy: stick to what you're good at.

Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie had some of the best producers in the business: Flood, Butch Vig, and Allan Moulder... They were half the reason those records sounded so good, the other half was Billy and Jimmy's playing.

anal brazil men: From TFA:

"The Smashing Pumpkins are suing Virgin Records, saying the record label has illegally used their name and music in promotional deals that hurt the band's credibility with fans."

I'm pretty sure your last few albums hurt your credibility far more than your record label ever did, Billy.

That and farking Courtney Love.

I don't know why everybody keeps ragging on Zeitgeist. It's not a bad album. It has it's downfalls but it's certainly better than Machina.

/Machina II is better than Machina.
//Adore is very under rated.

Millzners: If you want to know why Zeitgeist sounds like crap and Billy's vocals don't sit in the mix look no further than the production credits: Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin. Note to Billy and Jimmy: stick to what you're good at.

Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie had some of the best producers in the business: Flood, Butch Vig, and Allan Moulder... They were half the reason those records sounded so good, the other half was Billy and Jimmy's playing.

Zeitgeist also had Terry Date of thrilling bands like Pantera and Limp Bizkit fame, neither of which styles bring much to the strengths of Smashing Pumpkins.


//Adore is very under rated

Adore is a great CD, but not for being heavier 90's alternative, and if all you know of Smashing Pumpkins are 3 songs that were on the radio, I can understand why Adore gets such scathing reviews. A great CD all the way through though.

anal brazil men:
I'm pretty sure your last few albums hurt your credibility far more than your record label ever did, Billy.

Machina II was actually pretty good from what I remember. Too bad it's a download only but on the plus side it is free. It can be found here (pops)

/Cash Car Star is possibly my favorite SP song

smartypants: There were some good songs on that album, but overall I thought they tried a little too hard on it.

Siamese Dream however, from start to finish, was pretty damn good.

What is funny about this post is they recorded Gish in a very short period of time, and did it on the cheap, quick takes, etc. In contrast, Siamese Dream was an album which Billy and Butch Vig would spend several 16 hour days perfecting a single 45 second track. Some songs were 100 tracks compressed down. On top of that, it was $250,000 over budget, late and Billy took control to an obsessive point (surprise!).

Seriously, though. Siamese Dream was a shining example of "trying too hard."


siva: will never see them live out of principle.

You are really missing out. They are one of the best live performances happening today. Great light show, great power, and solid from start to finish.

These guys suck so bad.

Gish and some of the compilation called Pisces Iscariot are about all I can stand from them.


When "Cherub Rock" was the first single from Siamese Dream I had hoped the whole record would be like that. I was disappointed.
I had hoped they would remain like Gish for at least 2 more records before selling out.


"Rocket" was ok in a cheesy kinda way.

The Ghost of Freedom

Thanks for sticking up for "Adore" it's underrated and quite good. After a while I just let the comments go. It's like "The Final Cut" with some Pink Floyd fans, they're just never gonna like it no matter what.

/Not Now John aside, what a hideous song

Also being sought:

Millzners: mrEdude: Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

I beg to differ, Siamese dream and Picese Iscaraiot are fantastic.

As a former huge Smashing Pumpkins fan (come on, I was in 5th or 6th grade when Siamese Dream came out, and had never heard of Led Zeppelin), I must say that pisces iscariot is about the only CD I've bothered to retain, and I had every album.

Dude, the only virgin who farked over the Smashing Pumpkins is Billy Corgan.

/Self-important douche bag
//A few good albums, though
///I said a few

Kind of interesting how people are responding to this law suit. It's more about how people perceive Corgan and the Pumpkins coming back as opposed to the business aspect of it. True, I don't think they should have played the "Artistic integrity" card because I don't think it has anything to do with Virgin breaching their contract.....but they are well within their rights to sue. This is a band that has been notoriously shirty with who uses their back catalog, so it's no surprise that they are pissed with Virgin.

Ps. another point in how I think people are looking at this law suit through what they think of the band: no one had anything bad to say when Xiu Xiu and farked Up sued Rolling Stone and Camel for using their name for a tobacco promo.

ppss....Many bands have released multiple copies of the same album, that's generally what happens when you're on a major label these days. No one complained when Modest Mouse and Bloc Party released multiple versions of their albums.

/loves Smashing Pumpkins
/Thinks people rag on them too much
/met Billy Corgan, nice dude if you don't work for him.

ConnieLingus: Xiu Xiu and farked Up

i dont think ive seen either of those bands mentioned on fark before. well done.

No one complained when Modest Mouse and Bloc Party released multiple versions of their albums.

well, i kinda did, but that probably doesnt count. don't forgot the flaming lips!

Pumpkins rock, Billy rocks, and Zeitgeist is a friggin' great album.

I didn't complain about Modest Mouse because the special edition had an extra booklet. Whoo. The Flaming Lips "special edition" was a 5.1 mix of the album, substantially different than the whoring money grab Billy Corgan pulled last summer.

mrEdude: Smashing Pumpkins had one good album.
It was called Gish.

Millzners: I beg to differ, Siamese dream and Picese Iscaraiot are fantastic.

I loved Gish, liked Siamese Dream and Pisces Iscariot a lot, was mostly pleased with Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, threw Adore in the trash and then stopped giving Corgan my money.

i dont think ive seen either of those bands mentioned on fark before. well done.
thank you sir.

well, i kinda did, but that probably doesnt count. don't forgot the flaming lips!
I mention this only because SP were the ones who got completely slammed for it by Pfork and the like. It was pretty ridiculous.

threw Adore in the trash and then stopped giving Corgan my money.


you are seriously missing out. That is a great album.